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Crossbow Full Inclusion Support needed


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21 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

So you would have no problems if Xbow was it’s own weapon with its own tag and started on October 1 and ran until opening of gun?

where did you get that from? I don't want xbow in the archery season. I didn't want what we have now, but I accept it. 

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Sometimes when I read something, I just have to chuckle a little. This is one of those times. I have been, and continue to be a bowhunter for almost 40 years. Did my mentality suddenly change, th

Done ,  I like my compound but have a couple of older hunters that cant draw bow back well anymore , miss having them in camp for whole archery season. Anything that let's them hunt more in better wea

This here, is my main issue with with the whole crossbow debate. One group of hunters calling another group of hunters "inferior" because they choose a different 'legal' hunting implement, or tool, to

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45 minutes ago, Belo said:

where did you get that from? I don't want xbow in the archery season. I didn't want what we have now, but I accept it. 

Exactly. You don’t want other people in your woods regardless. So even though it is quiet... like Bow. Would not have a friggin effect on your hunting in the least...unless you are scared I am going to shoot YOUR deer... why would you give two shits who hunts those dates with a Xbow?

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48 minutes ago, Belo said:

where did you get that from? I don't want xbow in the archery season. I didn't want what we have now, but I accept it. 

  Any it won’t be just Archery season.  It will be both Xbow and any other string just different season and tags. 

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I don’t find hunting with a compound any great challenge. I started in the ‘80s with a Golden Eagle , shot it fingers ,off a flipper rest with a single brass pin sight, 2117s with feathers two blade  Mangus  . Killed a buck my first year and most years since . Used that set up 18 years .

I can pick up,the bow after months and shoot just as well as ever .

One neat thing about having worked for the FD is there’s tons of hunters , and each year ,guys pick,up a bow for the first time , many kill deer their first year . We shot at work and newbies are hitting a dollar Bill at 20 yards from the get go . 
 

I know many who don’t shoot their compound till just before the season starts or sometimes after , as they wait for the rut to,hunt . 
 

Most I know started bow hunting ,because its easier to get a chance at at bigger buck . Some of you fellas are acting like you grow your own Yew tree , flint Knapp the heads , and caught the fish for the strings .

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Why would YOU CARE what somebody else thinks something is?  Is somebody going to shoot your deer with a crossbow before you get a crack with a compound?  

We can go back to recurve as far as I'm concerned -I'll get my share no matter what.
-you'll never convince me that crossbow is similar or close to recurve or compound
-since you calling me scarred ,If you really wanna know who's scared it's the cross gun people of HAVING A TAG SOUP it never happens here -maybe we can go back to spears!!!


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3 minutes ago, Rowdy10 said:


We can go back to recurve as far as I'm concerned -I'll get my share no matter what.
-you'll never convince me that crossbow is similar or close to recurve or compound
-since you calling me scarred ,If you really wanna know who's scared it's the cross gun people of HAVING A TAG SOUP it never happens here -maybe we can go back to spears!!!


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Riiiiight!  

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Only in New York would hunters fight for less access by hunters that want to use a different legal hunting implement.

The sport is dying and people here are upset that children have their own season, that people want to use a different type of bow, they want their season longer and others season shorter. 
 

I have never see a bunch of self absorbed selfish narcissistic people in my life.

And they do all this using a modern bow that has no resemblance to a primitive weapon while hanging from a tree out of sight of the prey with some sort of smug self righteousness. 
 

It’s really kind of pathetic to listen to.  
 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Belo said:

Well this is the main point of contention though. Archery season was started way back in the day to create a challenge for hunters looking for it. Yes the compound has grown in technology quite a bit since the archery season began, but the essence is still supposed to be about hunter challenge. What's lost by many (outside elderly and disability) is that archery is just another season and it's only intention is to fill harvest quotas. That's not the original intent and shouldn't be now. 

For many the crossbow tips the scales in an already challenging world for what is increasingly a gray area where food plots, gps, trail cams, cell cams, tree stands etc have vastly changed the archery world as it was when I started just 15 years ago, let alone what it looked like decades ago upon inception. 

As difficult as this  is for many to digest, the reward of for an archery kill, especially a mature kill is that it's really freaking hard. Keep diminishing the difficulty and the "I shot a nice 8 during archery" isn't as special anymore. This is labeled as elitest, which is a tag I've gladly accepted in past discussions because that, in my opinion is what archery is supposed to be about. The elite wanting to challenge themselves to bring a deer within 30 yards without being winded, draw without being seen and release an arrow that hits its mark. Within the rules archers can challenge themselves further with recurves, with hunting public land, with raising the floor of what they are targeting. This is hunter choice. The crossbow however for me swerves outside of the yellow lines into the oncoming traffic lane that is gun season because the range is significantly greater and there is no draw and considerably less practice to be able to hit your mark in a high pressure situation. These difference vary significantly from the differences between compound and recurve. 

