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aging the meat

2012_taco

By 2012_taco,
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Enigma Proficient

Enigma

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1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Sounds like enigma rolled off the wrong side of bed this morning.

  I will pray for you pal and I hope you feel better soon.  Good luck with your meat care research and your hunting this season. 

 

Feeling quite well this morning actually. I appreciate your concern for my well being. And my hope for you is to contunue learning and educating yourself on hunting related topics with science and fact, rather than old wives tales. Good luck to you as well this season. Best regards. 

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wolc123 Grand Master

wolc123

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1 hour ago, Enigma said:

Feeling quite well this morning actually. I appreciate your concern for my well being. And my hope for you is to contunue learning and educating yourself on hunting related topics with science and fact, rather than old wives tales. Good luck to you as well this season. Best regards. 

Speaking of old wives tales, I just listened to about 30 minutes of the Meateater podcast that Versitile posted.  In it, a credenial-ridden red-meat professor is interviewed. 

A "wives tale", that I had heard, was that you could get ahead of the rigor motis process and resulting toughness, by cutting a chunk of meat out immediately after death and cooking and eating it.

The professor says, no, that would be even tougher because the meat has to go thru rigor motis to get tender.  The stress from cutting and cooking would force the muscle fibers to a state of maximum compression, and maximum toughness, if it happens before the onset of rigor motis. 

He also said that rigor motis peaks at 4-6 hours for an average deer sized red meat animal. Most of his experience is with beef, with some on goats and lamb, but none on fish, poultry, or pork.  He said deer, also being red meat, follows the same biological laws as the domestic animals, which is his area of expertise.

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crappyice Grand Master

crappyice

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Speaking of old wives tales, I just listened to about 30 minutes of the Meateater podcast that Versitile posted.  In it, a credenial-ridden red-meat professor is interviewed. 
A "wives tale", that I had heard, was that you could get ahead of the rigor motis process and resulting toughness, by cutting a chunk of meat out immediately after death and cooking and eating it.
The professor says, no, that would be even tougher because the meat has to go thru rigor motis to get tender.  The stress from cutting and cooking would force the muscle fibers to a state of maximum compression, and maximum toughness, if it happens before the onset of rigor motis. 
He also said that rigor motis peaks at 4-6 hours for an average deer sized red meat animal. Most of his experience is with beef, with some on goats and lamb, but none on fish, poultry, or pork.  He said deer, also being red meat, follows the same biological laws as the domestic animals, which is his area of expertise.

I too listened to the podcast (while at my kids baseball game). Your process seems spot on!


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wolc123 Grand Master

wolc123

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17 minutes ago, crappyice said:


I too listened to the podcast (while at my kids baseball game). Your process seems spot on!


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I learned the importance of aging venison about 30 years ago.  A good friend of mine had been having a tough season that year. I invited him over and put him in my best stand, the last Saturday of gun season.

  He killed a 6 point buck that morning, with a good, double-lung broadside shot. It was a very healthy looking, post-rut buck.  We cut it up and froze it that night.  He still tells me that was the toughest deer he ever ate.  I guess that makes sense, per the red-meat professor's podcast.  

 

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Enigma Proficient

Enigma

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1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Speaking of old wives tales, I just listened to about 30 minutes of the Meateater podcast that Versitile posted.  In it, a credenial-ridden red-meat professor is interviewed. 

A "wives tale", that I had heard, was that you could get ahead of the rigor motis process and resulting toughness, by cutting a chunk of meat out immediately after death and cooking and eating it.

The professor says, no, that would be even tougher because the meat has to go thru rigor motis to get tender.  The stress from cutting and cooking would force the muscle fibers to a state of maximum compression, and maximum toughness, if it happens before the onset of rigor motis. 

He also said that rigor motis peaks at 4-6 hours for an average deer sized red meat animal. Most of his experience is with beef, with some on goats and lamb, but none on fish, poultry, or pork.  He said deer, also being red meat, follows the same biological laws as the domestic animals, which is his area of expertise.

Haven't had time to listen to the entire episode but I don't disagree with what I've heard so far. Very informative. And I don't disagree with your opinions on aging venison and not butchering until rigor-mortis has passed for the best quality. We just hold different views on the process. FWIW I encourage you or anyone else that hangs a deer to investigate the "tenderstretch" hanging technique. A simple alternative to traditional hanging that makes a huge difference in meat quality imho. Your's may differ lol. I'm sure we'll discuss this again in the future. In the meantime, best regards.

