School me on tractors

[The_Real_TCIII]

Those graboids are serious $hit

It's Footloose not Tremors lol

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, BigVal said:

No decision yet I'll probably take my time honestly this just came out down the road a ways from my place 

That 6 ft Bush-hog squealer is a good machine.  I had a 5 footer for about 20 years and what I liked best about it was the quality of the cut it made.   It cut grass nearly as neatly as a finish mower with no "streaking".    I doubt that the tractor rear tires are loaded, otherwise it probably would not have chains on in the summer, but the treads looks pretty worn.   If the tractor's clutch is good, I would say $ 4k would be a good price for the tractor and bush-hog.  It looks like a gas engine and I think they were around 48 hp.      

[Jeremy K]

7 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I think its pretty obvious what needs to happen here

 

 

Got me a new ring tone 

[stubborn1VT]

In any real world application a hydro loses significant power at the PTO.  I don't agree with your research at all.  I have SEEN a 35HP hydro that wouldn't run a 6' brushhog up a hill.  A friend of mine couldn't till sod with a 37HP hydro and a 6' tiller.  

The tests you are referencing are done at a standstill, not doing any kind of work.

[TreeGuy]

In any real world application a hydro loses significant power at the PTO.  I don't agree with your research at all.  I have SEEN a 35HP hydro that wouldn't run a 6' brushhog up a hill.  A friend of mine couldn't till sod with a 37HP hydro and a 6' tiller.  

The tests you are referencing are done at a standstill, not doing any kind of work.

It's tractordata.coms specs. I haven't know them to be wrong yet.

 

The examples you gave are interesting. I have run my BH and a tiller up and down and around hills and over and through stuff I prob shouldn't have, especially in Franklinville. Never skipped a beat. Maybe your friends aren't familiar with their tractors gear box ? Mine offers a High,med,low range and I always do heavy grunt work in low.

 

 

Are these tasks that you then saw a gear tractor of similar hp complete ?

 

 

 

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[TreeGuy]

In any real world application a hydro loses significant power at the PTO.  I don't agree with your research at all.  I have SEEN a 35HP hydro that wouldn't run a 6' brushhog up a hill.  A friend of mine couldn't till sod with a 37HP hydro and a 6' tiller.  
The tests you are referencing are done at a standstill, not doing any kind of work.

Can you get me model# of these rigs so I can also research them ?


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[stubborn1VT]

I don't know the model #s.  They weren't my machines.  In both cases these tractors were replaced with geared tractors, and the owners are happier.

  The numbers you are referencing are "correct" but only measure loss when NOT working.  It's like measuring the HP demands of your brushhog when idling in your driveway vs mowing 4' tall grass.  Those numbers are strictly measuring loss between the motor and PTO, not the loss between the motor and your brushhog blades.  

I'm just going on a lifetime of tractor driving and real world experience.  I will admit that I have limited experience with hydros.  I have been disappointed in those I have operated and seen.  You have a different experience.  If I was really worried about bucket work I would get a shuttle shift or a skidsteer.  I'm very familiar with the capabilities of gear tractors.  If I wanted the convenience of a hydro and the performance of a 30HP gear tractor, I would look for a 40HP hydro.  That's just me.

[TreeGuy]

I don't know the model #s.  They weren't my machines.  In both cases these tractors were replaced with geared tractors, and the owners are happier.
  The numbers you are referencing are "correct" but only measure loss when NOT working.  It's like measuring the HP demands of your brushhog when idling in your driveway vs mowing 4' tall grass.  Those numbers are strictly measuring loss between the motor and PTO, not the loss between the motor and your brushhog blades.  
I'm just going on a lifetime of tractor driving and real world experience.  I will admit that I have limited experience with hydros.  I have been disappointed in those I have operated and seen.  You have a different experience.  If I was really worried about bucket work I would get a shuttle shift or a skidsteer.  I'm very familiar with the capabilities of gear tractors.  If I wanted the convenience of a hydro and the performance of a 30HP gear tractor, I would look for a 40HP hydro.  That's just me.

Nail on the head.

For all around "work", not to include farming and for the average "homeowner" looking to buy 1 machine instead of a a few for specific applications, and where loader work needed, nothing can compare to the ease of a hydro along with a bunch of other benefits.

