2019 Habitat seed Program (Soybeans)

[suburbanfarmer]

 

On 12/7/2019 at 1:43 PM, goosifer said:

Could anyone tell me, assuming normal/average growing conditions, how many days it takes for the soybeans to grow to the point that a) the deer will start eating the leaves and b) the plants will be fully mature/go brown?

Trying to figure out when I can plant these next year. One options is to plant them "early", and then plant something else for the fall, or maybe I can plant these mid-summer and have them through some or all of gun season. I'm open to suggestions in general in this regard. Thanks.

Ditto

[suburbanfarmer]

@culvercreek Also will be interested in 2020 seed program if it rolls out.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:43 PM, goosifer said:

Could anyone tell me, assuming normal/average growing conditions, how many days it takes for the soybeans to grow to the point that a) the deer will start eating the leaves and b) the plants will be fully mature/go brown?

Trying to figure out when I can plant these next year. One options is to plant them "early", and then plant something else for the fall, or maybe I can plant these mid-summer and have them through some or all of gun season. I'm open to suggestions in general in this regard. Thanks.

well it depends on the bean variety. If conditions are right you could get them punching out in a week with full maturity in 90-150 days. Planted at soil temp of 60 degrees.  If you have high deer populations or they find it, I have seen them in there chewing 3 weeks after planting. If they clip them off before that first group of leaves set, the plant is basically done. Without those first leaves to provide food to the plant the stored food that was in the seed will be used up before more leaves can grow. 

I would plant them with something else combined.  Even a brassica. bean plants early, brassica during early cold and if the beans get to seed pods they are great late season draw.  There are a bunch of combo options out there to go with Soybeans. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[goosifer]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

. . . I would plant them with something else combined.  Even a brassica. bean plants early, brassica during early cold and if the beans get to seed pods they are great late season draw.  There are a bunch of combo options out there to go with Soybeans. 

So, plant the soybean seeds and the brassica seeds at the same time/same day? Would the soybean innoculant affect the brassica seeds in any way?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, goosifer said:

So, plant the soybean seeds and the brassica seeds at the same time/same day? Would the soybean innoculant affect the brassica seeds in any way?

Moog actually did this and it came in great. Right to the point the deer found it and mowed the beans out of the plot. It rally was too small for the high population numbers he has. we planted it together. planted the beans and dragged them in and top seeded the brassica. (then pray for rain...lol) The bury depths are different. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[dbHunterNY]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Moog actually did this and it came in great. Right to the point the deer found it and mowed the beans out of the plot. It rally was too small for the high population numbers he has. we planted it together. planted the beans and dragged them in and top seeded the brassica. (then pray for rain...lol) The bury depths are different. 

i should've done this i planted about an acre i got germination and plants starting to grow but deer nipped them off to stubs. as you said no leaves, no chance.

[goosifer]

5 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Moog actually did this and it came in great. Right to the point the deer found it and mowed the beans out of the plot. It rally was too small for the high population numbers he has. we planted it together. planted the beans and dragged them in and top seeded the brassica. (then pray for rain...lol) The bury depths are different. 

poor @moog5050 , those high population numbers can be such an inconvenience.

OK, I am considering expanding my food plots from 1/2 acre to 1 acre each. I was thinking of planting the soybeans in the half acre closer to the tree stand and the brassicas in the half acre farther away. (I want the deer closer for bow season, farther away for gun season. Any thoughts on how thus planting approach would would work as compared to mixing them on top of each other? I could then target a different planting date for the brassicas if need be.

[goosifer]

5 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

i should've done this i planted about an acre i got germination and plants starting to grow but deer nipped them off to stubs. as you said no leaves, no chance.

So would the brassicas present edible material earlier than the soybeans, giving the soybeans a chance to establish themselves? Is that the benefit of mixing the two?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

22 minutes ago, goosifer said:

So would the brassicas present edible material earlier than the soybeans, giving the soybeans a chance to establish themselves? Is that the benefit of mixing the two?

Moog will chime in since you tagged him . Ask him to see the plot pics that have the exclusion cage in the pic.  They hammered everything...lol. If I was splitting the plot like you said I would still add something to the beans. Just in case they pick around and destroy your beans. How frustrating sitting in that stand and watching them across a half acre of barren ground while they eat your brassica in October when they are only suppose to eat it later. I don't know the population numbers you are dealing with. The average deer will eat about 7# of food a day. multiply that by 12 deer and a two week period. that is over half a ton. it takes LOTS and LOTS of 6" high plants to make half a ton. 

and I will say different areas and different deer seem to have different preferences. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[dbHunterNY]

17 minutes ago, goosifer said:

So would the brassicas present edible material earlier than the soybeans, giving the soybeans a chance to establish themselves? Is that the benefit of mixing the two?

hard for me to say because i haven't tried them both together like Bob and Brian. Planting them separately I feel like soybeans would be preferred. i would think it might lessen the browsing pressure though. @Culvercreek hunt club and @moog5050 did one get more pressure than the other when you planted both together? what happened?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

hard for me to say because i haven't tried them both together like Bob and Brian. Planting them separately I feel like soybeans would be preferred. i would think it might lessen the browsing pressure though. @Culvercreek hunt club and @moog5050 did one get more pressure than the other when you planted both together? what happened?

