Pure coyote, or does he have a little wolf in him?

[bkln]

....Kays said a proposal to re-introduce wolves into the Adirondacks "has basically been put on hold while we figure out the eastern wolf taxonomy.".....

I didn't even know they had such proposal on the table. From the hunting perspective that's wesome not sure if the farmers agree... :-)

[WNYBuckHunter]

They started talking about that since they started the reintroduction programs out west. Maybe even longer, but that was when I remember first hearing about it.

[ncountry]

I would rather not see the wolves reintroduced in ny. Too many horror stories of wrecked elk and deer populations esp in the north western states.Talk to some Elk guides in Idaho,montana and even colorado.

[SomervilleSlayer]

Wasn't there a study that was claiming something like 30% of the fawn population was taken by coyote's?

 

Research conducted by a team of scientists from the New York State Museumconclude that Eastern Coyotes from Maine to New Jerseycarry a significant % of Wolf Genetics. Most likely inherited from their ancesters journey through onterio and across the St. Lawrence river into upstate NY throughout the last 90 years.

 

Coyotes are NOT native to NY, however Wolves are. Coyotes are plains animals. Once the Wolves were removed from NY, there was a 50 year span of no wild canids east of the Mississippi.

 

Coyotes started to filter in to new england in the 1940's by migrating through Onterio where they interbred with Wolves and also learned the habit of praying on deer in the woodland habitat. Why did the Wolves not chase the Coyote and kill them like they do in western states. I would guess because there is no lack of game and both animals could live together in Onterio.

 

The scientists also concluded that eastern Coyotes have larger and thicker skulls then the western Coyote. More like a Wolf. This promted research of the DNA of these Coyotes and significant ammounts of Wolf DNA was found in these eastern Coyotes.

It was also found that about 1/3 of the diet of the eastern Coyote is comprised of the Whitetail deer.

 

I find it funny that there are still hunters on this Coyote forum that beleive that there are no Wolf Genetics in these eastern Coyotes and that they don''t pray on healthy mature deer. I have no doubt that, if given the option, that a Coyote would choos the slower easier meal. But i also have no doubt that these 65-75 lb hybrids, especially working as a pack, have absalutly no trouble taking down an adult, healthy whitetail.

[BizCT]

Damn, I got excited hoping to see the mount of the "91lb" yote.

[Fletch]

I too would like to see the 91 pound coyote! Biggest I have ever seen was low 60's and that was a big one. Most males I have seen or taken are in the 40 pound range and females a bit less.

 

I do believe coyotes can take down a healthy adult deer. But I think that is very location specific and weather specific. If there is ample "easier food" they will not bother adult deer for the most part. I also believe in areas of plenty of other food sources they do not take many fawns either. My area specifically coyotes have plenty of food choices and most all my does have fawns and I see them right up to yearlings and beyond.

 

Now up north a bit you get 2 months with 40 inches of snow on ground and no food sources and it is a different story.

 

I have read studies also though that say up north a bear can kill a lot more fawns than a coyote could dream about.

[PREDATE]

Research conducted by a team of scientists from the New York State Museumconclude that Eastern Coyotes from Maine to New Jerseycarry a significant % of Wolf Genetics. Most likely inherited from their ancesters journey through onterio and across the St. Lawrence river into upstate NY throughout the last 90 years.

 

Coyotes are NOT native to NY, however Wolves are. Coyotes are plains animals. Once the wolves were removed from NY, there was a 50 year span of no wild canids east of the Mississippi.

 

Coyotes started to filter in to new england in the 1940's by migrating through Onterio where they interbred with Wolves and also learned the habit of praying on deer in the woodland habitat. Why did the Wolves not chase the Coyote and kill them like they do in western states. I would guess because there is no lack of game and both animals could live together in Onterio.

 

The scientists also concluded that eastern Coyotes have larger and thicker skulls then the western Coyote. More like a Wolf. This promted research of the DNA of these Coyotes and significant ammounts of Wolf DNA was found in these eastern Coyotes.