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Otto Mentor

Otto

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No expert here, so for what it is worth.....

It also depends on the cut of the meat and your cooking method!  If you slow braise a tough piece of meat it will get tender eventually.   If you just toss another piece on the grill and cook it fast it will REALLY depend on the cut and how it was handled.   Venison is not beef, it needs a different cooking process.  Most of the time.  I cook Venison back straps the same way I would cook a beef tenderloin.   Usually they are smaller, so less cooking time.  But I would bring both up to 124 and let rest for 10 minutes before serving.  

I’m not sure why I am getting onto his pissing match, but you are both right in your own way!   Do what works for you and if you are happy with the result then continue to do that.  If I was telling someone how to process a deer, I would say let it hang for a bit, if you can put it in the right temperature for the right amount of time.  IF you need to process right away, then do it and remember that when you go to cook that meat.  My preference is to let it hang for at least 2 or 3 days, even if I have to quarter it and put it in the fridge.  

PS: I heard that Rinella podcast and that guy was spot on.   

Enigma I just read your post and I am going to look up Tender stretch.  Always willing to learn new things. 

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jperch Collaborator

jperch

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I have talked with two professional butchers about ageing venison.  They have stressed that it is crucial to be able to control both the temperature and the humidity.  Most of us can not do this at home.  By the way some of my hunting is in Livingston County and I highly recommend Grizzly's in Hunt, NY.  He will not cut a deer until it is ready and is meticulous.  He is by far the best processor I have used and it's worth the money.  My GF is thrilled when I get a "Grizzly's deer".

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crappyice Grand Master

crappyice

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Haven't had time to listen to the entire episode but I don't disagree with what I've heard so far. Very informative. And I don't disagree with your opinions on aging venison and not butchering until rigor-mortis has passed for the best quality. We just hold different views on the process. FWIW I encourage you or anyone else that hangs a deer to investigate the "tenderstretch" hanging technique. A simple alternative to traditional hanging that makes a huge difference in meat quality imho. Your's may differ lol. I'm sure we'll discuss this again in the future. In the meantime, best regards.

Keep listening...it’s discussed I think...hang by the hocks or something?


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2012_taco Rising Star

2012_taco

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15 hours ago, Enigma said:

And my apologies to 2012_taco for hijacking his thread. Where is he by the way? Taco! Are you done yet? Inquiring minds want to know how you made out. 

I'm here, just reading everyone's comments. I cut up the deer yesterday as i knew it was going to get warmer. I didn't want to push it with the temps outside at 50+. I did check the temp of the meat and it was 45 deep in the hind quarter. That buck was one of the hardest skinning jobs I've ever done. Cold/ stiff and there was a ton of fat on it. Plus these old arthritus ridden knuckles can't grip like they used to. Most of it will be ground so the whole aging thing is a moot point. Other than the tenders and the back straps, of course! I'm going to grind it today and it will all be in the freezer soon. Thanks again for the advise and the entertainment! Lol

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The_Real_TCIII Grand Master

The_Real_TCIII

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On 11/2/2020 at 9:21 AM, 2012_taco said:

I'm here, just reading everyone's comments. I cut up the deer yesterday as i knew it was going to get warmer. I didn't want to push it with the temps outside at 50+. I did check the temp of the meat and it was 45 deep in the hind quarter. That buck was one of the hardest skinning jobs I've ever done. Cold/ stiff and there was a ton of fat on it. Plus these old arthritus ridden knuckles can't grip like they used to. Most of it will be ground so the whole aging thing is a moot point. Other than the tenders and the back straps, of course! I'm going to grind it today and it will all be in the freezer soon. Thanks again for the advise and the entertainment! Lol

Ive got the big caliper with the spikes for skinning, its a big help. Next time ill bring it over

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Kmartinson Mentor

Kmartinson

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On 11/1/2020 at 10:22 AM, Enigma said:

I could find it myself without doubt. I'm just trying to ascertain where all the "experts" on this forum go to get there info. I always looking for other's perspectives on how to get it done. Appreciate your comment with respect to Wolc but the constant self aggrandizing "experience" he spews daily could negatively influence a new hunter.

Why's it so hard? If you're always presenting yourself as an expert, yet post anecdotal shit with no evidence but are then are asked to support your position and cannot, well . . . 

Your a little personally involved. Rise above the nonsense. How about search for the answers instead of wasting time getting unregulated at forum heros? I dont know the sciences behind it. Keep it cold and dry for a couple weeks if possible. It will taste better.

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