Ammo $ the new normal

[Nomad]

I searched for my original thread to no avail. This piece you may find interesting or upsetting , but I think $20 a box for 9mm hardball and $30 plus for a box of hunting ammo will be the new normal prices going forward .

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/concentrated-firepower-what-high?utm_source=url
 

[hueyjazz]

What doesn't cost way more than it did in 2019?   Buy a decent steak lately?  Me neither, I couldn't afford it.  That's a side effect of just printing money and dumping it into economy.  But I do believe the price gouging that was going on and the people that paid those prices did aid in setting the new standard of value for ammo.

Funny thing the one thing I don't go through a lot of is hunting ammo.  Rarely do I shoot twice at a deer.  Never three. 

Now target shooting I burned through ammo.  And in certain calibers I'm a little hurting.  I did stockpile a lot of reloading supplies except for primers and those take first born to get.

[Nomad]

Did you read the article ? 
 

Like a lot of industries, there are cost pressures in ammunition; the price of raw materials, like brass, have gone up. Additionally, the State Department has blocked imports from Russia, adding to the pricing pressure. But the cost story is really a sideshow; the pricing increase is going almost entirely to profit. For Vista, margins skyrocketed in 2020, and continued to increase in 2021. As the CFO of Vista, Sudhanshu Shekhar Priyadarshi, told investors in November, margins rose to a record 27% in Q2 of 2021, on top of an already extraordinary 2020.

[hueyjazz]

I did read the article and it is not contrary to my response.  Yes, brass cost more, lead cost more, and powder cost more.  I would assume like any industry they would have had contracts in place to control costs from suppliers but on renewal these will rise.

But I didn't deny that the ammo industry benefited by demand and the willingness to paid increase prices.  I agree with you and author on this.

 "I do believe the price gouging that was going on and the people that paid those prices did aid in setting the new standard of value for ammo"

[wolc123]

39 minutes ago, hueyjazz said:

What doesn't cost way more than it did in 2019?   Buy a decent steak lately?  Me neither, I couldn't afford it.  That's a side effect of just printing money and dumping it into economy.  But I do believe the price gouging that was going on and the people that paid those prices did aid in setting the new standard of value for ammo.

Funny thing the one thing I don't go through a lot of is hunting ammo.  Rarely do I shoot twice at a deer.  Never three. 

Now target shooting I burned through ammo.  And in certain calibers I'm a little hurting.  I did stockpile a lot of reloading supplies except for primers and those take first born to get.

Fortunately, the hunting and fishing was pretty good last year, so we didn’t need to purchase much meat from the store.  I got venison and bass pretty close to a dollar per pound, after subtracting input costs (ammo, licenses, food plot fertilizer, hooks and fuel).

This 20 cent Remington slugger yielding about 90 pounds of boneless venison was a big help, as were three more deer taken with my ML, and other pre-Covid purchased ammo.

Hopefully, I will be able to get a few with my crossbow this year, which will help hold food costs down.  I still have a bunch of those 20 cent sluggers left, and a good supply of ML ammo (thanks to Larry), in case I don’t .  

I would go broke, starve, or freeze to death if I had to depend on perch and ice-fishing for food.  This 12 incher that I caught this morning cost me $10 in minnows.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by wolc123

[Kmartinson]

8 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Fortunately, the hunting and fishing was pretty good last year, so we didn’t need to purchase much meat from the store.  I got venison and bass pretty close to a dollar per pound, after subtracting input costs (ammo, licenses, food plot fertilizer, hooks and fuel).

This 20 cent Remington slugger yielding about 90 pounds of boneless venison was a big help, as were three more deer taken with my ML, and other pre-Covid purchased ammo.

Hopefully, I will be able to get a few with my crossbow this year, which will help hold food costs down.  I still have a bunch of those 20 cent sluggers left, and a good supply of ML ammo (thanks to Larry), in case I don’t .  

I would go broke, starve, or freeze to death if I had to depend on perch and ice-fishing for food.  This 12 incher that I caught this morning cost me $10 in minnows.

 

 

That perch will taste like 20$ though

[stubborn1VT]

1 hour ago, Nomad said:

Did you read the article ? 
 

Like a lot of industries, there are cost pressures in ammunition; the price of raw materials, like brass, have gone up. Additionally, the State Department has blocked imports from Russia, adding to the pricing pressure. But the cost story is really a sideshow; the pricing increase is going almost entirely to profit. For Vista, margins skyrocketed in 2020, and continued to increase in 2021. As the CFO of Vista, Sudhanshu Shekhar Priyadarshi, told investors in November, margins rose to a record 27% in Q2 of 2021, on top of an already extraordinary 2020.

Thanks for the link. Facts like these fly in the face of the the common claim of "inflation".  High profit margins are not inflation.  All the major oil companies posted similar rises in profit, while many run their mouths about blaming the president for gas prices. SMH.  