Anytime your ever shopping tractors, you want to make sure you have more than enough hp to be capable of the tasks your looking to perform taking into account hp ratings at PTO, lifting capabilities, etc.


BigVal said loader and food plots, plus I assumed a pile of basic tasks around the estate. Coming from an owner of a 30hp geared, who recently upgraded to a 40hp HST, my first hand experience is worthy of all the statements I have made. Even with any power loss, my 40hp has out performed my 30hp in ALL cases.


As far as digging into the specs, I have plenty of actual seat time on multiple hydros from sub compact to utility and have never been let down or had anything I couldn't do. I want to help BigVal in his decision / investment and didn't want to see an "old school" / farmers opinion cloud his judgment on what will actually be best for HIM. The pi$$ing match is because I've had geared, I've had hydro and for what I do "estate work" the hydro is the best option to owning a single rig that can handle all the tasks I throw at it. If he said he wanted to farm, or do forestry type work regularly , cut hay, drive up a 45° hill - both ways, etc.... I wouldn't be recommending a utility sized rig with hydro as they are not designed to do that.

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[BizCT]

@The Jerkman ever go here? https://www.arrowaytractor.com/  I think it's time we join the fun.I drove by it once and then had a ton of Kubota's for sale.

[Marion]

[mention=3682]The Jerkman[/mention] ever go here? https://www.arrowaytractor.com/  I think it's time we join the fun.I drove by it once and then had a ton of Kubota's for sale.

It is quite close. Maybe we should. We can throw some beet juice in the tires so if we get hungry or thirsty mowing your lawn we can have a nice refreshment right on hand

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[BizCT]

15 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

It is quite close. Maybe we should. We can throw some beet juice in the tires so if we get hungry or thirsty mowing your lawn we can have a nice refreshment right on hand

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Need to make sure we get one that is street legal though. I would want to be able to do hayrides to the bars.

[Marion]

Need to make sure we get one that is street legal though. I would want to be able to do hayrides to the bars.

Can drive it to Jimmy's right next door and maybe if you're lucky he'll give you some extra attention

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[wolc123]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:34 AM, TreeGuy said:

A perfect example of the need for a 4x4 for woods work. Heavy snow and ground thawed on a path I had taken the day before, but thankfully my neighbor with his 25hp sub compact w951as able to pull me out.

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This picture sheds much light on why you are so "sour" on old gear tractors.   If there ever was a tractor "lemon" as far as make/year/model, it might be the Ford 1953 "Jubilee" .   Being the first new Ford-designed tractor, after the passing of the patriarch (Henry), might have had something to do with that.   The new hydraulics, while "live", were no where near as durable as the "dead" system used on the n-series.   Input costs have always been huge with farmers, and when they discovered that they were spending more on gas with the Jubilee, and it's new "overhead valve" engine, than they were with the "fully developed" flat-heads on their 1951 and 1952 8-n's, it did not win many fans.   Ford got those bugs worked out by the time the 600 series came out in 1954, but the black-eye they suffered in 1953 allowed IH and John Deere to leave them in the dust, as far as the American tractor market share goes.   A better name for that tractor might have been the "Waterloo", or maybe the "Gettysburg".    It definitely marked the beginning of the end of the Ford Tractor company.   

Too bad because Ford was once the top American tractor company.   My dad still tells the story of when his mom was pushing his dad to buy a tractor back in the late 40's.   Someone had left him on a hay-wagon as an infant, and grandpa's team of horses took off with no one at the reigns.  He survived, but it must have been a close call.    The Ford 8n's were the most expensive, highest regarded tractors back then.  Grandpa "settled" for a much less expensive, 1950 John Deere model M.   That was also a 2-plow tractor and it did have "live-hydraulics", but the hitch was not as easy as to use as the Ford 3-point.    It was definitely a durable machine, and I still use it on occasion for food-plot work over at my folks place.

