Hunting Mature Deer

[steve863]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

I'm not much of any kind of bowhunter, but I would agree.  I would much prefer a more accurate and effective and easier to shoot bow if I must use one, and that without a doubt is a compound.  I do however think that compound bows have grown to where there are just way too many bells and whistles attached to them.  Just to many parts, gadgets, gear, junk, etc. for my liking involved with modern day compounds.  That is why I will hang on to my fairly simple 1990 compound bow until it falls completely apart or I die.  Whichever comes first.  LOL

yeah me too Steve. It seems over the years Recurves have slowly become more popular. Im not bashing anyone who still uses them or wishes to get into using them BUT i just seems silly to me. Ive watched shows when they use recurves and it makes me lough. One guy was ranting and raving about his recurve, he gets a 15 yard shot on a deer perfectly broadside, gut shot the dang thing and when i say he got NO penetration, that would be an understatement.  he lost that deer... i admit tho these new compounds are somewhat futuristic compared to modern day compounds but they are great Steve lol. i have an 2005 Mathews switch back XT ill stick too. Its dead acurate and has great penetration, i also feel very confident with it which is important. you have to feel comfortable with what you shoot no matter what it is...

One limits themselves big time with a recurve.  I honestly think most people shouldn't shoot past 20 yards even with a compound bow. Give someone a recurve and you practically have to be arms length away from the deer.  Some will argue that native Americans killed deer with simple bows, but we will never know for sure how many they only wounded and never recovered.  Plus, many tribes used poison on their arrows which eventually would put a deer down even with a poor shot, and that is something modern bowhunters are not allowed to do, so I for one would prefer to use a bow that has a better chance of being effective and more accurate over something that has minimal range.

[NFA-ADK]

I agree, the long bow is just tough to get good with and it just does not have the power I want in a bow.  When I was praticing allot w/my bow I was good out to 35-40 yards and could hit the bull still at 50.  But realisticly I would not shoot past 30.  Hats off to all the post guys you ROCK!!!  You have my respect and my secerity.  So good to talk to other fellow hunters, feel like I am encircled with tree huggers that know very little about the woods yet they are the ones that think they know what is best for us hunters and the environment.  Suffolk county resident...  67 days till bow hunting/scouting the ADK!!!

[SteveB]

And I don't understand the facination with a compound.

I blow thru deer with a 53# recurve up to 30 yds.

And I've helped with a lot more then 1 bloodtrail from under 20 yd bad hits with compounds - several never recovered. 

A 50# recurve/longbow has all the power needed to efficiently kill any animal in North America.  It ain't the bow - its the indian and their skill - or lack of it.

[nyantler]

Ny, wouldn't you rather take those bucks at 30 yds w/a compound than not have a shot w/ a recurve?

Nah.. I no longer own a compound.. got rid of all mine years ago to go traditional... I shoot a 60# bow and can shoot quite well at 30 yards but just not comfortable outside 20 yards in the woods...if I only get 1 nice buck in my lifetime with the recurve I'll be a happy man... it's really not about the buck for me.. it's about the experience... I promise my first one with the trad bow will be a beauty, but the story will be even better

[nyantler]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

Like anything else it's a personal preference... As I got older and more experienced I became less challenged when it came to killing deer... so about 17 years ago started getting picky about what I shoot, how I hunt and what I shoot them with... I still however use a rifle in the ADK's simply because the challenge is the woods itself... and shooting a big buck there makes it even more of a challenge... so it's nice to have a little firepower when you finally get that opportunity to take a nice buck in the ADK's.. when I hunt close to home it's MZ w/patch and ball.. or the recurve... Harley riders have a saying about riding a Harley that applies here about shooting trad bow... "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."  ;D

[Geno C]

I agree, the long bow is just tough to get good with and it just does not have the power I want in a bow.  When I was praticing allot w/my bow I was good out to 35-40 yards and could hit the bull still at 50.  But realisticly I would not shoot past 30.  Hats off to all the post guys you ROCK!!!  You have my respect and my secerity.  So good to talk to other fellow hunters, feel like I am encircled with tree huggers that know very little about the woods yet they are the ones that think they know what is best for us hunters and the environment.  Suffolk county resident...  67 days till bow hunting/scouting the ADK!!!

where abouts are you from in suffolk? im in Centereach... do you hunt the island?