It was also found that about 1/3 of the diet of the eastern Coyote is comprised of the Whitetail deer.

 

I find it funny that there are still hunters on this Coyote forum that beleive that there are no Wolf Genetics in these eastern Coyotes and that they don''t pray on healthy mature deer. I have no doubt that, if given the option, that a Coyote would choos the slower easier meal. But i also have no doubt that these 65-75 lb hybrids, especially working as a pack, have absalutly no trouble taking down an adult, healthy whitetail.

Gray fox are native to NY and have been in the northeast for 1000+ years. The red fox was supposedly brought from England in the 1700's but red fox have been in N.America for 1000's of years. So the team of scientists was wrong about that part.

 

I'm sure extreme hunger will compell a pack of yotes to attempt the takedown of a full grown healthy deer, but a deer can pack a whollop! A healthy buck will lay the smackdown on them yotes.

[BizCT]

Here's an interesting note. I have called in more red fox by using a doe bleat call then when I actually try to target foxes.

[SomervilleSlayer]

Gray fox are native to NY and have been in the northeast for 1000+ years. The red fox was supposedly brought from England in the 1700's but red fox have been in N.America for 1000's of years. So the team of scientists was wrong about that part.

 

I'm sure extreme hunger will compell a pack of yotes to attempt the takedown of a full grown healthy deer, but a deer can pack a whollop! A healthy buck will lay the smackdown on them yotes.

 

Good point you bring up about the Fox. So i looked up the article i was referencing for clarification. It states " Once Wolves were removed from the East, there was a 50 year period in which there were no wild canids east of the Appalachians."

 

So it specifies WILD, and Appalachians, not Mississippi.

 

Still not convinced that we did not have Fox east of the Appalachians at that point in time. Been doing a little research on that topic and can't find anything to back that up support that other then this article.

 

BTW this article was in a Feb 2010 edition of Outdoor Life pg. 51 tittled "WOLF IN COYOTE'S CLOTHING"

[Water Rat]

I was on a spring bear hunt up in New Brunswick , Canada approximately 15 years ago. As I sat there watching the bait barrel , I observed 3 coyotes milling about . What I remembered vividly was how long their legs were , which reminded me of a wolf. When the guide picked me up that night , I told him what I saw and asked him if there were wolves in this part of Canada. His answer was no . But I have no doubt that the coyotes in New Brunswick , Canada have more wolf DNA in them , than the smaller coyotes we have in New York.

[PREDATE]

Well that is a little more believable since mostly everything east of the Appalachians is the Atlantic coast(seaboard).

I think the wolves probably kept the fox population low, but not non-existant.

[josephmrtn]

thats an awesome pelt!

[WNYBuckHunter]

I was on a spring bear hunt up in New Brunswick , Canada approximately 15 years ago. As I sat there watching the bait barrel , I observed 3 coyotes milling about . What I remembered vividly was how long their legs were , which reminded me of a wolf. When the guide picked me up that night , I told him what I saw and asked him if there were wolves in this part of Canada. His answer was no . But I have no doubt that the coyotes in New Brunswick , Canada have more wolf DNA in them , than the smaller coyotes we have in New York.

Or maybe the yotes up there just get bigger to help survive in a colder, more harsh climate. Same reason the deer get bigger body wise up north and smaller the further south you go.

IMO, the only wolf in a NY coyote is Wolf 223.

[BizCT]

I was on a spring bear hunt up in New Brunswick , Canada approximately 15 years ago. As I sat there watching the bait barrel , I observed 3 coyotes milling about . What I remembered vividly was how long their legs were , which reminded me of a wolf. When the guide picked me up that night , I told him what I saw and asked him if there were wolves in this part of Canada. His answer was no . But I have no doubt that the coyotes in New Brunswick , Canada have more wolf DNA in them , than the smaller coyotes we have in New York.

