Deer management draft proposal recently released by the DEC.

[G-Man]

There is no reason to go to a 1 buck limit... i pay for tags and most of the time they go unused. What are the satistics for people who fill both buck tags? Some people do not want to shoot doe and the state is trying to force you to do this. I'd rather see an earn a buck for the second buck tag than dropping it all together. Face it, it doesnt matter how big a buck is there is something special about antlers.....weather the tag gets filled or not it still a good feeling to have that chance in your pocket! Are the price of licences going to go down if there isnt a buck tag to go with them?

[growalot]

Here's what they did...rail roaded a lot of us into buying life time  licenses....we're talking several hundreds dollars...and now they are  sticking it to us...they already have 0ur money....

Many a year my buck tag goes unfilled and the only deer I see to kill are doe...I'm sorry but I am a meat hunter and it feeds us....Hereditary high cholesterol keeps deer meat as the DR recommended red meat for me to serve...we are not veggies and I get sick of chicken and fish thank you...

There are also many years I get a couple of buck and never a chance at a doe....I did not purchase a hunting license just to enjoy the out doors...I live here already...I bought it for the meat...period

[G-Man]

Just seems to me that the state is trying to woo the people who want trophy hunting to come to nys. Don't get me wrong i like to hunt for large racked bucks as much as anyone but, one buck limit/doe only/antler restrictions are what the hunting industry pushes for trophy animals. Maybe they should be paying my taxes. If i was polled i would want to see more mature deer, but they never ask at what cost?The polls are baised just by number of people asked and the way the questions are worded. Deep down i like to hunt for a buck(though it might not be big enough for my standards) no matter what season i'm hunting and i believe many others do too.  I am not willing to give up a tag for nothing!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I can't see how they are going to set this all up. I was going to buy  a lifetime this summer but I am ging to hold off until I see how this plays out

[fasteddie]

C'mon guys ! Spend the money and buy the licenses , etc .. I bought the LifeTime Sportsman's for $50 and my ML & Archery will be free this year . Someone has to put money in the pot !!!

[growalot]

heres a ? ...where is the fine print that says once you purchase you license the DEC can change what you hunt for...life time aside for a moment....

IE...say last year I bought a archery and a muzzle loader tag with my reg license...where did it say once purchased the DEC can change the rules and rescind the either or part of those archery/muzzle combo tags?...now yes before or after that season  but after the tag is purchased ?

Now if there is no such clause ...then they will I think have a legal stink to consider in a class action suit....... for many hunter purchased LIFETIME hunting licenses that stated they would receive said # of tags...for a said amount of money at the time of purchase

[wztirem]

heres a ? ...where is the fine print that says once you purchase you license the DEC can change what you hunt for...life time aside for a moment....

IE...say last year I bought a archery and a muzzle loader tag with my reg license...where did it say once purchased the DEC can change the rules and rescind the either or part of those archery/muzzle combo tags?...now yes before or after that season  but after the tag is purchased ?

Now if there is no such clause ...then they will I think have a legal stink to consider in a class action suit....... for many hunter purchased LIFETIME hunting licenses that stated they would receive said # of tags...for a said amount of money at the time of purchase

For attorneys chaos is cash.

I would tend to argue that a such a license being a privelege grants the DEC the power to  make any changes to the terms of the license as they see fit.

[growalot]

I don't believe that would be the case when they were purchased in good faith...but that could be decided in a court if it is not specifically stated

[wztirem]

You can be sure that the DEC has legal options and case law on their side. I did a quick google search to see if I could come up with the "terms and conditions" pertaining to the lifetime hunting license to no avail.

As far as changing the terms and conditions of a hunting license, the DEC could perhaps argue that changes in the terms and conditions are in the DEC/State's best interest in so much that they are needed to comply with their state mandate.

In any event, lets wait and see what happens before giving ourselves a case of "agita".

[covert]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/6099.html

Almost at the bottom of the page.

"Privileges

• 
   
• Lifetime license privileges are equal to those of annual license buyers."
  

  So it doesn't say "When you buy your Lifetime License you will get X number of tags", it says "When you buy your Lifetime License you will get whatever number of tags we decide to give out in any particular year".

[wztirem]

I saw that too. However, that is too generic. Along with the license their must be a litany of applicable terms and conditions.

[covert]

Don't recall getting anything like that when I bought mine?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Here's what they did...rail roaded a lot of us into buying life time  licenses....we're talking several hundreds dollars...and now they are  sticking it to us...they already have 0ur money....

