What makes just the bucks disappear?

[Doc]

I have 22 acres behind my house in Jefferson county in the northern zone. I have owned it for 12 years and have put trail cameras out for the last 8 years.

Since I started putting out trail cameras I have always captured 1 or 2 bucks every year. Never any B&C bucks but spikes and crotch horns. I think the largest buck captured on camera was a 5 point. However last year was different. Not a single buck on camera. No buck sign on the property. Plenty of does and fawns but no bucks. Finally a spike showed up on camera in later November but by then I was hunting the southern tier and had filled my buck tag.

Fast forward to now. No bucks on camera this year either and no buck sign on the property. Plenty of does and fawns coming and going through my food plot. I have racked my brain for an explanation why the bucks have gone but I am out of ideas. Nothing on the property has changed. Have any of you ever experienced this? It is really starting to bother me.

Getting back on track with your original post, my quick answer to your question is, "Yes". I have seen dramatic changes between last year and this. And that is using the same camera locations. However, you will notice a significant drop in doe photos as well. Here's the records:

2010 Cam Data:

Total entries - 207

Bucks - 25

Does - 126

Unidentified gender - 34

Misc animals - 22

2011 Cam Data:

Total entries - 128

Bucks - 0

Does - 74

Unidentified gender - 31

Misc animals - 23

It's pretty interesting, but only shows me that patterns have shifted. Maybe it's food sources, or maybe there has been some outside influences from bikers or hikers or small game hunters. I am dealing primarily with state land, so I have a lot of influences that can change the patterns at will. I'm not too worried yet, but I do have to locate some active spots pretty soon....lol.

[hb270deermanager]

Hi sounds like everything I read tells me one of 3 things.

your property sounds like a good setup.So with that in mind.

Someone stated earlier that someone might be planting some-

thing more attractable.Or your on your property to much to many

camera's to check get just a few 2 or 3 and set them up better.

Stay clear of bedding areas or sanctuaries.Invading these areas is

a major no no.Try different foodplot menus I use double cross and

alpha rack plus from whitetail institute on my 155 acres and put out

just 5 trail cams I use cams that i can chack from my computer or

phone 2 of these would be better then the less expensive ones you

have to check.Also a big if is if someone knows a neighbor who

might be or friend whos jealous might be playing with your setup.

I have had foodplots for over 15 yrs taken many wall hangers but

have always been careful of everything I do from plot setups hunting

partners (my son).Stand locations.Most of nobody knows what I do.I

have a police officer hunting with me that helps.I under no circumstances

invade bedding and sanctuary areas.this is very important they need to

feel safe somewhere on that property.Bucks especially with avoid an

area like the plague if they feel threatened.Sometimes even the rut

doesn't help.8 yrs is a long time to not take a buck off your property

and I see your only seeing small bucks.sounds to me like their being

driven away.Good luck and change things up abit try a few new things

read through everyone posts take notes.I speak from experience.So

do most others oh one more thing if the orchard part in still producing

apples try pruning the trees cleaing the lanes and get some double

cross planted in there it will work.I planted 10 trees 15yrs ago and

have a plot through and around it and it produces my biggest bow

bucks every yr.

[Buckstopshere]

It doesn't sound to me that there is an annual breeding - scrape area on your 22 acres. You probably know every tree and bush in it...so is there a major scrape area that appears every year.

If not...you can make one. That will pull the bucks in.

Here's how you do it.

Find some hot scrapes on other property, adjacent or otherwise. Cut the licking branches off the scrapes. Zip-tie the licking branches to your best annual scrape area. You will be surprised at the action it produces.

Whiteails have specific areas where they prefer to create, what I call the Whitetail Breeding Nucleus. Some properties are perennial hotspots...and others are like yours.

You just need to change the culture of the deer in your area. If you put enough buck scent in the form or licking branches out there...they will come. And begin adding to it.

Secondly, don't shoot the doe early. Some of those old does are the most valuable buck attractors that you have. Their scent at the scrape sites is very important too. Wait until the end of the season to fill the doe tags.

If you shoot them now you are shooting your best buck bait.

