Crossbow Full Inclusion Support needed

[Five Seasons]

13 hours ago, genesee_mohican said:

Together we stand, divided we fall.

This is the crown jewel that gets all the likes. Like somehow our disagreement on what should be a legal implement during archery is going to end hunting. Give me a freaking break. This isn't red state blue state. This isn't a bunch of archers joining PETA. It's an internal debate that does nothing to hurt hunters in our fight to protect our sport. I would give every single one of you the shirt off my back or help you track a deer even if it was with a crossbow. I'm a hunter first. Recruitment is up with our without crossbow and you and I feeling different about it doesn't somehow change an ounce of legislation for the NY state hunters that would do anything to take away or limit our rights. 

I'd go so far as saying this. Instead of giving your hard earned dollars to the NYCC or NYB, why not give it to the NY BHA? How about giving it to SCOPE? Better yet, volunteer at one of the public land trail cleanup events. Even better, mentor a new hunter. There's a few members here who run farm to table programs and practice the 3 R's. If you're so worried about "divided we fall" and unfounded claims of a dying sport, then that should be your focus. Not the f'n crossbow.

Tell me how giving money to those organizations whose sole intent is to recruit and protect the lands and sport isn't better than giving it to a bunch of lobbyists who are backed by billion dollar corporations intent on selling crossbows or compounds so you can hunt "differently". 

 

I'll wait and tell me if i'm missing something please let me know.

[mike103]

Dude you call this a success!!

[mike103]

The numbers are only up because of covid.

And Xbox is already legal. That’s not the argument. The argument is access. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by mike103
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[luberhill]

15 hours ago, mike103 said:

Only in New York would hunters fight for less access by hunters that want to use a different legal hunting implement.

The sport is dying and people here are upset that children have their own season, that people want to use a different type of bow, they want their season longer and others season shorter. 
 

I have never see a bunch of self absorbed selfish narcissistic people in my life.

And they do all this using a modern bow that has no resemblance to a primitive weapon while hanging from a tree out of sight of the prey with some sort of smug self righteousness. 
 

It’s really kind of pathetic to listen to.  
 

 

 

 

100 percent 

[9jNYstarkOH]

59 minutes ago, Belo said:

use a different legal hunting implement? That's the point dude, until recently it wasn't legal and that's the whole debate here. Should it be legal. Can I spear hunt too? What about atlatl? air powered bolt guns? Those are all "legal" in some states. Why are they out and the crossbow in? Why is it confusing for you that the argument is over "if" it should be legal?

Now lets move on to your claim of this dying sport. here are the statistics:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

License sales have actually increased 30k in NY since 2006. So help me understand how the sport is dying? Over 150k hunters bought an archery tag last year. 

Last year the pandemic tripled the sale https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/121334.html

 

Do you know of anywhere to find the archery license sales data for the past 14 years. Curious to see if archery participation is tracking with overall hunting participation,  increasing, or decreasing.

Edited April 8, 2021 by 9jNYstarkOH

[mike103]

Here is the stats from DEC on deer harvest numbers and implement.

[mike103]

Look at the youth hunt. Something the NYS Bowhunters fought against. 
 

1,000 deer!!

That’s it only 1k deer and they don’t want it.

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, mike103 said:

Dude you call this a success!!

IF we're using 06 and 07 as a low point and even if you excluded 19, the numbers have generally risen since 2011. How is this data BAD?

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, mike103 said:

Here is the stats from DEC on deer harvest numbers and implement.

is math an issue for you, bowhunting numbers are up 17%... and even more vs the 5 year average. How is this indication of a dying sport?

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, mike103 said:

The numbers are only up because of covid.

And Xbox is already legal. That’s not the argument. The argument is access. 

what about ps5? can i play that too?

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, luberhill said:

100 percent 

If you can now hunt 2 weeks a year with a crossbow (the best weeks btw), how is not expanding the season limiting hunter access? Who isn't buying a tag or crossbow because they can't hunt the whole season and also sitting out gun season? 

2 hours ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

Do you know of anywhere to find the archery license sales data for the past 14 years. Curious to see if archery participation is tracking with overall hunting participation,  increasing, or decreasing.

i looked long and hard and couldn't find it. I know i've seen it though. Probably in the management report pdf. But if harvest numbers are up over 10k, one would assume so are licenses. 

[mike103]

Dude 2011 is 570 and 2017 is 571??

Again that’s our bid success??

[mike103]

13 minutes ago, Belo said:

what about ps5? can i play that too?

Have no idea what you are referring to.

[9jNYstarkOH]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

I looked long and hard and couldn't find it. I know i've seen it though. Probably in the management report pdf. But if harvest numbers are up over 10k, one would assume so are licenses. 

I aslo looked for a while for archery licenses sold, including in the management report. I can find harvest data but not archery licenses sold which would be the only way to truly know if archery participation is maintaining, growing or declining.