Many a year my buck tag goes unfilled and the only deer I see to kill are doe...I'm sorry but I am a meat hunter and it feeds us....Hereditary high cholesterol keeps deer meat as the DR recommended red meat for me to serve...we are not veggies and I get sick of chicken and fish thank you...

There are also many years I get a couple of buck and never a chance at a doe....I did not purchase a hunting license just to enjoy the out doors...I live here already...I bought it for the meat...period

Well the state now says bend over and pay $10 for each doe you want to shoot! I find this crazy especially for the guys that buy a Super Sportsman or Lifetime hunting licence! When they started to charge the buyers of the SS to apply for a DMP I stopped getting them and just used the extra antlerless tag for bow/muzzleloader. I must not have been the only one to do this so now they are eliminating that tag! They are strong arming us into paying more and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. They are going to do whatever makes them the most money!

You dont pay $10 per DMP, you pay $10 and get how many ever DMPs you draw, which could be up to four. Before you go on a rant, you might want to get the facts straight about how you are being bent over. 

[Doc]

It is kind of interesting how the DEC is always acting like they are so concerned about the diminishing numbers of hunters and yet seem to be devising new ways everyday to screw the ones that they have left along with the future hunters that may be considering entering the sport. It all seems like some pretty short term thinking on their part unless they have just given up and now intend to get as much as they can, while they can.

[wztirem]

I'm not talking about the current DMP system. I'm talking about the proposed changes where all does will be tagged with a DMP. And it still dont change the fact that they now require guys who buy the Super Sportsman to pay for those DMP's when they used to be free. If you dont think they will start charging for each one or more than $10 then you better wake up!

I think this is a real concern considering the state of the economy. To date,our costs associated with the purchase of huting licnses has been a bargain.

Look at the cost of hunting licenses in CT and in other states. We are not immune from increased fees and the DEC has not definitively said that fees will remain constant.

The hunting community represents an untapped source of revenue for the state to draw from.

Get ready to pay more for the privelege to hunt.

[Doc]

Declining hunter numbers are not unique to NYS. It is a national problem. Perhaps other states have been a bit ahead of us in gouging sportsmen, but that does not justify NY following suit. It appears that our state is now intent on catching up and they know they can get away with it because we don't really voice our concerns in any kind of serious manner. The shrinking hunter population may just be indicating that a lot of hunters frustrated over these obvious attempts at taking advantage are becoming ex-hunters regardless of which state is doing the gouging.

However, license fees are only one part of hunter frustrations. Couple cranking up fees with a shopping list of additional regulations and items that in effect reduce hunter opportunities certainly and it's easy to see that there is nothing there that is going to increase participation or reduce the rate of shrinking hunter numbers. So one has to wonder if the DEC really cares about that sort of problem other than just providing lip-service.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm not talking about the current DMP system. I'm talking about the proposed changes where all does will be tagged with a DMP. And it still dont change the fact that they now require guys who buy the Super Sportsman to pay for those DMP's when they used to be free. If you dont think they will start charging for each one or more than $10 then you better wake up!

So you admittedly are guessing at what they will do, and going off on a rant about it? There is nothing in the plan that says or even implies that you would have to pay for each DMP. With their doing away with the either sex tags and going to a 1 buck policy, you will probably have the chance at x number of DMPs included with your license fee. Thats just my guess though, and I am not going to go off on a rant about my guess, Ill wait to see what they actually propose first.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm not talking about the current DMP system. I'm talking about the proposed changes where all does will be tagged with a DMP. And it still dont change the fact that they now require guys who buy the Super Sportsman to pay for those DMP's when they used to be free. If you dont think they will start charging for each one or more than $10 then you better wake up!

So you admittedly are guessing at what they will do, and going off on a rant about it? There is nothing in the plan that says or even implies that you would have to pay for each DMP. With their doing away with the either sex tags and going to a 1 buck policy, you will probably have the chance at x number of DMPs included with your license fee. Thats just my guess though, and I am not going to go off on a rant about my guess, Ill wait to see what they actually propose first.

My rant was about how they are constantly finding ways to make us pay more for less. Its a trend thats been going on for some time now so what makes you think it wont continue? Sorry for stating my opinion, I thought thats what these forums were for! I guess your opinion is the only one that counts.

And there you go assuming again, I never said your opinion didnt count. I am saying that it is not a fact, like you are acting like it is, and that DEC has not even insinuated to such a plan. None of us know or even have a good idea of what will happen based on fact at this point.

If you think the cost of hunting will or should never go up, your delusional. The cost of EVERYTHING will ALWAYS go up, thats just the way things go. The cost of hunting in NY has risen very slowly, and hopefully that slow rate continues.