[Geno C]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

Like anything else it's a personal preference... As I got older and more experienced I became less challenged when it came to killing deer... so about 17 years ago started getting picky about what I shoot, how I hunt and what I shoot them with... I still however use a rifle in the ADK's simply because the challenge is the woods itself... and shooting a big buck there makes it even more of a challenge... so it's nice to have a little firepower when you finally get that opportunity to take a nice buck in the ADK's.. when I hunt close to home it's MZ w/patch and ball.. or the recurve... Harley riders have a saying about riding a Harley that applies here about shooting trad bow... "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."  ;D

no need to explain joe lol

i got ya... its a similar statement made by other guys who shoot traditional bows, well minus the Harley comment LOL!

[NFA-ADK]

i still dont get the whole hype on recurves lol... i just dont...

Like anything else it's a personal preference... As I got older and more experienced I became less challenged when it came to killing deer... so about 17 years ago started getting picky about what I shoot, how I hunt and what I shoot them with... I still however use a rifle in the ADK's simply because the challenge is the woods itself... and shooting a big buck there makes it even more of a challenge... so it's nice to have a little firepower when you finally get that opportunity to take a nice buck in the ADK's.. when I hunt close to home it's MZ w/patch and ball.. or the recurve... Harley riders have a saying about riding a Harley that applies here about shooting trad bow... "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."  ;D

You are years ahead of me in the hunting game Mr.Nyantler and have my respect.  I hope to reach the same level of hunting wisdom as you one day and simply say I do not need a compound bow and move over to the recurve and black powerder.  (Like you said except for the ADK)  I believe we have the same attitude in hunting, we do it for the experaince and the love of nature and all its beauty.  Some of my most memorable times in the woods have been when I let a doe or small buck pass and seen all the action I would have missed if I had shot them... It seems to me most hunters get this attitude after taking many deer;  they become so good that shooting a deer just does not cut it anymore, and then the challenge starts, they hunt smart and are not as concerned with impressing others by taking a deer EVERY year and they do not need to fill a freezer to eat...  This type of hunter is the most advance hunters in the world of deer hunting due to the vast knowledge aquired over many years of hunting whitetail, in my oppinion...  I hope some day that I can reach this level of hunting experiance, knowledge and wisdom.  I always tell the guys at camp, a successful hunt is one we all come back home safe, everything else is just details...  I attached the mount from last years hunt. Same deer pictured in 1st post.

[NFA-ADK]

I agree, the long bow is just tough to get good with and it just does not have the power I want in a bow.  When I was praticing allot w/my bow I was good out to 35-40 yards and could hit the bull still at 50.  But realisticly I would not shoot past 30.  Hats off to all the post guys you ROCK!!!  You have my respect and my secerity.  So good to talk to other fellow hunters, feel like I am encircled with tree huggers that know very little about the woods yet they are the ones that think they know what is best for us hunters and the environment.  Suffolk county resident...  67 days till bow hunting/scouting the ADK!!!

where abouts are you from in suffolk? im in Centereach... do you hunt the island?

I live in Huntington.  I have never hunted on Long Island for a few reasons.  1 public land has many restrictions and I do not have access to private land.  2 Even though Suffolk might have some of the largest antlers in NY it just is not the same as hunting upstate.  3 lyme disease scares me...  I can't say I will never hunt Long Island, just have not done it yet...  I am always willing to try a new area just to see more deer and watch them and there habits.  I feel the more knowledge on ANY deer will help when I get into the big woods, one of the reasons I read so many deer hunting books.

[NFA-ADK]

Looks pretty heavy too!  Did you weigh or score him?

No score but he was 207 lbs.