This is getting old.

 I don't care what others hunt with during bow season. Bow, recurve, long bow, crossbow.  Go  out and have fun, I know I will be enjoying life to the fullest. And If I am out hunting public land during the last few weeks or the archery season and I come across a stranger carrying a crossbow, I don't see an interior hunter. I see a friend with the same deer hunting interest as me. 

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

Exactly. You don’t want other people in your woods regardless. So even though it is quiet... like Bow. Would not have a friggin effect on your hunting in the least...unless you are scared I am going to shoot YOUR deer... why would you give two shits who hunts those dates with a Xbow?

i've answered this and similar questions 100 times. You just don't like the answer. I'm not going to rehash it.

17 hours ago, Nomad said:

I don’t find hunting with a compound any great challenge. I started in the ‘80s with a Golden Eagle , shot it fingers ,off a flipper rest with a single brass pin sight, 2117s with feathers two blade  Mangus  . Killed a buck my first year and most years since . Used that set up 18 years .

I can pick up,the bow after months and shoot just as well as ever .

One neat thing about having worked for the FD is there’s tons of hunters , and each year ,guys pick,up a bow for the first time , many kill deer their first year . We shot at work and newbies are hitting a dollar Bill at 20 yards from the get go . 
 

I know many who don’t shoot their compound till just before the season starts or sometimes after , as they wait for the rut to,hunt . 
 

Most I know started bow hunting ,because its easier to get a chance at at bigger buck . Some of you fellas are acting like you grow your own Yew tree , flint Knapp the heads , and caught the fish for the strings .

Let me be clear. It was not my intent to imply that archery hunting was some extremely difficult and impossible thing. I'm comparing it to gun hunting and crossbow hunting. We've had this debate and except for a few odd balls, it is agreed upon that archery is the hardest of the 3. So when looking at deer hunting as a sport in its entirety, the successful archery harvest is generally revered as the most challenging. Now this is a very broad general statement and I understand that taking a deer with a rifle in the Adirondacks is probably harder than a LI bow kill. Public vs private, etc. etc. But I'm trying to make a general case and I don't think anyone disagrees. One of the great things about hunting is that there are so many variables.

I'd also say this, I baulk at your claims that guys just pick up a bow, start shooting bulls out of the gate and then kill a buck from a stand first try. Sorry, but unless they're hunting some primo unpressured land I just don't buy it. Did I shoot a buck my first year archery hunting? Yes. Did I practice for months prior? yes. Had I already been hunting 6 or so years? yes. Did I liver hit that buck because of my novice misjudgment of POA? yes. Was that buck a yearling 7 pointer? yes.

To say that anyone can just pick up a modern compound and walk into the woods and become a buck slayer is irresponsible and bs. 

And if you've been archery hunting for 10 years, then yes it's not hard to start flinging arrows a few weeks before the season and feel comfortable. It's not exactly riding a bike, but it's not like you start from scratch each season either.

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14 hours ago, mike103 said:

Only in New York would hunters fight for less access by hunters that want to use a different legal hunting implement.

The sport is dying and people here are upset that children have their own season, that people want to use a different type of bow, they want their season longer and others season shorter. 
 

I have never see a bunch of self absorbed selfish narcissistic people in my life.

And they do all this using a modern bow that has no resemblance to a primitive weapon while hanging from a tree out of sight of the prey with some sort of smug self righteousness. 
 

It’s really kind of pathetic to listen to.  
 

 

 

 

use a different legal hunting implement? That's the point dude, until recently it wasn't legal and that's the whole debate here. Should it be legal. Can I spear hunt too? What about atlatl? air powered bolt guns? Those are all "legal" in some states. Why are they out and the crossbow in? Why is it confusing for you that the argument is over "if" it should be legal?

Now lets move on to your claim of this dying sport. here are the statistics:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

License sales have actually increased 30k in NY since 2006. So help me understand how the sport is dying? Over 150k hunters bought an archery tag last year. 

Last year the pandemic tripled the sale https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/121334.html

 

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13 hours ago, genesee_mohican said:

Together we stand, divided we fall.

