Antler Restriction Results Poll

[Just Lucky]

The biggest problem with ar is it destroys the deer herd population.  If you shoot all the does and babies there won't be bucks born. That is what I have seen. Gotta have seed for the next season.

[SteveB]

17 hours ago, dlgerow said:

In 3H and 3A three points on one side with minimum tine length of 1 inch.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

So young bucks are still shooters. Got it.

 

[dbHunterNY]

On 10/31/2018 at 7:12 AM, Just Lucky said:

I have not hunted AR in ny but my experience in pa since AR is fewer deer by far. Totally against them personally. 

that's something totally different. when they did ARs they also handed boat loads of doe permits with intention of lowering the population.  ARs didn't do that alone by any means. DEC surveyed the AR WMUs here and found ARs to have much less of an impact on doe take than people think.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

14 hours ago, alloutdoors said:

. Prior to AR's I would spend most seasons seeing nothing more than yearling spikes and forkhorns, with the occasional yearling 5 or 6 thrown in. I stopped shooting yearlings after I'd killed three or four bucks, so I had lots of time on stand to see what was out there because the only thing I ever really shot was doe. It was easy to go 5 years or more and see nothing but yearlings from the stand. 

 

That is valuable experience and in the AR areas the young or first time hunters don't have that luxury. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Culvercreek hunt club

[dbHunterNY]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

That is valuable experience and in the AR areas the young or first time hunters don't have that luxury. 

that could easily be fixed but any AR legislation or reg is like hot lava now. nobody in albany cares to touch it because they don't want people from both sides kicking down their doors and making phones ring off the hook. DEC or legislative bodies both. not good as any AR or deer management tool should be monitored and revisited.

[Hunter007]

9 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

that could easily be fixed but any AR legislation or reg is like hot lava now. nobody in albany cares to touch it because they don't want people from both sides kicking down their doors and making phones ring off the hook. DEC or legislative bodies both. not good as any AR or deer management tool should be monitored and revisited.

Just my opinion but ARs are unnatural. 

Do wolf's  or any predator only go after one group of deer ? If it does not happen with other predators. 

Then it probably not a good idea for humans to hunt that way either .

 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:11 AM, Canis Latrans said:

Some people have mentioned there are less Deer overall after AR implementation. What could be the reason for this? The only thing I can think of is bow hunters taking doe instead of bucks. I often hear people on this forum complaining that there aren’t many bucks but they saw 18 doe in the stand that day, yet still can’t get doe tags. 

 

It sounds like maybe maybe two or three years of AR’s in that area might be a good solution.

traditionally DEC has done tag allocation based on buck take and whether or not the number they expected where taken, along with DMP or DMAP tags that were filled or not. buck take objective is more or less based on opportunity of any legal buck without restriction so AR's make things complicated. DEC would rather hand out less tags than too many to be safe. I've talked to the "big unit" people about it.

[dbHunterNY]

2 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just my opinion but ARs are unnatural. 

Do wolf's  or any predator only go after one group of deer ? If it does not happen with other predators. 

Then it probably not a good idea for humans to hunt that way either .

 

 

 

you can try and swing it either way but we as hunters each have our own set of standards and thus as a group do not take any one particular group of deer other than what's available. hunters themselves are unnatural. from your weapon of choice to your printed tags, they were all determined by us and not "nature".  history has proven that if we left it up to a free for all and will power then we'd just about wipe out a species of game.  when game becomes scarce predators move or nature reduces their numbers beyond their control in sometimes brutal fashion. maybe if we want to be natural we let things run their course and then start restricting numbers of licenses available to reduce the hunting population as required? doesn't sounds like a good plan to me.

[alloutdoors]

42 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

That is valuable experience and in the AR areas the young or first time hunters don't have that luxury. 