Brian spent more time there observing than I did but it sure seemed like they picked around the brassica chowing on the beans and they moved right to the brassica. Like eating your steak before your vegetables. I think it is some trial and error to get to know your deer herd and well as the surrounding habitat. If the woods near it had a massive white oak stand it probably would take so pressure off the beans. If the farmer next door left his corn standing until gun season, it would probably ease up the pressure on the brassica. My brother in law planted a brassica plot and those deer wouldn't touch it until there was about a foot of snow. 

Last week of gun they were out pawing up the bulbs of the brassica becasue the plants were about all gone already. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[corydd7]

5 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

hard for me to say because i haven't tried them both together like Bob and Brian. Planting them separately I feel like soybeans would be preferred. i would think it might lessen the browsing pressure though. @Culvercreek hunt club and @moog5050 did one get more pressure than the other when you planted both together? what happened?

I have had success planting brassicas about a month after I seed the soybeans. What also might work is if you seeded rye or wheat in the fall, you can top seed the soybeans and roll over the rye or wheat to create a thatch. It will kinda hide the beans and give them a head start on being eaten before your desired time. If you haven't done that I would suggest some red clover frost seeded and wait a little later then usual to plant your beans.

[dbHunterNY]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Brian spent more time there observing than I did but it sure seemed like they picked around the brassica chowing on the beans and they moved right to the brassica. Like eating your steak before your vegetables. I think it is some trial and error to get to know your deer herd and well as the surrounding habitat. If the woods near it had a massive white oak stand it probably would take so pressure off the beans. If the farmer next door left his corn standing until gun season, it would probably ease up the pressure on the brassica. My brother in law planted a brassica plot and those deer wouldn't touch it until there was about a foot of snow. 

Last week of gun they were out pawing up the bulbs of the brassica becasue the plants were about all gone already. 

at my old house i owned a creek bottom of several acres that funneled right into a 10+ acre corn field on the neighbors. had cams watching that sanctuary plot right in the middle of it all. it deer literally walked through it head up until real late in the season. then it was standing room only until it was gone with nothing left just after the season. that was antler king honey hole.

[dbHunterNY]

6 minutes ago, corydd7 said:

I have had success planting brassicas about a month after I seed the soybeans. What also might work is if you seeded rye or wheat in the fall, you can top seed the soybeans and roll over the rye or wheat to create a thatch. It will kinda hide the beans and give them a head start on being eaten before your desired time. If you haven't done that I would suggest some red clover frost seeded and wait a little later then usual to plant your beans.

that might be something to try. i know winter rye cover crop gets hammered in it's early stages. as long as it doesn't crowd out the beans. now that we have no cows on the farm red clover could be an option. lost a lot to bloat when seeded a pasture down with it.

[moog5050]

Honestly, I really can't tell you how well the soybeans grew because they never got big enough for me to say, hey the beans are coming in.  I suspect that as soon as leaves came in, they were eaten at the same time brassicas were being browsed.  (second time that happened as we tried beans once before and they were gone before I noticed any real growth) The brassicas were also mowed down from the start but they grow fast with large leaves and tolerated the pressure through the whole season, to the point that the deer were still pulling roots/bulbs late season.   The only way I would plant beans again is if I have some way of locking out the deer until the plants grew (electric fence?).  This whole plot is less than an acre so your results may vary.    I may rotate this year to clover with oats or wheat mixed in later.  Then back to brassicas in 2021.

2018, my other property (which had corn and winter wheat fields adjacent), the brassicas were not touched until post season.  So this year, I only did clover there which worked great until early November.   Again, I may drop some wheat/oats in this year along with clover.  Either deer in Caledonia hate brassicas or its simply not a preferred source when compared to the fields of beans/wheat and corn that are usually located around it.

Edited December 20, 2019 by moog5050

[suburbanfarmer]

I have tried turnips and radish but the deer didnt bother with them until late in winter when they dug them up from the snow. Hunting season was long over.

Would planting beans and then fencing it with electric work or have you  tried it?

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:44 PM, suburbanfarmer said:

I have tried turnips and radish but the deer didnt bother with them until late in winter when they dug them up from the snow. Hunting season was long over.

Would planting beans and then fencing it with electric work or have you  tried it?

