Watching the Baldwin interview

[luberhill]

2 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

How about if an experienced gun owner lets someone without any gun experience handle their firearm that they accidentally forgot to unload.  If this inexperienced gun handler proceeds to pull the trigger and kills someone on the other side of the wall, who is really at fault here?  The inexperienced gun handler probably wouldn't even know how to check if it were unloaded or had any rounds in it, while the experienced gun owner probably broke a bunch of gun safety rules by just handing the gun to the inexperienced person let alone not double checking to see that it was unloaded.   Guaranteed that this scenario has played out more than a few times in the real world.

 

 

 

 

 

But dreaming up these what if’s make zero sense !

Baldwin himself admitted to handling thousands and thousands of guns during his career !

His fault is he screwed up , and is taking NO responsibility !!!

[steve863]

3 minutes ago, luberhill said:

But …. None of them ever killed anyone 

 

Maybe they had better and more attentive people handing them the guns that would never allow live rounds anywhere near the movie set?

 

 

 

[ncountry]

1 minute ago, steve863 said:

 

How about if an experienced gun owner lets someone without any gun experience handle their firearm that they accidentally forgot to unload.  If this inexperienced gun handler proceeds to pull the trigger and kills someone on the other side of the wall, who is really at fault here?  The inexperienced gun handler probably wouldn't even know how to check if it were unloaded or had any rounds in it, while the experienced gun owner probably broke a bunch of gun safety rules by just handing the gun to the inexperienced person let alone not double checking to see that it was unloaded.   Guaranteed that this scenario has played out more than a few times in the real world.

 

 

 

 

Q

If this is the case than the person would be immediately showed how.. Keep it simple its not complicated. 0 excuses

[luberhill]

Just now, steve863 said:

 

Maybe they had better and more attentive people handing them the guns that would never allow live rounds anywhere near the movie set?

 

 

 

Maybe but also maybe the actors double checked , as most have said they do, and not point a gun at someone that you don’t know 100 percent isn’t loaded 

[The_Real_TCIII]

Maybe spend 45 seconds explaining the absolute bare minimum of firearm safety before handing an actor a gun?

[steve863]

3 minutes ago, luberhill said:

But dreaming up these what if’s make zero sense !

Baldwin himself admitted to handling thousands and thousands of guns during his career !

His fault is he screwed up , and is taking NO responsibility !!!

 

To you it may not make sense.  Simple question if you care to answer it honestly.  In my scenario who would be at greater fault, the experienced gun owner for not double checking to see if it were loaded or the inexperience guy who pulled the trigger?

 

 

 

[The_Real_TCIII]

1 minute ago, steve863 said:

 

To you it may not make sense.  Simple question if you care to answer it honestly.  In my scenario who would be at greater fault, the experienced gun owner for not double checking to see if it were loaded or the inexperience guy who pulled the trigger?

 

 

 

I dont think anyone would argue that the firearm "expert" that handed him the gun bears a ton of responsibility here

[luberhill]

Just now, steve863 said:

 

To you it may not make sense.  Simple question if you care to answer it honestly.  In my scenario who would be at greater fault, the experienced gun owner for not double checking to see if it were loaded or the inexperience guy who pulled the trigger?

 

 

 

Both !

But it’s a moot point , neither is applicable in this case .

Baldwin IS responsible and for him to deny it makes me sick !

His track record is unchanged .. entitled a***hole 

[chrisw]

I dont think anyone would argue that the firearm "expert" that handed him the gun bears a ton of responsibility here

While I agree something is wrong there... Who pointed a firearm at another human and pulled the trigger? Whether Baldwin was a gun novice or not, if you're going to point a firearm at someone you should damn well know how to check the firearm yourself, I don't care how many people handled it before him.

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[chrisw]

 
To you it may not make sense.  Simple question if you care to answer it honestly.  In my scenario who would be at greater fault, the experienced gun owner for not double checking to see if it were loaded or the inexperience guy who pulled the trigger?
 