[SCsportman]

I like you views on hunting the ADKs NFA-ADK. I think the same way. i learned kinda young how to hunt the ADKs, i hunt the wilcox wild forest alot. its alot like up in long lake. i know a few ppl that hunt up that way. there nothing like shooting a mature buck from up there were there are "no deer". you dont see alot of them but thats why we hunt there, for the chance at the big ones. My hunting partners dont all understand why i let some of the deer go i do but i think they will learn. i have a good crew i hunt with right now and theres alot to learn still but i have a good feeling we will be harvesting some nice bucks in the years to come. here are a couple pics of some decent ones i have shot in the ADKs at my camp and one my buddy got last year that you might have seen the pic of already.

[NFA-ADK]

Some REALY nice deer up in the ADK.  Nice area you hunt, I hunted Athol/Thurman my 1st year in the ADK.  That is a real beauty of a buck you've taken I have seen the last picture on some sites.  I am told thier are bigger ones out thier, and that gets my blood pumping!!! Nice to hear you agree.  It's hard to Hunt the Dack's but like you said the rewards of taking a mature buck can be a trophy and story of a lifetime.  Many places in the ADK are challenging and passing on that little spike buck can get you a ticket to a true trophy.  I have a hard time convincing all of my camp to hunt like Shawn and I.  It is hard to convince guys who never see deer to not shoot a spike and I can't stop them, just advise them on what I do and why.  Some people will shoot anything with horns and I am ok with that but I do not need to fill my tag to eat or gain notoriety by shooting X amount of deer.  I do it because it's fun, a challenge and every moment in the woods away from our crazy society is just BLISS...  Again wow really nice buck!!!  THanks for the post and best of luck to you and your camp this year!  A good hunt is when everyone comes home safe, everything else is just details!

I like you views on hunting the ADKs NFA-ADK. I think the same way. i learned kinda young how to hunt the ADKs, i hunt the wilcox wild forest alot. its alot like up in long lake. i know a few ppl that hunt up that way. there nothing like shooting a mature buck from up there were there are "no deer". you dont see alot of them but thats why we hunt there, for the chance at the big ones. My hunting partners dont all understand why i let some of the deer go i do but i think they will learn. i have a good crew i hunt with right now and theres alot to learn still but i have a good feeling we will be harvesting some nice bucks in the years to come. here are a couple pics of some decent ones i have shot in the ADKs at my camp and one my buddy got last year that you might have seen the pic of already.

[nyantler]

Nice deer.. big bodies!

[biggamefish]

  Hey you stand for what you believe in and that is what matters.  The only thing I kinda snickered at is the whole I have praticed on does and 3-4 pointers by pulling my bow back and letting them walk.  Do you put them in your scope ring on your gun to and then say bang? 

  I was always taught don't point anything at anything you don't want to shoot.  I am just saying things go wrong.  You can do what you want just something to think about.  Safety is no accident.

[NFA-ADK]

I understand your concern but I am allowed to shoot them(doe's and spikes)...  If I accidently shot one it would still be legal.  While doing this I would not have my finger on the trigger (release).  I use to try to get sighted at full draw onto them with the bow to see if I was able to: WITHOUT them seeing or hearing me.  It did not always work, that is why I did it.  This way when I was ready to shoot at a deer I wanted, I had drawn on so many for practice it was second nature and hopefully I had fixed my errors on deer I would have missed in practice.  This was done with bow only, I never aimed a gun at ANY deer I did not want to shoot.  And yes after I pulled off the deer and drew down I would say, "I would have taken you!!!"  Last year my best down draw was on a black bear 10 yards away, again just a cub about 200 lbs, unfortunatly one of my hunting party decieded to shoot him but thats another story...

  Hey you stand for what you believe in and that is what matters.  The only thing I kinda snickered at is the whole I have praticed on does and 3-4 pointers by pulling my bow back and letting them walk.  Do you put them in your scope ring on your gun to and then say bang? 

  I was always taught don't point anything at anything you don't want to shoot.  I am just saying things go wrong.  You can do what you want just something to think about.  Safety is no accident.