Or maybe the yotes up there just get bigger to help survive in a colder, more harsh climate. Same reason the deer get bigger body wise up north and smaller the further south you go.

IMO, the only wolf in a NY coyote is Wolf 223.

Here's 2 wolves in NY.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[WNYBuckHunter]

HAHA touche!

[PREDATE]

Here's 2 wolves in NY.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Awesome mounts!  I like the Lynx too.

[wdswtr]

So what is the last date those scientist claim the wolf disappeared from NY?   And what is the date from the begining of that 50 year void?   Really curious as I recall my grandfather burying a few dead cows he found in the pasture that were mangled from a predator or two.  I also recall digging a big deep hole more than once with the loader and the next morning the holes were dug up and the carcass was shredded.  I remember seing the 4 legged creatures on more than one occasion as well,  but this was 30 to 35 years ago. Just curious if these dates have anything in common or if its another one of those denial reports from the good ole state of NY.  Makes me wonder if this was more percentage days of wolf than coyote mix back then.  Keep in mind I was a kid and gramps claimed wolf. I also recal on my other grandparents farms neighbors talking about seeing wolfs and us kids were not allowed in the back 40 alone to play.

Edited May 31, 2013 by wdswtr

[PREDATE]

 I've heard that packs of wild dogs will do more damage than coyotes. Much more aggressive and usually mangle their prey. That's not to say that what you guys saw wasn't a wolf.They were once here and thought to have been eraticated by the mid 1800s, but maybe a few did survive.

 Bounties were paid to nys residents for wolves, panthers, Etc. and the DEC still denies that panthers were ever in NYS.  Baloney!

Here's a short article I found about bounties in NYS

http://coyotes-wolves-cougars.blogspot.com/2010/10/brief-history-of-bounties-paid-to.html

Edited May 31, 2013 by PREDATE

[WNYBuckHunter]

 I've heard that packs of wild dogs will do more damage than coyotes. Much more aggressive and usually mangle their prey. That's not to say that what you guys saw wasn't a wolf.They were once here and thought to have been eraticated by the mid 1800s, but maybe a few did survive.

 Bounties were paid to nys residents for wolves, panthers, Etc. and the DEC still denies that panthers were ever in NYS.  Baloney!

Here's a short article I found about bounties in NYS

http://coyotes-wolves-cougars.blogspot.com/2010/10/brief-history-of-bounties-paid-to.html

 

When did the DEC ever deny Mountain Lions ever being in NY? They sure as heck were, but were eradicated in the late 1800s. Go look at the DEC web site, they say it right there lol.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/44564.html

[PREDATE]

LOL I'll reword my statement. The DEC has denied that there were ever "large black cats" in NYS. I wasn't speaking of cougars.

 I study NYS history quite a bit and there are many personal accounts of "large black cats".

The excerpt in the link I posted that mentions John Buck is only a small portion of written history of his hunts for "black cats" in and around Chenango/Broome Counties.

[BizCT]

LOL @ Black Cats in NY.  Of course no trail cam pics, no dead ones, etc. But they are definitely here lol.....Give me a break. 

[SteveB]

Except for "personal accounts" there are only a a couple small pockets in the US where "large black cats" have ever been proven to exist. NY is at least a 1000 plus miles from them. And they were not cougars but relatives of the smaller South American Jacaranda.

[PREDATE]

Who's to say they were never here? There was a bounty on panthers in NY.

 There weren't photos and forensic scientists 3-400 years ago

[SteveB]

Who's to say they were never here? There was a bounty on panthers in NY.

 There weren't photos and forensic scientists 3-400 years ago

 

 

A bounty on black panthers?

 

Panthers/cougars/mountain lions are all the same animal - and it's proven they lack the gene to be melanistic (black).

[PREDATE]

Panthers/cougars/mountain lions are all the same animal

cool

maybe the history books mean cougar or mtn. lion when they say panther.

but really who is to say that black cats weren't here at one point? I'm not saying they are here now, but seem to recall historical books giving mention to black ones.