While grandpa had to "settle" for the John Deere M to work his 40 acres plus another 20 that he leased, a "rich" neighbor (he was the senior union man at the local dry-wall plant) brought home a 1951 Ford 8n to tend to his 1 acre garden).  When he passed away, I bought that Ford from his widow, when it had 1200 hours on it.   I still use it for food-plots and just finished a small one of turnips this morning.   It just turned 2000 hours.   For a few years, it was the only tractor I had and it did pretty good on a 5 foot bush-hog squealer.  Grandpa's John Deere M has no hour meter, but it has to have well over 10,000 hours on it.   It certainly shows it's wear, while my 8n is just now getting broken in.                   

Edited July 25, 2019 by wolc123

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Nail on the head.

For all around "work", not to include farming and for the average "homeowner" looking to buy 1 machine instead of a a few for specific applications, and where loader work needed, nothing can compare to the ease of a hydro along with a bunch of other benefits.

Anytime your ever shopping tractors, you want to make sure you have more than enough hp to be capable of the tasks your looking to perform taking into account hp ratings at PTO, lifting capabilities, etc.


BigVal said loader and food plots, plus I assumed a pile of basic tasks around the estate. Coming from an owner of a 30hp geared, who recently upgraded to a 40hp HST, my first hand experience is worthy of all the statements I have made. Even with any power loss, my 40hp has out performed my 30hp in ALL cases.


As far as digging into the specs, I have plenty of actual seat time on multiple hydros from sub compact to utility and have never been let down or had anything I couldn't do. I want to help BigVal in his decision / investment and didn't want to see an "old school" / farmers opinion cloud his judgment on what will actually be best for HIM. The pi$$ing match is because I've had geared, I've had hydro and for what I do "estate work" the hydro is the best option to owning a single rig that can handle all the tasks I throw at it. If he said he wanted to farm, or do forestry type work regularly , cut hay, drive up a 45° hill - both ways, etc.... I wouldn't be recommending a utility sized rig with hydro as they are not designed to do that.

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As I originally said the hst sub compact and compact are designed for the homeowner/ large estate.  Basically to mow lawns and do occasional " farm " work.. any professional farmer would have a skidsteer for loader work and a geared tractor to work fields.. you can buy the home owner version. If your not familiar with geared clutches and steering brakes and yes you will love it .. val is familiar with tractors and mowing was not in his original statement , brushhog and food plot work..  thus an older geared tractor he can get at excellent price and be more than he needs for same price as a used undersized hst.. 

It's not a pissing match ,simply recommending what was asked . And geared is absolutely way to go.. 

[airedale]

My first tractor was a early fifties beautifully restored Allis Chalmers WD 45 exactly like the one pictured below, it was an ergonomic clusterf**k but she could really pull some weight, Did not care for the snap coupler hitch AC used. Also had a loader with a trip bucket, the bucket was small and did not hold much but the system could lift some heavy weight. Had one of those crank start systems that worked pretty well if the battery happened to go dead, I had it kick back on me once and it almost broke my arm.

Edited July 25, 2019 by airedale

[BizCT]

all this tractor action, makes me want to buy an old tractor that looks cool for cheap. not sure where i would store it though lol

[G-Man]

My old.oliver in action.. well just done with action..hard to take selfie ...

[airedale]

4 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

all this tractor action, makes me want to buy an old tractor that looks cool for cheap. not sure where i would store it though lol

Collecting Classic tractors is a hobby that has been growing by leaps and bounds in recent years, there are several shows in central NY along with clubs that organize them. One of my favorite things to do is hitting those shows and looking over the old iron. State fair in Syracuse has one of the best and a few are always driven in the nightly parade around the Fairgrounds. Mecum has several televised classic tractor auctions which I find interesting. A smart shopper can purchase a nice tractor relatively cheap as compared to cars, they are fun and easy to work on and parts are readily available.

Al

[greensider]

Bought my first tractor a few months ago did some clearing with it this past weekend did a good job with mower

[TreeGuy]

Bought my first tractor a few months ago did some clearing with it this past weekend did a good job with mower

Technically a mower, as determined by this thread.

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[TreeGuy]

Another task completed. Ran the rig through some thick weeds to make a lane. What a fantastic day to have a hydro ! Field was plowed 2 years ago but never disced down. Huge ruts and bumps all over. Having an infinate amount of speeds really paid off. Didn't have to ride clutch and slow down the mower, could speed up quickly where flat, all the while plenty of power to spin the brush hog. Weeds were 6'+ tall and she never skipped a beat.