[Doc]

Someone stated earlier that someone might be planting some-

thing more attractable.

Ha-ha, there's an interesting thought ....... neighborhood food plot wars.

[growalot]

to be honest I just skimmed this so may be off point ...Didn't notice mention of surrounding properties...knowing this... is some times half the battle..IE...I have zip deer on a couple of cams that had many earlier this year ..doe fawn young buck..I'd posted a few...talked to neighbor...even though I have 13 plots...they have none...my acorns are few ...they're reds are dropping like mad and have several buck on cam

Of all the buck I've shot...none were ever captured on the cams...and I have several cams out....My land holds many many doe but no resident buck...which is fine for they filter in about the second week of bow...You have to be out there hunting to see the deer you want to shoot...didn't notice a # given for times in the field...or #'s on stand/blind locations....a smart buck will pattern a well used stand....our you seeing any late deer scrapes or old ones scouting the spring...for we also rarely get rubs and big scrapes until well into gun season...just what happens...even though I have them fighting in the dark under stands during bow season.

If you regularly leave to shoot buck else where....do you know whats happening on your place when your gone?...maybe your locals do

[Doc]

One thing I noticed is that this year we don't have a lot of acorns compared to last year. That situation or the exact reverse can change deer sightings. They are critters whose patterns revolve around food. Any changes in food sources can instantly change what trails get used and what ones don't.

[Doewhacker]

"I primarily bow hunt it then kill my bucks when I go to the southern tier."

Do you hunt it during the rut or are you in the SZ for that instead? I am willing to bet on the right day you will see one moving through checking doe's. And I certainly wouldn't worry about not seeing them on the cam's, maybe they walk on the other side of the tree and you get no picture instead.

[Buckstopshere]

Doc: You might enjoy this article I wrote....on the same track as your post...

http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article_print/16398/

[Doc]

Interesting problem with the link. It came up with a "print" form on top of the article and would not let me scroll down past the first page. It's too bad because it looked like a good start to an interesting commentary.

[Doc]

Interesting problem with the link. It came up with a "print" form on top of the article and would not let me scroll down past the first page. It's too bad because it looked like a good start to an interesting commentary.

Let's try this one:

http://www.prairiest..._over_the_hill/

Good article! loved the discussion at the end. I don't want to hijack this thread, but it sure would make an interesting separate topic for discussion.

[Buckstopshere]

Thanks Doc. And it always is a good subject for discussion around the camp...

But back to this thread, he says that last year was different and that there was not one buck on camera. So it is possible that somebody "on the next hill over" has put out a food plot that is concentrating the deer. I say "food plot." A guy I know has spent thousands of dollars on a series of food plots on two adjacent properties. And his buck sightings over the years since before food plots has increased dramatically even though the deer population is actually a bit lower than it was 10 years or so ago.

But it is also possible, as you said that last year was a banner acorn year and that may have held them early...and this year, at least here in the Southern Tier is a bumper apple crop.

My long-winded point is that sometimes nature, whether agriculture or woodland mast crops have the same effect as food plots... they all change whitetai patterns in the early going.

[Dave]

I think all you who think a food plot has something to do with the lack of bucks are probably right. About 20 years ago we had the same thing happen in our hunting area. We leased about 250 acres of land in Sullivan county not far from Rt 97. Well to make a long story short the owner of the land told us the deer were few far between. There was a farmer up the road about 2 miles from where we hunted that planted corn, about 60 acres that he never planted before and bingo that's where all the deer were bucks and does.So yes I believe that food plots probably have something to do with the lack of deer sightings.

[nyantler]

I don't know G-Man, I would think some of the fawns that do frequent his food plot were bucks. You would think some of them would be showing up the next year as spikes or small racked bucks. Maybe big bucks can do disappearing acts, but the young bucks are many times less wary than does. To me it simply doesn't make sense that there are no bucks to be seen in an area that sees plenty of does and fawns. Where there is does, sooner or later a buck will be seen.

Absolutely correct...food plots wouldn't be pulling just the bucks off the property.

[RangerClay]

My bad. Even so, maybe you are just putting too much pressure on the property?