[Geno C]

its an odd approach but whatever works for you i guess...

[biggamefish]

  The recurves are just as deadly as the compounds.  You just have to pratice a little more and know you limitations.  There is no i think i can make this shot.  You have to know and be confident with every shot. 

[NFA-ADK]

  The recurves are just as deadly as the compounds.  You just have to pratice a little more and know you limitations.  There is no i think i can make this shot.  You have to know and be confident with every shot.

I agree with you IF you are shooting less than 20-25 yards, they are as deadly as a compound but I don't feel they are as effective...  I hope you understand my point.  The nice thing about a compound bow is you can shoot out to about 35-45 yards effectively...  I can hit bulls at 50.  I do not feel that I could get the same results with a recurve consistently.  That is the biggest problem I have with a recurve is the fact that you are limited...  Hunting the Adirondacks with low deer population and rough terrain, I want the most advance shooting device I can have to ensure a good shot at 30-40 yards.  That extra confidence in the bows ability is why I stick with a compound bow...  It's much harder to get close to a mature deer and that extra 10-15 yards I get with a compound bow is HUGE!!!  I want an arrow that will go through the deer for a quick ethical kill.  I just feel a compound bow in the area I hunt is much more ideal and effective.  I am not saying a recurve will not work or that a really good shooter can not take a long shot but a recurve is just not as effective at longer distances and limits your shots.  Can you take deer with recurve?  Yes the Indians used them for years; But I believe a compound bow is better suited for a still hunter in the Adirondacks looking for longer more effective shooting ability...

[Doc]

I agree with you IF you are shooting less than 20-25 yards, they are as deadly as a compound but I don't feel they are as effective...  I hope you understand my point.  The nice thing about a compound bow is you can shoot out to about 35-45 yards effectively...  I can hit bulls at 50.  I do not feel that I could get the same results with a recurve consistently.  That is the biggest problem I have with a recurve is the fact that you are limited...  Hunting the Adirondacks with low deer population and rough terrain, I want the most advance shooting device I can have to ensure a good shot at 30-40 yards.  That extra confidence in the bows ability is why I stick with a compound bow...  It's much harder to get close to a mature deer and that extra 10-15 yards I get with a compound bow is HUGE!!!  I want an arrow that will go through the deer for a quick ethical kill.  I just feel a compound bow in the area I hunt is much more ideal and effective.  I am not saying a recurve will not work or that a really good shooter can not take a long shot but a recurve is just not as effective at longer distances and limits your shots.  Can you take deer with recurve?  Yes the Indians used them for years; But I believe a compound bow is better suited for a still hunter in the Adirondacks looking for longer more effective shooting ability...

It sounds like you are saying that a compound is required to make up for lack of hunting skill and the art of getting close, which by the way was the original intent of bow seasons. We are constantly trying our darndest to stretch out that shooting distance through technology. I try to keep sight of what the original challenge was supposed to be. It was using short-range equipment to challenge our hunting abilities through the need to get within that 20 or 25 yard distance. Certainly there are some very good advantages to using compounds, but my main reason for using one is not to see how far away I can shoot my deer. In fact, I still limit my shots to 25 yards even though the target range says I could shoot farther. But frankly I am the most satisfied when I can get within a handful of feet (almost in touching distance .... lol). That's a bit of a test, and that's when I really get over-the-top excited. To me that's the challenge and excitement of bowhunting.

[nyantler]

Well said Doc...

