Here is where our taxes go for Education

[Ford]

Don't me get me started on that non-sense. When they started teh pension in the 1920's no one was making that much and the life expectancy was much shorter. Yes, they should have never amended the consitution but that doesn't make it right. The constitution needs to be revised to correct that mistake

What non-sense?

That was the answer to a question.

[Dave]

Don't me get me started on that non-sense. When they started teh pension in the 1920's no one was making that much and the life expectancy was much shorter. Yes, they should have never amended the consitution but that doesn't make it right. The constitution needs to be revised to correct that mistake

We have to change things and soon!!!!!!!!!!!

There are two threats to your pension:

1) Market risk. The ability of the NYS Teachers" Retirement System to continue paying benefits depends on the management of the funds collected from school boards and members. Obviously, the downturn in the stock maket over the last 18 months has had an impact on the retirement fund. Click here to read the statement issued by the NYS Teachers' Retirement System.

2) Legal risk. Did you notice the part of the retirement board's statement linked above which said: "Despite market volatility, you can rest assured your retirement fund is safe, secure and guaranteed by the New York State Constitution."? It's important to understand that NY is the ONLY state to provide a constitutional guarantee that your pension, once earned, cannot be reduced.

That constitutional guarantee may disappear, however, if a constitutional convention is held. A convention could eliminate this protection for our pensions, and there are lots of folks out there who want to do just that! Here's a statement from NYSUT:

"Here in New York, the protection of public pensions goes all the way back to 1938, when voters amended the New York State Constitution to guarantee pension benefits. That's why holding a constitutional convention could be so dangerous....

We are the only state in the nation with a constitutional guarantee that one's pension benefits cannot be reduced. If there is a constitutional convention, the constitutional guarantee for all public employees, in-service and retired members, could be removed. If New York legislators truly want to reform certain lawmaking procedures like budget preparation ..., all they have to do is pass individual bills targeting the specific procedures they want to reform."

In addition, there is talk of doing away with our traditional "defined-benefit" pension system, and replacing it with a "defined-contribution" system, such as the 401k's that lost so much of their worth during the stock market downturn. According to NYSUT:

[wooffer]

This paragraph from the Empire Center Report says it all:

http://www.empirecen...ion.12.2010.pdf

The cost of replicating a stream of income equaling a typical public pension would

be prohibitive for a private sector worker approaching retirement. For example, as of

2009-10, the median retirement age for teachers in NYSTRS was just over 59, and the

median annual pension benefit was $47,000. A male private-sector worker would

need to save $860,000 to purchase a guaranteed lifetime annuity paying the same income

stream starting at the same age.

15 Teachers in New York City suburbs retiring

in their mid-50s can qualify for a stream of pension income that would cost $1.2 million

to replicate as an annuity.

16 These figures do not include the value of heavily

employer-subsidized health insurance coverage, which most teachers also continue

to receive throughout retirement. Retiree health insurance coverage is now even

more rare than DB pensions in the private sector.

17

Edited March 8, 2012 by wooffer

[Pav2704]

Woofer,

Here's some facts about where the Teachers' Pensions actually comes from.

• 
  The Claim: Taxpayers are shouldering the burden of paying lavish public pensions.
  The Facts: Over the last 20 years, investment returns accounted for 86% of NYSTRS' income. During this same time period, the System took in $13.9 billion in member and employer contributions but paid out $54.4 billion – all while net assets more than doubled, from $27 billion to $72.5 billion.
  
• 
  The Claim: Legislatively mandated employer contributions to public pension systems are bankrupting employers.
  The Facts: While employer contribution rates (ECRs) have been on the rise of late due to recent financial market declines, NYSTRS' ECRs have been in single digits for 21 (and soon to be 22) consecutive years. In eight of those years the rate was less than 4%; in six of the eight it was less than 1.5%. For three consecutive years earlier in this decade, the rate was less than 0.5%.
  

Here's another link to show you where the money actually comes from for NYS Teacher Pensions.

http://www.nystrs.org/main/library/NYSTRS-Dollar.pdf

If you are going to make broad statements, at least have the facts correct!

[sits in trees]

Woofer,

Here's some facts about where the Teachers' Pensions actually comes from.

• The Claim: Taxpayers are shouldering the burden of paying lavish public pensions.
  The Facts: Over the last 20 years, investment returns accounted for 86% of NYSTRS' income. During this same time period, the System took in $13.9 billion in member and employer contributions but paid out $54.4 billion – all while net assets more than doubled, from $27 billion to $72.5 billion.
  
• The Claim: Legislatively mandated employer contributions to public pension systems are bankrupting employers.
  The Facts: While employer contribution rates (ECRs) have been on the rise of late due to recent financial market declines, NYSTRS' ECRs have been in single digits for 21 (and soon to be 22) consecutive years. In eight of those years the rate was less than 4%; in six of the eight it was less than 1.5%. For three consecutive years earlier in this decade, the rate was less than 0.5%.
  