That could be.

Sorry for the long absence. Its been a long weekend of bowhunting and for some reason my Internet Explorer won't run your new format here at home. But I got it fixed.

Thank you for all the helpful comments. I'm not sure why my property has never held any of the bigger bucks, it just never has.

This year will be my 30th year in the deer woods and I still don't consider myself an expert. I was hoping someone might have some insight that I have not heard about. Thanks again for all of your help.

Edited October 3, 2011 by RangerClay

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Just remember the CWD started in deer that were confined, not wild deer. So now we can't feed the deer. How about closing down those places confining deer, for what ever reason they have them to begin with.

Another clueless statement from someone that i guess has no clue how cwd even got introduced into the state. Yes the guy had deer but the cwd was brought into the state by bringing deer heads in from out west to a ny taxidermy shop. The guy did not dispose of the shop remains as he should have and it got introduced into the deer. Cwd in a ny deer farm is the least thing that would ever happen.Any deer on any farm is tested for cwd when they die on a farm.Ny deer farms are one of if not the most tested farms in the country.If you are worried about your deer dieing from something in ny state you better worry about ehd.

[wdswtr]

Ranger Clay I have a similar property here at home in N.Tier like your situation. I have well over 100 acres and access to surounding acreage putting this piece well over 200 and all bordering land to each other. Heres what I have going on for years. Neighbor to the east has an acre foodplot and does not hunt, I have 3 food plots totaling about 2 1/4 acres. A wild apple orchard with about 50 trees in it producing a very impressive crop of apples every year, lots of red oak and few white oak, few beech etc. All woods mixed softwood and hardwoods. There are atleast 4 sections on this 200 plus acres that has pretty significant ground cover and foilage for bedding areas. Some of these areas are off limits to hunting as it is a sanctuary. Now I pretty much know every tom dick and harry in the neighborhood and we all communicate a bit on deer sightings. Now onto the deer. It varies form year to year on the number of bucks I see. Some years I will have 7 or 8 different bucks sighted either via trailcam pictures or personal observation. Other years 1. The past 2 years are in the 1 category. Last year I had 1 picture of a 7 point and I seen him once, This year I have a nice 8 point on camera. I have every year several pictures and sightings of does and fawns and most of the does have 2 fawns. It has been rare and I mean rare to start seeing good buck sign or sightings until late october. What amazes me is that anywhere from a mile to 6 miles down the road a guy has harvested or has pictures of the same bucks I have seen or gotten pictures of on my land. We all have been trying to get this nice big buck for the last 3 years and when I say we I have confirmed the buck via comparing deer cam pictures of it. It also leaves an unmistakeable hoofprint. It has a slight outward twist of one hoof print and it always show scuff marks from print to print. My point to all this, Northern tier hunting and deer is a total different world compared to most southern zone deer. As you know most farms are dried up and overgrowing leaving the deer nothing much more than wild and natural food sources minus a few of us with foodplots supplementing a few deer. Deer here in N.Tier wander and wander alot and wander far. Patterning a buck in our area because of this before the rut is not a simple task at all. But because I hold a decent doe population the bucks do come to my land. Where they are prior to this is still up for debate but I suspect they are growing and getting fat in all the various swamps and marsh land we have. So what I suspect is happening to you is pretty much the same as what happens to me here at home. The bucks are wandering and or hanging in the wetlands for a vast amount of the year leading you to think there are not any around. So then you move onto souther tier land to continue bowhunting as this is exacally what I do as well. While you are down there and the bucks are starting to get frisky they are going to go where the does are. But we are not there enough at this point in the equation to witness it. That is my best guess to what is happening and seems to be the same here on my land as well. I know there are bucks around they just are not visiting my land yet but they will be. I usually take a buck here every few years at home when I skip a few days in southern bow to hunt here or after bow closes in southern tier and rifle hunt here at home. Now another equation is neghboring lands not even necessarily bordering your land are just blasting away at whatever bucks are around. I have had this in the past as well. So the old big gray haired buck are like ghost and those young bucks that are in the freezer leaves little behind for the following season but the button bucks. 2 landowners in particular who are famous for brown and down tatics are now moved out as of this summer. Most of us remaining landowners that hunt have a verbal agreement that we want to see more mature bucks and have decided to leave the little guys alone. Hopefully what we get out of this is more bucks of various age classes. I think on of these two scenarios is your problem as well.