[gjs4]

Noticed this thread has QDM aspects, TBM aspects, property managment, herd management, NZ deer hunting vs SZ and then a pissing contest amongst bow hunters (which at least we see the huge difference between us and the orange folks)....but all the folks I know and run with who take mature bucks seriously could do it with any weapon..almost all of them are SZ...and if they own the ground there is a much bigger picture than if theyre after a (single) mature buck...... hunters all want the biggest buck in the woods but the VAST majority in NY are too lacking the effort to make it happen with consistency

[NFA-ADK]

I agree with you IF you are shooting less than 20-25 yards, they are as deadly as a compound but I don't feel they are as effective...  I hope you understand my point.  The nice thing about a compound bow is you can shoot out to about 35-45 yards effectively...  I can hit bulls at 50.  I do not feel that I could get the same results with a recurve consistently.  That is the biggest problem I have with a recurve is the fact that you are limited...  Hunting the Adirondacks with low deer population and rough terrain, I want the most advance shooting device I can have to ensure a good shot at 30-40 yards.  That extra confidence in the bows ability is why I stick with a compound bow...  It's much harder to get close to a mature deer and that extra 10-15 yards I get with a compound bow is HUGE!!!  I want an arrow that will go through the deer for a quick ethical kill.  I just feel a compound bow in the area I hunt is much more ideal and effective.  I am not saying a recurve will not work or that a really good shooter can not take a long shot but a recurve is just not as effective at longer distances and limits your shots.  Can you take deer with recurve?  Yes the Indians used them for years; But I believe a compound bow is better suited for a still hunter in the Adirondacks looking for longer more effective shooting ability...

It sounds like you are saying that a compound is required to make up for lack of hunting skill and the art of getting close, which by the way was the original intent of bow seasons. We are constantly trying our darndest to stretch out that shooting distance through technology. I try to keep sight of what the original challenge was supposed to be. It was using short-range equipment to challenge our hunting abilities through the need to get within that 20 or 25 yard distance. Certainly there are some very good advantages to using compounds, but my main reason for using one is not to see how far away I can shoot my deer. In fact, I still limit my shots to 25 yards even though the target range says I could shoot farther. But frankly I am the most satisfied when I can get within a handful of feet (almost in touching distance .... lol). That's a bit of a test, and that's when I really get over-the-top excited. To me that's the challenge and excitement of bowhunting.

To Each His Own...  Hunting is different for each person...  You use a bow to get close to your prey, I don’t!  I have a supposed "hunter" that didn't even go into the woods one year but loves to drink at base camp all day and say he "hunts"...  I don’t complain because I like someone watching my stuff at base camp…  Only problem is I found out last year we are know as the “drunks” because of him…  Not the best representative for base camp but like I said hunting is what you make of it…  Every year I hunt, I seem to raise the bar for MYSELF.  You use a bow to get CLOSE to your pray, within touching distance, that’s great.  Let’s see some video. 

I use the compound bow for additional time in the woods and to pre-scout for rifle season in the Adirondacks.  I do not realistically think that I will get a mature deer(Northern Zone bow), even though I will try my hardest...  I invite you to come where I hunt and photograph a single mature buck in the woods while still hunting, you can stay at my camp site if you would like.  Then if you actually get a picture of the deer you can try your skills at getting close and we can discuss your success at base camp…  I am going the 1st week in October, so far a solo hunt 1st-8^th Moose River.

Most hunters in the area I hunt do not see a deer the entire week, including some famous deer trackers.  And please do not suggest I use a compound bow due to lack of hunting skills and the art of getting close, you do not know me or what I have accomplished hunting.  I have come within touching distance of deer when hunting and choose to let them go.  I use a bow for additional time with nature and do what I want, not what others think I should do. (I don't shoot doe or spikes in the ADK where I hunt.  In the Roscoe area, even though it needs help with doe population, I am not allowed to shoot doe’s by the land owner…)  Again, I hunt mature bucks not does or spikes.  I could have hit a deer with a baseball bat in Roscoe on three diff occasions one weekend.  I just don't kill for the sake of killing or saying I killed X amount of deer or because I need to eat.  I hunt because I love to hunt.  I do not have the ability to hunt that often so an opportunity at 40 yards is just that and opportunity and to exclude that would be a shame if it was a nice mature buck...  The extra 20 yards I get with a compound bow is my choice.  Please do not confuse my hunting ability with the fact that I will not sacrifice an extra 20 yards of shooting effectiveness...  It gets me upset, lol…

[G-Man]