Here's another link to show you where the money actually comes from for NYS Teacher Pensions.

http://www.nystrs.or...STRS-Dollar.pdf

If you are going to make broad statements, at least have the facts correct!

so everythings just honky dory then, boy i wonder why my school tax bill went from 4200 to 7900 bucks in just 6 years, and thats just my school tax bill not including town...hows that for a fact. ohh heres another since you are on a fact hunt, my elderly neighbor had to go back to work at the age of 68 because she could not pay her school tax bill anymore. ohhh here is one more, a good freind of mine tax bill went from 7K to 13000 in just 5 years and his business as a contractor has slowed to a snails pace and he cant sell his house to escape paying teachers salaries anymore and will likely foreclose on a house he's owned for 32 years.....i got more, this state is just loaded with them but it seems teachers have become so pompouse they cant see any of that and have the ole, well let them eat cake attitude...

[Pav2704]

Sits in trees,

I find it very hard to believe that your school taxes went up 88% over the last six years. Most school budgets only increase on average around 5%. That would mean that your school's budget passed an increase of close to 15 to 20% every year. I don't think so. If that was truly the case, why don't you grieve your taxes??? Since property values have dropped drastically, you should definately be able to save money after your grievance. But what do I know? I'm just a "pompouse" teacher!

[Dave]

Sits in trees,

I find it very hard to believe that your school taxes went up 88% over the last six years. Most school budgets only increase on average around 5%. That would mean that your school's budget passed an increase of close to 15 to 20% every year. I don't think so. If that was truly the case, why don't you grieve your taxes??? Since property values have dropped drastically, you should definately be able to save money after your grievance. But what do I know? I'm just a "pompouse" teacher!

You are a pompouse teacher!!!!! My house was appraised at $615,000 about 5 years ago now it's appraised at $450,000 and I pay more taxes now, than when it was appraised at $615,000. Tell me how that works??? Plus the values are just BS any way.

[Doc]

Sits in trees,

I find it very hard to believe that your school taxes went up 88% over the last six years. Most school budgets only increase on average around 5%. That would mean that your school's budget passed an increase of close to 15 to 20% every year. I don't think so. If that was truly the case, why don't you grieve your taxes??? Since property values have dropped drastically, you should definately be able to save money after your grievance. But what do I know? I'm just a "pompouse" teacher!

I know you can grieve your assessment, but I don't believe there is a process for grieving taxes. As far as plummeting property values, I have yet to ever see that reflected in assessments. Assessment is like a ratchet .... it only works in one direction. Also, property values only affect assessment. It's the tax rates constantly crank up the tax bill, and that is something you only get to contest when school budgets are up for vote. Funny thing about those votes though .... when the budget gets turned down, you can almost count on it coming back at you for a revote. The difference? ..... a little tinkering around the edges that barely touches the bottom line and certainly no reflected effort that involves any fundamental study involving efficiency and frugality. These school administrators have worked this all out to a science and they know exactly how to push a budget through.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I know you can grieve your assessment, but I don't believe there is a process for grieving taxes. As far as plummeting property values, I have yet to ever see that reflected in assessments. Assessment is like a ratchet .... it only works in one direction.

You are correct Doc. You can greive the assessment only. I did it 2 years ago and had sales back up form 5 houses in the immediate area. Comparable property that sold for less than my new appraisal. I also had a realestate friend of mine do an appraisal of my house. I presented and got turned down. the only recourse I had at that point was to take them to court and that would have cost me more that the increase i was fighting.

[Dave]

so everythings just honky dory then, boy i wonder why my school tax bill went from 4200 to 7900 bucks in just 6 years, and thats just my school tax bill not including town...hows that for a fact. ohh heres another since you are on a fact hunt, my elderly neighbor had to go back to work at the age of 68 because she could not pay her school tax bill anymore. ohhh here is one more, a good freind of mine tax bill went from 7K to 13000 in just 5 years and his business as a contractor has slowed to a snails pace and he cant sell his house to escape paying teachers salaries anymore and will likely foreclose on a house he's owned for 32 years.....i got more, this state is just loaded with them but it seems teachers have become so pompouse they cant see any of that and have the ole, well let them eat cake attitude...

Just for the record my house is just a 4 bedroom cape cod house.

[Geno C]

You are correct Doc. You can greive the assessment only. I did it 2 years ago and had sales back up form 5 houses in the immediate area. Comparable property that sold for less than my new appraisal. I also had a realestate friend of mine do an appraisal of my house. I presented and got turned down. the only recourse I had at that point was to take them to court and that would have cost me more that the increase i was fighting.

i paid a company to grieve my taxes and my taxes went down... you can absolutely do a tax grievance.