 

Our QDMA Regions Director does it and the deer pretty much stay right out of it. He just pulls the wire off when he wants to open it up to them. Work good if you want to spend the money. 

[TACC]

I have tried turnips and radish but the deer didnt bother with them until late in winter when they dug them up from the snow. Hunting season was long over.
Would planting beans and then fencing it with electric work or have you  tried it?
 

Every year we plant soy beans we do not add an electric solar powered fence, we have the deer eat them down to the ground before they have a chance to grow.

This last year we believe we buried them to deep since we used a disc as opposed to just using a piece of chain link fence drug over it to cover them just a little bit. So they never grew .

This year we will be back to the chain link fence drag, and the electric solar powered fence.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[phade]

We planted more than 2.5 acres of it at two parcels - one with higher deer density and one with lower. The lower took easier but it just wasn't the late season draw we had hoped; standing corn was nearby and I was expecting them to still hit the beans. Almost no action on it. The other place we set up a perimeter and planted two acres. Gone. They knocked down, jumped over, went under our plot saver with vengeance. I have cam pics of 30+ deer in it in summer. Thankfully we salvaged it with a strong brassica and oats/ww effort in late summer.

Short of an electric fence, beans were alot to manage for us. We may try again next year but it's not a guarantee. I think we're becoming fans of the seed/fert/lime/spray/crimp method. Some of our most productive plots were done with a few hours of work using a push spreader, hand seeder, and a tow behind sprayer and roller. We'll use that time savings on more productive prep work. I actually think we could take care of all of our plots in two-three days all-in that way across the entire off-season. We will be frost seeing in clover this year, though.

[suburbanfarmer]

5 minutes ago, phade said:

We planted more than 2.5 acres of it at two parcels - one with higher deer density and one with lower. The lower took easier but it just wasn't the late season draw we had hoped; standing corn was nearby and I was expecting them to still hit the beans. Almost no action on it. The other place we set up a perimeter and planted two acres. Gone. They knocked down, jumped over, went under our plot saver with vengeance. I have cam pics of 30+ deer in it in summer. Thankfully we salvaged it with a strong brassica and oats/ww effort in late summer.

Short of an electric fence, beans were alot to manage for us. We may try again next year but it's not a guarantee. I think we're becoming fans of the seed/fert/lime/spray/crimp method. Some of our most productive plots were done with a few hours of work using a push spreader, hand seeder, and a tow behind sprayer and roller. We'll use that time savings on more productive prep work. I actually think we could take care of all of our plots in two-three days all-in that way across the entire off-season. We will be frost seeing in clover this year, though.

What kind of roller did you use to crimp?

[phade]

1 minute ago, suburbanfarmer said:

What kind of roller did you use to crimp?

We didn't crimp this year- we sprayed gly. Would like to get on the crimp bandwagon at some point but spraying is just too easy to manage comparatively. Likely more beneficial long-term to crimp but we're really intent to reduce the amount of time we plot. We did use a roller afterwards though and I am sure it helped.

We spent ALOT of time on the beans and trying to make a magical seedbed out of a magazine, and fence, etc. Not enough ROI. Almost all of our ROI came on plots that were done in August/Sept, two of which we spent less than two hours on, each, in total. 

[goosifer]

18 minutes ago, phade said:

. . . the seed/fert/lime/spray/crimp method. Some of our most productive plots were done with a few hours of work using a push spreader, hand seeder, and a tow behind sprayer and roller. 

Could you elaborate/explain what this process is? So you never disc or break the soil in any way? Do you brush hog it beforehand? Is crimp or roller = cultipacker? Thanks.

[phade]

Just now, goosifer said:

Could you elaborate/explain what this process is? So you never disc or break the soil in any way? Do you brush hog it beforehand? Is crimp or roller = cultipacker? Thanks.

We're moving real quick to never breaking up the ground, with the exception of a first year in some cases. It limits what kind of seeds/plants you can grow but like anything else, I think once you find that balance that works for you, then it's pretty simple. Take your basic grassy field location, and you can mow it, or simply spray it a time or two during spring and early summer, and then come back at planting time. Seed, lay fertilizer, lime as needed, spray and roll it. It's really that simple. We did do a soil test ahead of it in Spring, so we knew what application rates to hit. We seeded into unmowed 2-3' grasses, laid down fert and lime, sprayed, and drove over it with the UTV tires. Deer are hammering bulbs right now still in that spot. We had luck with brassica, WW/WR, peas, oats, and clover. Corn and beans are not ideal candidates, but they're also labor intensive.

We're going to use our free time to do other equally important prep work this year. 

[phade]

Some pics of them going after these plots. Only driven piece of equipment used here was a lawn mower.

[suburbanfarmer]

Those bucks look well fed, as if just prepping for the rut.