[Kmartinson]

18 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

Thanks for the link. Facts like these fly in the face of the the common claim of "inflation".  High profit margins are not inflation.  All the major oil companies posted similar rises in profit, while many run their mouths about blaming the president for gas prices. SMH.  

Most major corporations post giant growth every quarter. The regular guy is at best breaking even quarterly and fighting for a yearly raise that never meets the % "inflation". Doesn't matter which administration is in charge and its been this way in America for years.

[ncountry]

If we all stopped buying, prices would fall.

[Kmartinson]

20 minutes ago, ncountry said:

If we all stopped buying, prices would fall.

To some degree this is pretty real statement. The price is definitely kept up by demand. Also there have been some shockingly large numbers of firearms sales in the US for the last few years, I'm sure all those buyers want some ammo. 

On that note with so many guns in the country there is some reassurances that the right to bear arms isn't likely going to change. Scare type tactics to make individuals think they will lose thier guns does however potentially create a panic buy in said guns and ammo. It also apeases the liberal side who want ridiculous demands on our freedoms in this venue. Who benefits from this rabid guns and ammo purchasing? Not just manufacturers but also the state and federal governments who collect the tax revenue.... food for thought, but my guess there won't be any prying from my cold dead hands situations any time soon.

[Buckmaster7600]

If we all stopped buying, prices would fall.

Maybe but it’s not going to happen. I’m going to shoot. I’ll do without other things and continue shooting multiple times a week.

I think ammo will go back down because supply and demand works both ways. There are a number of people who won’t pay the higher prices and this will bring down demand as well.


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[ncountry]

15 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Maybe but it’s not going to happen. I’m going to shoot. I’ll do without other things and continue shooting multiple times a week.

I think ammo will go back down because supply and demand works both ways. There are a number of people who won’t pay the higher prices and this will bring down demand as well.


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I'm with you.  I'm not going to help bring down demand either.. 

In my small  business, I'm contributing to inflation too I guess. My prices have gone up considerably over the last year. When my phone stops ringing I will think about lowering them..;)

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ncountry

[Kmartinson]

9 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Maybe but it’s not going to happen. I’m going to shoot. I’ll do without other things and continue shooting multiple times a week.

I think ammo will go back down because supply and demand works both ways. There are a number of people who won’t pay the higher prices and this will bring down demand as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Me too, I'm with you. Find myself plinking with the 22 more than shooting my rifle or trap.  

[stubborn1VT]

2 hours ago, Kmartinson said:

Most major corporations post giant growth every quarter. The regular guy is at best breaking even quarterly and fighting for a yearly raise that never meets the % "inflation". Doesn't matter which administration is in charge and its been this way in America for years.

Not 27% growth, but I get what you're saying. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm with you.  I'm not going to help bring down demand either.. 
In my small  business, I'm contributing to inflation too I guess. My prices have gone up considerably over the last year. When my phone stops ringing I will think about lowering them..
 
 

Oh , I’m absolutely with you. Since vaccine mandates changed my career I started advertising my side gig “light excavation and landscaping” and have basically doubled my rates. The stupid numbers I’ve thrown out and got accepted is insane!


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[hueyjazz]

All business must show a profit increase or slowly die.  I read the financial report for Vista.  EBITDA margin rose by 27% not Net profit margin.  Big difference

EBITDA margin is a measure of a company's operating profit as a percentage of its revenue. The acronym EBITDA stands for earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization. Knowing the EBITDA margin allows for a comparison of one company's real performance to others in its industry.

There were a lot of factors that contributed to this such as them doing several acquisitions.  They also had greatly increase sales of 35%.

They did raise prices, but the way Matt's article is written he implies it's more sinister than it actually is.  If you read any of his other work, you will find he pretty far left in the scale.

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, blackbeltbill said:

That is a very bright Perch!

I am not a big fan of perch. I cleaned that one for my mother in law, who really likes them.  I prefer bass, because the meat has more oil in it, which keeps it moist thru the healthier cooking processes, like grilling, baking, and broiling .  Perch are definitely better fried though.

[Kmartinson]

4 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I am not a big fan of perch. I cleaned that one for my mother in law, who really likes them.  I prefer bass, because the meat has more oil in it, which keeps it moist thru the healthier cooking processes, like grilling, baking, and broiling .  Perch are definitely better fried though.

I think perch and walleye are the best freshwater eating fish there is. Flaking white meat is almost as good as ocean catch! 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Bass pro today has .45 acp ball for 27 per 50. I bought a bunch. Not a bad price today. I need to feed my new to me 1911 regardless of cost! 

[TLR]

This, is why i reload  and i have enough components for all. My firearms to last me for 10-15 yrs 

Edited February 20, 2022 by TLR