[Dave]

i paid a company to grieve my taxes and my taxes went down... you can absolutely do a tax grievance.

But you have to grieve them every year or they go right back up to where they or more.

[Geno C]

ill let you know next year, this years tax bill reflects the changes... i really hope that is not the case where they go back up. i never heard of that tho where they will go back up the following year after a grievance.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

ill let you know next year, this years tax bill reflects the changes... i really hope that is not the case where they go back up. i never heard of that tho where they will go back up the following year after a grievance.

So your rate /$1,000 was decreased on the bill? You are paying a lower rate /1,000 than your neighbor?. It wasn't the assessed value that was reduced?

[Geno C]

So your rate /$1,000 was decreased on the bill? You are paying a lower rate /1,000 than your neighbor?. It wasn't the assessed value that was reduced?

Assesed value is the same as the day i bought it 3 years ago... I thought An assesor would come to reasses and base taxes off of the value but obviously current market value on home is down across the board so im sure that plays a big role in tax grievance but no assesor per say reassed my home.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the assessed value may be but the determination of the FMV may not be. I am not doubting you Geno and I am not lawyer or accountant but I find it hard to believe a reduction was reached based on the tax rate.

.

Unequal Assessment: This is the most common grounds of the four. It is where the assessed value is at a higher percentage of value than the assessed value of other real property on the assessment roll, at a higher percentage of FMV than the assessed value of ALL real property on the assessment roll; Alternatively, it is a situation where the property should be assessed at a lower percentage of FMV based on either the latest state equalization rate for the city/town/village, the latest RAR established for the city/town/village, or other technical grounds

[wooffer]

Nassau county stopped re-assessing your taxes annually after Mangano took over. That was Suozzi's trick to raise taxes each year. You can hold the line on your taxes by simply voting "NO" and getting your neighbors to vote "NO" on your annual school budget. The budget will still be raised but you will slow the bleeding.

[Doc]

i paid a company to grieve my taxes and my taxes went down... you can absolutely do a tax grievance.

On what basis did he grieve the taxes? I would guess that it was on the basis of assessment...... the grievance system that I am already aware of. I think he might have a hard time taking on the school district claiming that you need tax relief because they are not operating efficiently and frugally ..... lol. But then, maybe there is some kind of legal remedy for getting relief from a spend-thrift government organization like the local school system. If there is I would like to know about it so I can use it.

[Geno C]

couldnt tell you guys the logistics on how and what he does to grieve taxes lol. I used Mark Lewis and with out a doubt i would guess its on the basis of assesment, alls i know is that no one came over to asses my home... i do not know what other avenues they exhaust to grieve taxes but mine went down a bit, plus star kicked in also...

[pistolp71]

Me too Geno, I used Mark Lewis. I'm in the process of grieving my taxes for the second time in 5 yrs. First time they went down about $1800.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Me too Geno, I used Mark Lewis. I'm in the process of grieving my taxes for the second time in 5 yrs. First time they went down about $1800.

do you know what basis was used?

[pistolp71]

No, I don't. All I know is they take half of the first years savings as payment. They take care of everything. It usually goes to court.

[sits in trees]

Sits in trees,

I find it very hard to believe that your school taxes went up 88% over the last six years. Most school budgets only increase on average around 5%. That would mean that your school's budget passed an increase of close to 15 to 20% every year. I don't think so. If that was truly the case, why don't you grieve your taxes??? Since property values have dropped drastically, you should definately be able to save money after your grievance. But what do I know? I'm just a "pompouse" teacher!

we have had school tax increases of 6 to 9% every year since i bought this house 6 years ago, do the math teach and you will see that my numbers add up..my school tax bill went up over 600 bucks just this year...we have the lowest student attendance in 20 years in our district but we have the highest number of teachers ever. the town could easily close one of the elementary schools in our district but the teachers union fought it and with the political wizardry the are capable of the school(one of 2 elementary schools) remains open with 12 to 16 kids per class?????? Edited March 9, 2012 by sits in trees

[wooffer]

I fight and personally represent myself in small claims court every year to reduce my taxes. Still my school taxes where $4,800.00 a year in 1999 and now in 2012 they are $8,200.00.

That is just the school portion not my whole tax bill. If the increases keep up at that rate, myself and everyone else on LI (except teachers and cops) will be forced to sell our homes and leave them. Not sure who will buy them or where we will go.

[stop em and drop em]

I moved to nassau county in 2001 and paid $5,600 in taxes then and now pay over $11,000. It is a little to much now, and that is with winning grievances to reduce taxes three times

Edited March 10, 2012 by stop em and drop em