Edited April 8, 2021 by 9jNYstarkOH

[Five Seasons]

1 minute ago, mike103 said:

Dude 2011 is 570 and 2017 is 571??

Again that’s our bid success??

come on man, look at the trend. Lows in the mid 50's, highs in the 90's. Statistically speaking we have grown. Here's a graph i just made. It may not be a boom, but it's hardly indicative of a dying sport. And these include all hunting. I bet archery is significantly higher.

[mike103]

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

is math an issue for you, bowhunting numbers are up 17%... and even more vs the 5 year average. How is this indication of a dying sport?

So here’s a maths issue for you.

Bow take is up about 8k.

Xbow take is 10k.

Our yearly deer take is almost the same every year about 220K.

But more hunters chose to use a bow. At least 8k more.

But at least 10k chose to use a Xbow.

And the DEC survey showed that most hunters support the use of Xbows.

It’s called freedom.

And they chose it.

 

[mike103]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

come on man, look at the trend. Lows in the mid 50's, highs in the 90's. Statistically speaking we have grown. Here's a graph i just made. It may not be a boom, but it's hardly indicative of a dying sport. And these include all hunting. I bet archery is significantly higher.

Yes I agree more people are bow hunting because of increased access and bows are now easier to shoot. 
 

Just like Xbow. More access and easier to shoot. 
 

Com’on Man we heard all these arguments when compound bows came out.

 

[Five Seasons]

another interesting graph on the health of deer hunting in NY

[Four Seasons]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

This is the crown jewel that gets all the likes. Like somehow our disagreement on what should be a legal implement during archery is going to end hunting. Give me a freaking break. This isn't red state blue state. This isn't a bunch of archers joining PETA. It's an internal debate that does nothing to hurt hunters in our fight to protect our sport. I would give every single one of you the shirt off my back or help you track a deer even if it was with a crossbow. I'm a hunter first. Recruitment is up with our without crossbow and you and I feeling different about it doesn't somehow change an ounce of legislation for the NY state hunters that would do anything to take away or limit our rights. 

I'd go so far as saying this. Instead of giving your hard earned dollars to the NYCC or NYB, why not give it to the NY BHA? How about giving it to SCOPE? Better yet, volunteer at one of the public land trail cleanup events. Even better, mentor a new hunter. There's a few members here who run farm to table programs and practice the 3 R's. If you're so worried about "divided we fall" and unfounded claims of a dying sport, then that should be your focus. Not the f'n crossbow.

Tell me how giving money to those organizations whose sole intent is to recruit and protect the lands and sport isn't better than giving it to a bunch of lobbyists who are backed by billion dollar corporations intent on selling crossbows or compounds so you can hunt "differently". 

 

I'll wait and tell me if i'm missing something please let me know.

Your talking bullshit again.  You don’t want Xbow because YOU don’t like it. Period.       An Xbow season of its own during bow seasons would be like muzzy season happing during gun season. Just all implemented with their own tags.   

[Five Seasons]

7 minutes ago, mike103 said:

Yes I agree more people are bow hunting because of increased access and bows are now easier to shoot. 
 

Just like Xbow. More access and easier to shoot. 
 

Com’on Man we heard all these arguments when compound bows came out.

 

that is a totally subjective take. None of us have any facts or data to show why archery hunting is up, hell you don't even need an archery tag for crossbow, so unless we can find the sales by implement by season we can't even continue this. 

glad you're at least off your "its dying" stump though. 

[Five Seasons]

4 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Your talking bullshit again.  You don’t want Xbow because YOU don’t like it. Period.       An Xbow season of its own during bow seasons would be like muzzy season happing during gun season. Just all implemented with their own tags.   

uh yeah captain obvious, isn't it clear that i don't like them and that's why i dont want them lol

Edited April 8, 2021 by Belo

[NYBowhunter]

I still don't see why we need graphs and stats. , we have a slight upward trend in the recruitment of hunters, that's great. But I still have not heard one valid reason as to why we should not include crossbow in the archery season, what are you bowhunters so scared of? I have not heard one valid reason? I just don't get it. Why the kickback?

[mike103]

This graph was taken from a year 2000 report about deer hunting in NYS. 
 

Notice we are now below the graph they used. 

[mike103]

Just now, NYBowhunter said:

I still don't see why we need graphs and stats. , we have a slight upward trend in the recruitment of hunters, that's great. But I still have not heard one valid reason as to why we should not include crossbow in the archery season, what are you bowhunters so scared of? I have not heard one valid reason? I just don't get it. Why the kickback?

A very good question. 

[Four Seasons]

39 minutes ago, NYBowhunter said:

I still don't see why we need graphs and stats. , we have a slight upward trend in the recruitment of hunters, that's great. But I still have not heard one valid reason as to why we should not include crossbow in the archery season, what are you bowhunters so scared of? I have not heard one valid reason? I just don't get it. Why the kickback?

  Did you not hear Belo. It’s because HE does not like them. Gives you all the info you need to know about that one and the big picture of hunting.