 
 

While I agree there are multiple wrongs here, I disagree. If I were to hand you a firearm and told you to point it at something you shouldn't and pull the trigger, would you at least first check to be sure it was unloaded? Or just trust me? If you can't handle firearms responsibly then you shouldn't be playing with them at all, movie set or not, armorer on sight or not...
I sold firearms for 8 years, one thing never changed for me or my guys, every firearm we picked up, no matter who handed it to us, no matter if it was brand new out of the box, it was made sure to be unloaded and was always handed off to someone else, action open...

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[mowin]

54 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

How about if an experienced gun owner lets someone without any gun experience handle their firearm that they accidentally forgot to unload.  If this inexperienced gun handler proceeds to pull the trigger and kills someone on the other side of the wall, who is really at fault here?  The inexperienced gun handler probably wouldn't even know how to check if it were unloaded or had any rounds in it, while the experienced gun owner probably broke a bunch of gun safety rules by just handing the gun to the inexperienced person let alone not double checking to see that it was unloaded.   Guaranteed that this scenario has played out more than a few times in the real world.

 

 

 

 

 

One major flaw in your scenario. A EXPERIENCED gun owner wouldn't hand someone a firearm they forgot to unload. That would be a Un experienced firearm owner. 

[left field]

You guys were expecting Baldwin to publicly say, "Yeah, I feel a little responsible." His lawyer would leap across the room to gag him.

[chrisw]

You guys were expecting Baldwin to publicly say, "Yeah, I feel a little responsible." His lawyer would leap across the room to gag him.

Whether he says it or not, he is responsible. At least taking some of the blame on himself would give him some smidgen of dignity as a man. I hear what you're saying though. I'm sure he's pretty regulated on what he can say publicly, but something tells me that even in private, he wouldn't take any of the blame.

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[steve863]

Just now, mowin said:

One major flaw in your scenario. A EXPERIENCED gun owner wouldn't hand someone a firearm they forgot to unload. That would be a Un experienced firearm owner. 

 

Yeah plenty of "experts" out there who really aren't.  We all know that.

 

 

[left field]

Whether or not he's responsible he sure as hell is not going to say so publicly. It's the same as getting into an accident - you don't say a thing to the other driver or the cops.

I've been on a lot of film and TV sets with weapons. They are checked and rechecked by the armourer. No actor clears a gun or test fires it into the ground. As I understand it, they were blocking a scene and he was following the direction. 

This seems to be a failure of the armourer and AD. My guess is that the insurance companies will pay a ton of money to the families. I doubt Baldwin will.

[chrisw]

Whether or not he's responsible he sure as hell is not going to say so publicly. It's the same as getting into an accident - you don't say a thing to the other driver or the cops.
I've been on a lot of film and TV sets with weapons. They are checked and rechecked by the armourer. No actor clears a gun or test fires it into the ground. As I understand it, they were blocking a scene and he was following the direction. 
This seems to be a failure of the armourer and AD. My guess is that the insurance companies will pay a ton of money to the families. I doubt Baldwin will.

So out of curiosity, if it were your decision to make, who bears the most blame? No movie set norms or "what usually happens." Your real world interpretation of blame.

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[luberhill]

1 hour ago, chrisw said:

While I agree there are multiple wrongs here, I disagree. If I were to hand you a firearm and told you to point it at something you shouldn't and pull the trigger, would you at least first check to be sure it was unloaded? Or just trust me? If you can't handle firearms responsibly then you shouldn't be playing with them at all, movie set or not, armorer on sight or not...
I sold firearms for 8 years, one thing never changed for me or my guys, every firearm we picked up, no matter who handed it to us, no matter if it was brand new out of the box, it was made sure to be unloaded and was always handed off to someone else, action open...