I gained a hell of a lot more experience by sitting in my stand and watching all those yearling bucks instead of shooting the first one that walked by each year. Also, the experience of shooting a deer can be gained from shooting a doe just as well as shooting a spike, and young hunters are exempt from the AR's anyway so I'm not sure what your point is there.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, alloutdoors said:

I gained a hell of a lot more experience by sitting in my stand and watching all those yearling bucks instead of shooting the first one that walked by each year. Also, the experience of shooting a deer can be gained from shooting a doe just as well as shooting a spike, and young hunters are exempt from the AR's anyway so I'm not sure what your point is there.

young hunters that gun hunt have 3 seasons to make that experience before the AR's limit them. (14-15 amd 16 years old) Beginning adults have no chance to gain that experience. You make is sound so easy to just be in an area that allows you to take a doe. How much of the state has NO or limited DMP's. It's quite a bit actually. My point is you shot young deer. You enjoyed the experience i would assume and you grew to a point where you wanted more. Personally i think that is the natural progression of a hunter.  IMO the AR's choose to legislate and mandate a hunters progression. I'd rather have this come through education rather than legislation.

I'd also like to add one this. Buck act differently than does. We act differently when  a buck appears. Heck just look at the buck fever threads and  some of the live from the woods stuff

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Culvercreek hunt club

[alloutdoors]

8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

young hunters that gun hunt have 3 seasons to make that experience before the AR's limit them. (14-15 amd 16 years old) Beginning adults have no chance to gain that experience. You make is sound so easy to just be in an area that allows you to take a doe. How much of the state has NO or limited DMP's. It's quite a bit actually. My point is you shot young deer. You enjoyed the experience i would assume and you grew to a point where you wanted more. Personally i think that is the natural progression of a hunter.  IMO the AR's choose to legislate and mandate a hunters progression. I'd rather have this come through education rather than legislation.

I'd also like to add one this. Buck act differently than does. We act differently when  a buck appears. Heck just look at the buck fever threads and  some of the live from the woods stuff

 

Just for the record, in my area DMP's require preference points, it's not like I'm hunting western NY where they can't give enough of them away. Most of the does I've shot have come with a bow or muzzleloader, there's plenty of opportunities for those who want to take advantage of them. It's ok that we disagree though, we just have different priorities. I feel that we are stewards of an important resource and I prioritize the overall health of the entire herd over trying to maximize the number of people that get to shoot a deer every year.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, alloutdoors said:

 It's ok that we disagree though, we just have different priorities. I feel that we are stewards of an important resource and I prioritize the overall health of the entire herd over trying to maximize the number of people that get to shoot a deer every year.

So if I read this correctly you feel we have different priorities and you state yours. Would that mean that you believe that those aren't mine?

 

Just for shits and giggles, how old were you when you started hunting and how long have you done it?

Edited November 12, 2018 by Culvercreek hunt club

[alloutdoors]

48 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Just my opinion but ARs are unnatural. 

Do wolf's  or any predator only go after one group of deer ? If it does not happen with other predators. 

Then it probably not a good idea for humans to hunt that way either .

 

 

 

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want, but your current opinion is based on ignorance. Wolves don't have the capacity to eliminate 3/4's of the yearling class of males every single year. AR's aren't perfect, in fact I'm pretty unhappy with the ones we have now, but they are slowly moving the needle in the right direction as far as creating a more natural age structure in the deer herd. Did you know that research has shown that before European colonization 20+% of the bucks were 5-years old or older? That is the sort of age structure we should be targeting. That is natural. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, alloutdoors said:

 Wolves don't have the capacity to eliminate 3/4's of the yearling class of males every single year. 

i am curious where you got the 75%yearling number you keep using for NY buck harvest/

[Hunter007]

19 minutes ago, alloutdoors said:

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want, but your current opinion is based on ignorance. Wolves don't have the capacity to eliminate 3/4's of the yearling class of males every single year. AR's aren't perfect, in fact I'm pretty unhappy with the ones we have now, but they are slowly moving the needle in the right direction as far as creating a more natural age structure in the deer herd. Did you know that research has shown that before European colonization 20+% of the bucks were 5-years old or older? That is the sort of age structure we should be targeting. That is natural. 

 a limited hunting  season that is what keeps deer  from getting wiped out .

ARs is only good for giving a easier trophy to someone. Kinda like high fence hunting. It let's the less wild bucks grow that normally would get shot .

There are big bucks even without AR only difference is those are actually the deer with the gentics  that make them the most wild and smartest bucks . 