I think any yardage limit is not based on anything but your own skill, i know a few recurve and longbow shooters that can shoot 80+ yards breaking a 8 in diameter baloon everytime. a bow compound/recurve/longbow is strictly limited to killing distance by energy tranfered to an animal at range. most will kill at 100+yards. the human skill factor is what limits most hunters to a range of 25 or 40 yards. add in brush/limbs. and you'll get an effective hunting range for yourself. Same hold true for rifle/shotgun the rounds are capable of killing at a lot greater ranges than ones personal ability will allow for. that said. Figuring out a mature deer takes time! and a lot of it! Weather you learn to tell a mature deer's track and follow it, or pattern it and hang stands to intercept them. The time you spend develops the skills that make you a top hunter! I've never seen a consistant "big buck"  hunter that spends only weekends in the woods or even 1-2 weeks a year. Unfortunatly for most of us Time a limiting factor in our ability to acquire the nessary skills to reach the next level that we all want to be at.

[NFA-ADK]

Noticed this thread has QDM aspects, TBM aspects, property managment, herd management, NZ deer hunting vs SZ and then a pissing contest amongst bow hunters (which at least we see the huge difference between us and the orange folks)....but all the folks I know and run with who take mature bucks seriously could do it with any weapon..almost all of them are SZ...and if they own the ground there is a much bigger picture than if theyre after a (single) mature buck...... hunters all want the biggest buck in the woods but the VAST majority in NY are too lacking the effort to make it happen with consistency

It's not about getting the biggest buck for me, it's about hunting mature deer and there is a difference.  Mature deer in general have to have at least 6 points for me to shoot, and yes I know this is not the best way to judge a deer’s age but it's the easiest way until you get them...    Most SZ hunters I know would not hunt the NZ because of deer populations and the vastness of the woods...  In so far as the hunters you know taking mature deer with any weapon, tell them to try it with a bow all season...  I bet most will stick with their weapon of choice.  In so far as consistency I agree, most hunters do not spend the time or effort to get a mature deer.  I have a hunter in my party who shoots one time 20 round max on a rest w/scope, if he hits the target ok he is done shooting.  I try to explain that he probably will not have a rest to lean on but he will not take my advice and will not try shooting free-hand.  I am hoping that I get my consistency up this year after missing opportunities at 3 mature ADK deer over the last few years which I attribute to buck fever amongst other factors...

[NFA-ADK]

I think any yardage limit is not based on anything but your own skill, i know a few recurve and longbow shooters that can shoot 80+ yards breaking a 8 in diameter baloon everytime. a bow compound/recurve/longbow is strictly limited to killing distance by energy tranfered to an animal at range. most will kill at 100+yards. the human skill factor is what limits most hunters to a range of 25 or 40 yards. add in brush/limbs. and you'll get an effective hunting range for yourself. Same hold true for rifle/shotgun the rounds are capable of killing at a lot greater ranges than ones personal ability will allow for. that said. Figuring out a mature deer takes time! and a lot of it! Weather you learn to tell a mature deer's track and follow it, or pattern it and hang stands to intercept them. The time you spend develops the skills that make you a top hunter! I've never seen a consistant "big buck"  hunter that spends only weekends in the woods or even 1-2 weeks a year. Unfortunatly for most of us Time a limiting factor in our ability to acquire the nessary skills to reach the next level that we all want to be at.

I agree, you can shoot a deer at 100 yards, IF IT DOES NOT MOVE.  The only problem I have with that is what I call the jump factor.  String noise travels faster than arrows...  When you shoot under 45-50 yards you have a much better chance of the deer NOT jumping the string.  In so far as hunting time, to each his own...  I am sure most serious hunters get in as much time as is allowed.  I go to every hunting area I am invited to during the hunting season if time allows.  This year I have saved 3 weeks of my 3 week vacation for Hunting, I cannot do much more.  1 week bow in the ADK, 5 days 2 weeks later for SZ bow and 1 week for ADK during rifle with a few days left in case I don't fill my tag.