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[Jeremy K]

29 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Another task completed. Ran the rig through some thick weeds to make a lane. What a fantastic day to have a hydro ! Field was plowed 2 years ago but never disced down. Huge ruts and bumps all over. Having an infinate amount of speeds really paid off. Didn't have to ride clutch and slow down the mower, could speed up quickly where flat, all the while plenty of power to spin the brush hog. Weeds were 6'+ tall and she never skipped a beat.

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Looks like a nice shooting lane

[wolc123]

8 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Another task completed. Ran the rig through some thick weeds to make a lane. What a fantastic day to have a hydro ! Field was plowed 2 years ago but never disced down. Huge ruts and bumps all over. Having an infinate amount of speeds really paid off. Didn't have to ride clutch and slow down the mower, could speed up quickly where flat, all the while plenty of power to spin the brush hog. Weeds were 6'+ tall and she never skipped a beat.

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I remember some rough snowmobile rides over fall-plowed fields. Those were tough on the lower back no matter how slow I went.  You need a suspension on your tractor for that kind of mowing.   I have a lot of bush-hogging to do but most of our fields are flat, smooth and wide open.  My 12-speed power-reverser, John Deere gear setup works well on those.   Unless the stuff is real thick, I can usually cut in mid-range, 3rd gear (around 12 mph), dropping to mid-range 2nd gear in the thick stuff.  Running a 6 foot bush-hog is really the only time I use all of my tractor's 43 horsepower and that is the only job where I would sometimes like a little more.   To maintain that speed with a hydro would take over 50 hp and there is no real advantage to that type of transmission on flat, level, open fields.  I can see where it would be nice over rough ground or around lots of obsticals however.   

With all the trees and bushes and stuff up around our house, my hydro mower works a lot better than my gear mower most of the time.  When the grass gets real thick in rainy seasons, or if I have not got on it soon enough,  I prefer the gear because the hydro tends to bog down (I have a hydro and a gear mower, each 15 hp  with 38" decks).    Having those two equal sized machines makes it real easy for me to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of each.  Do you believe there are any applications where a gear transmission might be better ? 

     

[wolc123]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:14 PM, BigVal said:

Hi guys I am looking for a tractor to use for mostly brush hogging and some light food plot work. It will have a loader for work around the house but what is the best option for an older rig? Not really looking for something brand new with payments right now since I am remodeling the entire house lol. Just something reliable and able to do the listed tasks. Any info appreciated!

How is the search going ?   I see there is a Ferguson TO-30 on Buffalo CL right now for $ 900.  That is very similar to a Ford 8n.  It say's that it starts but needs some carburator work.   Seems like a very good price.

[TreeGuy]

I remember some rough snowmobile rides over fall-plowed fields. Those were tough on the lower back no matter how slow I went.  You need a suspension on your tractor for that kind of mowing.   I have a lot of bush-hogging to do but most of our fields are flat, smooth and wide open.  My 12-speed power-reverser, John Deere gear setup works well on those.   Unless the stuff is real thick, I can usually cut in mid-range, 3rd gear (around 12 mph), dropping to mid-range 2nd gear in the thick stuff.  Running a 6 foot bush-hog is really the only time I use all of my tractor's 43 horsepower and that is the only job where I would sometimes like a little more.   To maintain that speed with a hydro would take over 50 hp and there is no real advantage to that type of transmission on flat, level, open fields.  I can see where it would be nice over rough ground or around lots of obsticals however.   
With all the trees and bushes and stuff up around our house, my hydro mower works a lot better than my gear mower most of the time.  When the grass gets real thick in rainy seasons, or if I have not got on it soon enough,  I prefer the gear because the hydro tends to bog down (I have a hydro and a gear mower, each 15 hp  with 38" decks).    Having those two equal sized machines makes it real easy for me to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of each.  Do you believe there are any applications where a gear transmission might be better ? 
     

I can't think of one. All the power loss talk is kind of irelavent. If you know what you will need in hp, and purchase accordingly I can't ever see a regret with hydro.

My previous Kubota was a 30hp gear. I figured my 40hp hydro would be about equal, but it out performs the gear by far, pulling the same attachments and doing the exact same jobs.

Do you think there is a disadvantage to precision speed control?

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