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And even one step further , IF you DID screw up , you need to admit it, not get with your hi priced lawyer and make up crap

[Salmon_Run]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

 

To you it may not make sense.  Simple question if you care to answer it honestly.  In my scenario who would be at greater fault, the experienced gun owner for not double checking to see if it were loaded or the inexperience guy who pulled the trigger?

 

 

 

They both are RESPONSIBLE when handling any firearm, if one is inexperienced or shows negligence that weapons SHOULD NOT be in the their hands...period !!!

There are are always "contributing factors" in any incident and rarely, if ever, "Gun accidents"... If one ALWAYS follows the very basic gun safety rule then "accidents" can't happen.....

[luberhill]

28 minutes ago, left field said:

You guys were expecting Baldwin to publicly say, "Yeah, I feel a little responsible." His lawyer would leap across the room to gag him.

Nope , he has never before in his life admitted when he was wrong in any of his punk ass temper tantrums 

[left field]

8 minutes ago, chrisw said:

So out of curiosity, if it were your decision to make, who bears the most blame? No movie set norms or "what usually happens." Your real world interpretation of blame.

My real-world interpretation doesn't matter. This wasn't the real world, it's a movie set and has its own set of rules and protocols.

Assuming there was no sabotage, I would blame the armourer. Especially if, as it has been suggested, some crew members were firing off rounds at lunch. Secondly, the AD who handed Baldwin the gun and shouldn't have touched it. If Baldwin screwed around, then it possibly could be shown that he bears some small responsibility. Maybe not.

Take any scene from John Wick with Reeves who is very experienced with guns. Do you expect him to check and clear all those guns or trust the experts hired for just that reason?

 

[chrisw]

If you were drunk and should not drive a vehicle but someone handed you the keys and said "here you go, take it for a spin," and you proceed to get into an accident that kills someone. Who's at fault? Is it the guy that provided the keys? Or is the guy who knew he wasn't capable of safely handling the car and yet did anyhow? The car is the firearm in this scenario, Baldwin was not capable of properly handling a firearm (clearly) and the driver was not capable of properly handling the car. Baldwin could've taken additional measures to ensure safety (firearm training), as the man with the car could've waited until he was sober.

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[Salmon_Run]

Ponder this, I'll bet he wouldn't take a weapon from an "expert" and then be directed by another to place the muzzle firmly against his skull and pull the trigger.

Given his explanations it sounds like he would.

  

[chrisw]

My real-world interpretation doesn't matter. This wasn't the real world, it's a movie set and has its own set of rules and protocols.
Assuming there was no sabotage, I would blame the armourer. Especially if, as it has been suggested, some crew members were firing off rounds at lunch. Secondly, the AD who handed Baldwin the gun and shouldn't have touched it. If Baldwin screwed around, then it possibly could be shown that he bears some small responsibility. Maybe not.
Take any scene from John Wick with Reeves who is very experienced with guns. Do you expect him to check and clear all those guns or trust the experts hired for just that reason?
 

I would think less of him if he didn't personally "double check" the firearms. Why aren't the people who are physically pulling the trigger trained to perform a final check?? Is a final check that intrusive or time consuming? Could it have saved a life?

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[ADK Native]

We have driver education in high schools to help make teenagers better and safer drivers.  We have sex education to help teenagers not get pregnant or contract venereal diseases.  So why not teach firearm safety?  It would  help anti-gun people like Alec Baldwin not shoot themselves or others. 

Please, I know the anti-gun parents would go crazy.  What they do not know is there are dummy firearms and dummy ammunition that can be used so no one could be shot with them in training.

[left field]

5 minutes ago, chrisw said:

I would think less of him if he didn't personally "double check" the firearms. Why aren't the people who are physically pulling the trigger trained to perform a final check?? Is a final check that intrusive or time consuming? Could it have saved a life?

Are you talking about Reeves? You expect him to walk through the set-up, checking each weapon and then hand them back to the "bad guy" actors that he's going to take them from when the camera is rolling? How can he do that in any realistic way?