Edited October 3, 2011 by wdswtr

[Doc]

My long-winded point is that sometimes nature, whether agriculture or woodland mast crops have the same effect as food plots... they all change whitetai patterns in the early going.

You never know, it may also be due to some farmer putting in a crop that wasn't there before. But there was the point made that only the bucks seemed to disappear, but the does were as plentiful as always. That does make the change appear not to be habitat driven. And so the mystery continues ..... lol.

[Dave]

Just remember the CWD started in deer that were confined, not wild deer. So now we can't feed the deer. How about closing down those places confining deer, for what ever reason they have them to begin with.

Another clueless statement from someone that i guess has no clue how cwd even got introduced into the state. Yes the guy had deer but the cwd was brought into the state by bringing deer heads in from out west to a ny taxidermy shop. The guy did not dispose of the shop remains as he should have and it got introduced into the deer. Cwd in a ny deer farm is the least thing that would ever happen.Any deer on any farm is tested for cwd when they die on a farm.Ny deer farms are one of if not the most tested farms in the country.If you are worried about your deer dieing from something in ny state you better worry about ehd.

I guess you answered my clueless statement the CWD did come from confined deer in a deer farm. I didn't say how it got there ,it didn't matter I was talking where it came from and it was a deer farm. How do you introduce deer heads to deer. I am clueless on that one too.

[RangerClay]

Wdswtr,

As far as I know, No one is blasting every deer they see.

On a funny note, the last 2 years I have had a bumper crop of wild grapes on the property. I'm beginning to think the bucks are all hung-over and sleeping it off on the adjacent property.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

There were originally 2 cases. One being a deer farm were the owner also had a taxidermy shop.

[RangerClay]

I guess you answered my clueless statement the CWD did come from confined deer in a deer farm. I didn't say how it got there ,it didn't matter I was talking where it came from and it was a deer farm. How do you introduce deer heads to deer. I am clueless on that one too.

Will you guys please take CWD conversation elsewhere.

[Dave]

Will you guys please take CWD conversation elsewhere.

Not hijacking anything just answering a post. This started when someone mentioned mineral blocks to attract deer. Responses were it was illegal and could cause CWD. I posted CWD was found in deer farms where the deer were confined. Then I was quoted to be clueless, don't know where that came from. CWD did originate in deer farms where deer are confined to isolated areas not free ranging. Maybe the guy is a deer farmer. MY last word on this topic.

[Buckstopshere]

You never know, it may also be due to some farmer putting in a crop that wasn't there before. But there was the point made that only the bucks seemed to disappear, but the does were as plentiful as always. That does make the change appear not to be habitat driven. And so the mystery continues ..... lol.

We tend to look at whitetails, both bucks and does as one and the same thing...deer. But really, bucks and does behave so differently that we should consider them as coming from two separate galaxies.

What I mean is, their behavior is just opposite each others in many behavioral ways...such as herding for instance. In the fall, bucks split up their bachelor groups and does herd up.

Ranger Clay's property in question does not have bucks on it at all, except possibly during the rut when nobody is there. I would try to attract bucks with mock scrapes and rubs.

[G-Man]

I still think your habitat is condusive for does ...bucks like different habitat. there around just not on your property.... untill they need to find one to breed. but if there are a lot of doe and not many buck the doe will go look for a buck..again not on your property....

[Dave]

We watch hunting shows, read books and magazines and participate on sites like this just to learn about deer. And yet know one has them figured out yet, some things work and others don't. And then there is the time when we do everything wrong and things work out to our advantage. That's why it's called hunting, nothing is guaranteed it is what it is and luck plays a big part , being in the right place at the right time. As far as the bucks go they do what they want, some are nocternal and we never see them but they are there you just have to put in the time and have patients.