[growalot]

No when you purchased a life time license the cost should NEVER go up.....that was the whole point of LIFE TIME licenses...was it not?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The costs were less years back but we had to pay for the doe tags then no matter what license you bought.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The cost of the licence is way up! I can go to Vermont and hunt as a non resident cheaper than a New York resident. I understand that the price of everything goes up but the NY hunter is really taking it on the chin. The whole point of the arguement is that hunters need to be proactive to make sure this dont happen. You always shoot down everynes opinions but never offer any real solutions yourself.

The cost was at what? $68 for Super Sportsman for how many years before it went up to where it is now? It has been going up at a very slow rate in comparison to anything else. Look at other states, WI is $165 for the equivalent to our Super Sportsman, look at IA and what their license costs add up to, how about Nebraska? More than ours. Im not going to go through every state's cost, but face it, we dont have it that bad in comparison to alot of other states. Sure you can cherry pick a couple that are lower, but what is the quality of the hunting in those states? How much publicly accessible state hunting land do they offer? There are many other factors to it as well.

Look, I dont like paying higher prices any more than anyone, Im a cheap bastard that is always looking to get a good deal on every single thing I buy, but I do realize that inflation is a fact of life.

Regardless, this is not the original point of what I said. Bottom line is, you got all worked up over your guess as to what might happen, and I wanted to set the record straight that it was only your guess, and not something that has been proposed by the DEC. There is enough misinformation going around about the proposal on this site, like for some reason, some seem to think they want to shrink the 500 foot limit for guns to 150 feet, when in fact, its just for bows, and that the DEC doesnt support expansion of the AR zones, when in fact, they are proposing it to be expanded. No matter how I feel about these things, the facts are what they are in the proposal. Debate the facts, not a guess at what could happen.

[Doc]

So what's the deal? Are we all supposed to cheer the fact that fees are going up? Are we supposed to be happy that NY is trying to weasel out of committments to life licenses? Are we supposed to be cheering for the fact that NYS is trying to emulate a few other states that are gouging the hell out of their sportsmen? I guess I don't understand all this rooting for trying to price and regulate hunters out of the sport. I happen to think that such things should be the absolute last resort, and that they should have their feet held to the fire until it is proven that all this crap is indeed the last resort. Until that happens, I feel justified in being a bit disturbed by what appears to be a DEC that is increasingly becoming more and more hostile toward sportsmen and women.

[wztirem]

One would hope that the fees would remain the same. But like many others I do not have a warm fuzzy feeling that this will happen.

Call me a pessimist but with the ways things are going with the States finances,I cannot see any reason why fees will not increase in consideration that the DEC is operating on austerity and their 5 year plan cannot be implemented with the funds at hand.

[wztirem]

In a nutshell, we do not trust them to maintain the present fee structure.

In all honesty, I believe the hunting fraternity represents another untapped resource for the State to collect revenue.

As a previous survey on this website showed, many would pay an increse in hunting fees.

Punch is correct, let the DEC know how we feel and WNY is also correct as to not get ones drawers in a bunch.

Perhaps, I as well as others are jumping the gun when it comes to the possibility of increased fees, but the times warrant such a concern and the DEC should be put on notice as to how we feel.

At months end we will know where we stand. Start saving your money. ???

[burmjohn]

Here's what they did...rail roaded a lot of us into buying life time  licenses....we're talking several hundreds dollars...and now they are  sticking it to us...they already have 0ur money....

Many a year my buck tag goes unfilled and the only deer I see to kill are doe...I'm sorry but I am a meat hunter and it feeds us....Hereditary high cholesterol keeps deer meat as the DR recommended red meat for me to serve...we are not veggies and I get sick of chicken and fish thank you...

There are also many years I get a couple of buck and never a chance at a doe....I did not purchase a hunting license just to enjoy the out doors...I live here already...I bought it for the meat...period

Well the state now says bend over and pay $10 for each doe you want to shoot! I find this crazy especially for the guys that buy a Super Sportsman or Lifetime hunting licence! When they started to charge the buyers of the SS to apply for a DMP I stopped getting them and just used the extra antlerless tag for bow/muzzleloader. I must not have been the only one to do this so now they are eliminating that tag! They are strong arming us into paying more and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. They are going to do whatever makes them the most money!

You dont pay $10 per DMP, you pay $10 and get how many ever DMPs you draw, which could be up to four. Before you go on a rant, you might want to get the facts straight about how you are being bent over. 

Dont forget if you got your lifetime before 9/30/09 or round about, there is no charge for a DMP.