They show up on trail cams .

Just not stupid enough to come close to most hunters .

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Storm914

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

 a limited hunting  season that is what keeps deer  from getting wiped out .

ARs is only good for giving a easier trophy to someone. Kinda like high fence hunting. It let's the less wild bucks grow that normally would get shot .

There are big bucks even without AR only difference is those are actually the deer with the gentics  that make them the most wild and smartest bucks . 

They show up on trail cams .

Just not stupid enough to come close to most hunters .

 

 

age and experience makes a smarter buck. Not genetics. 

[Doewhacker]

53 minutes ago, alloutdoors said:

I prioritize the overall health of the entire herd over trying to maximize the number of people that get to shoot a deer every year.

Ars do not do anything to change the health of a deer herd. Our herd is healthy actually, @95% of doe are bred. 

I don’t care about the rest of your opinion and neither does NYS. Sorry, that is a fact. 

[Doewhacker]

One example then I leave. 

Yesterday a landowner told us that this other hunter was there four days this past week and never saw a deer. This is in an AR zone for the record. 

My brother and I went in mid day and managed to see 10 doe and a good buck. 

ARs didn’t change what he saw or how he hunted. Sometimes it’s the hunter not the law that make the difference. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

15 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

One example then I leave. 

Yesterday a landowner told us that this other hunter was there four days this past week and never saw a deer. This is in an AR zone for the record. 

My brother and I went in mid day and managed to see 10 doe and a good buck. 

ARs didn’t change what he saw or how he hunted. Sometimes it’s the hunter not the law that make the difference. 

I do know a few guys that you could air drop them into the middle of Four Season's farm and they wouldn't see a deer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I do know a few guys that you could air drop them into the middle of Four Season's farm and they wouldn't see a deer.

My buddy came over and hunted at my place yesterday. He was 150 yards away from Haley and I, in a great stand, but not the one I suggested because of the wind. He went there because of past trail cam pics I showed him. He saw nothing. Haley and I saw no less than 10 deer. If he would have hunted one of the other stands that I told him that he should sit in, he would have had deer walking right under the stand.

[alloutdoors]

29 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Ars do not do anything to change the health of a deer herd. Our herd is healthy actually, @95% of doe are bred. 

I don’t care about the rest of your opinion and neither does NYS. Sorry, that is a fact. 

LOL. Guess I can throw out my degrees in wildlife management, I didn't realize having 95% of the doe bred was the only necessary barometer of herd health. Thanks for setting me straight.

[dbHunterNY]

18 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Ars do not do anything to change the health of a deer herd. Our herd is healthy actually, @95% of doe are bred. 

I don’t care about the rest of your opinion and neither does NYS. Sorry, that is a fact. 

95% bred is an educated guess from DEC that varies based on the info they get which can lack luster in some areas which cause people tend to question some of that data. the fact is that statewide we're most likely fine but that doesn't mean some areas are not. fact is joe hunter doesn't give a rats a** how the rest of the state is doing, he really only cares about the area he hunts. some areas the buck population gets annihilated and there's little of any age structure or balanced sex ratio. protecting bucks to live and do as they do in this will change the health of the herd for the better, whether that means ARs, one buck rule, or whatever means floats the general publics boat with less torment.

[dbHunterNY]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I do know a few guys that you could air drop them into the middle of Four Season's farm and they wouldn't see a deer.

fun thing we have them out this way too. lol

[alloutdoors]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

i am curious where you got the 75%yearling number you keep using for NY buck harvest/

Personal experience running camera surveys on individual parcels of land in the eastern part of the state. Wasn't implying it's a state wide number, in fact it's really a worst case scenario with high hunting pressure and a patchwork of small properties primarily in the 20-70 acre range. It just demonstrates what can happen in the "shoot anything with antlers" model of deer hunting, and it's why I appreciate the AR's we currently have, despite how much better they could be implemented.

[Just Lucky]

I think we have enough unforceable laws and restrictions. We have  declining hunters and I don't feel more restrictions would help that.

There are bigger buck now than ever before in the regions i hunt do to less hunters and less access.

Shoot and kill what makes you happy.