This is the crown jewel that gets all the likes. Like somehow our disagreement on what should be a legal implement during archery is going to end hunting. Give me a freaking break. This isn't red state blue state. This isn't a bunch of archers joining PETA. It's an internal debate that does nothing to hurt hunters in our fight to protect our sport. I would give every single one of you the shirt off my back or help you track a deer even if it was with a crossbow. I'm a hunter first. Recruitment is up with our without crossbow and you and I feeling different about it doesn't somehow change an ounce of legislation for the NY state hunters that would do anything to take away or limit our rights. 

I'd go so far as saying this. Instead of giving your hard earned dollars to the NYCC or NYB, why not give it to the NY BHA? How about giving it to SCOPE? Better yet, volunteer at one of the public land trail cleanup events. Even better, mentor a new hunter. There's a few members here who run farm to table programs and practice the 3 R's. If you're so worried about "divided we fall" and unfounded claims of a dying sport, then that should be your focus. Not the f'n crossbow.

Tell me how giving money to those organizations whose sole intent is to recruit and protect the lands and sport isn't better than giving it to a bunch of lobbyists who are backed by billion dollar corporations intent on selling crossbows or compounds so you can hunt "differently". 

 

I'll wait and tell me if i'm missing something please let me know.

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The numbers are only up because of covid.

And Xbox is already legal. That’s not the argument. The argument is access. 

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15 hours ago, mike103 said:

Only in New York would hunters fight for less access by hunters that want to use a different legal hunting implement.

The sport is dying and people here are upset that children have their own season, that people want to use a different type of bow, they want their season longer and others season shorter. 
 

I have never see a bunch of self absorbed selfish narcissistic people in my life.

And they do all this using a modern bow that has no resemblance to a primitive weapon while hanging from a tree out of sight of the prey with some sort of smug self righteousness. 
 

It’s really kind of pathetic to listen to.  
 

 

 

 

100 percent 

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59 minutes ago, Belo said:

use a different legal hunting implement? That's the point dude, until recently it wasn't legal and that's the whole debate here. Should it be legal. Can I spear hunt too? What about atlatl? air powered bolt guns? Those are all "legal" in some states. Why are they out and the crossbow in? Why is it confusing for you that the argument is over "if" it should be legal?

Now lets move on to your claim of this dying sport. here are the statistics:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

License sales have actually increased 30k in NY since 2006. So help me understand how the sport is dying? Over 150k hunters bought an archery tag last year. 

Last year the pandemic tripled the sale https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/121334.html

 

Do you know of anywhere to find the archery license sales data for the past 14 years. Curious to see if archery participation is tracking with overall hunting participation,  increasing, or decreasing.

Edited by 9jNYstarkOH
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Look at the youth hunt. Something the NYS Bowhunters fought against. 
 

1,000 deer!!

That’s it only 1k deer and they don’t want it.

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3 hours ago, mike103 said:

Dude you call this a success!!

3B47EB0D-0D82-4D7D-938F-F740B891A327.png

IF we're using 06 and 07 as a low point and even if you excluded 19, the numbers have generally risen since 2011. How is this data BAD?

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1 hour ago, mike103 said:

Here is the stats from DEC on deer harvest numbers and implement.

3B98EC5E-DDEC-41C9-B1F5-8EEE28F58170.png

is math an issue for you, bowhunting numbers are up 17%... and even more vs the 5 year average. How is this indication of a dying sport?

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3 hours ago, mike103 said:

The numbers are only up because of covid.

And Xbox is already legal. That’s not the argument. The argument is access. 

what about ps5? can i play that too?

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2 hours ago, luberhill said:

100 percent 

If you can now hunt 2 weeks a year with a crossbow (the best weeks btw), how is not expanding the season limiting hunter access? Who isn't buying a tag or crossbow because they can't hunt the whole season and also sitting out gun season? 

2 hours ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

Do you know of anywhere to find the archery license sales data for the past 14 years. Curious to see if archery participation is tracking with overall hunting participation,  increasing, or decreasing.

i looked long and hard and couldn't find it. I know i've seen it though. Probably in the management report pdf. But if harvest numbers are up over 10k, one would assume so are licenses. 

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13 minutes ago, Belo said:

what about ps5? can i play that too?

Have no idea what you are referring to.

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10 minutes ago, Belo said:

I looked long and hard and couldn't find it. I know i've seen it though. Probably in the management report pdf. But if harvest numbers are up over 10k, one would assume so are licenses. 

I aslo looked for a while for archery licenses sold, including in the management report. I can find harvest data but not archery licenses sold which would be the only way to truly know if archery participation is maintaining, growing or declining.

Edited by 9jNYstarkOH
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