Calibers and Decisions

[eagle rider]

If you were following the earlier post I put up, I was getting opinions from you all about 243 Win for deer. The thing of it is, I got the TC Encore shooting great with this round using a 100 gr Sierra. I can just as easily slap a 30-06 barrel on the Encore and use that instead for deer. All things being equal, who would elelct to go for the heavier weight chambering for deer and why?

[Gthphtm]

All depend on shot placement,the 243 more so then the 30 - 06.If you reload you can get bullets from 110 grain to 220 for the 30 - 06.

[bubba]

I would shoot what you feel comfortable with. A 100 grain sierra will kill a deer easily. I personally use a 25-06 with a 115 grain bullet. Most tell me it is too light for deer also. Put the bullet in the right place with any center fire and the deer is yours. The idea that you can make a poor shot with a bigger caliber and still have the deer seems a bit over confident to say the least. Practice a lot get good and fill your freezer. The only reason I carry a heavier caliber on occasion where I hunt is the fact we have bears there also. I would be sketchy with the 243 or 25-06 around those guys.

[Grouse]

The 30-06 might be a better choice if shots are long because it will have more energy on target at longer distances. It will also allow for shots on angles that require a great deal of penetration to reach the heart or lungs of the deer. You might think of the 30-06 as a bigger hammer. Sometimes it works better to nail something.

[Lawdwaz]

I would shoot what you feel comfortable with. A 100 grain sierra will kill a deer easily. I personally use a 25-06 with a 115 grain bullet. Most tell me it is too light for deer also. Put the bullet in the right place with any center fire and the deer is yours. The idea that you can make a poor shot with a bigger caliber and still have the deer seems a bit over confident to say the least. Practice a lot get good and fill your freezer. The only reason I carry a heavier caliber on occasion where I hunt is the fact we have bears there also. I would be sketchy with the 243 or 25-06 around those guys.

This is going to kill me.........................I agree with bubba. He nailed it.

Ah, that wasn't too bad.

[bubba]

you might not be so bad after all.

[Lawdwaz]

you might not be so bad after all.

Lets go get some coffee! I'm buying.....

[bubba]

sorry I dont drink coffee. I do not need the caffeine.

[adirondackbushwhack]

The idea of a larger caliber for deer is to kill quickly and to put the animal down even when some unforseen thing occurs. Nobody hits the bulls eye EVERY time even at the range let alone in the deer woods where anything can happen. An unseen twig, a bit of jitters with the heart pumping, sudden gust of wind and countless things we can't think of right now but that can and will go wrong to someone at some time. I seem to not hit exactly where I am aiming in the woods more than I like to admit. A little off this way or that ain't too bad but a little too much off and there may be a difference in a deer getting away and a deer down when choosing caliber. Certainly the .243 will kill deer and put them down nicely IF the deer is hit exactly where intended EVERY time. It's the iffy shot placement where the larger calibers shine AND they also put the animal down in a hurry with good shot placement and so the animal feels less pain. I personally have a 25-06 and I've dropped deer so fast with it I didn't know what happened to them, on the other hand i've had some long tracking jobs with it too. I believe it is my responcibility as a hunter to kill as quickly and painlessly as possible and to accomplish that I choose a larger caliber rifle. Sure I can kill deer with any center fire round, can kill them with a 22 too but I want to kill quickly and painlessly with the least chance of a possible lost wounded animal. To accomplish this it is my belief that bullets of .35 caliber and up work best. My personal choice and one that has never failed me is the .444 Marlin. With flat nosed 240 to 265 grain bullets at around 2400 fps it really does the job I require. Now there is nothing wrong with the 243 but it just doesn't have the knockdown power of the 444 and....well you get the idea.

[Gthphtm]

I have had just about every standard hunting and benchrest caliber threw the years.Since I do my own reloading.My present deer rifle I use where I live.In the Catskill area is a 358 Win. caliber,it will take a bear down up to 200 yds.And the deer I hit did not go to far with the 225 grain bullet I use.If I hunted in a more open area where long shots are possible I would use my 270 WSM or my 6.5 x 284 for the long shots both are with 140 grain bullets.

[adirondackbushwhack]

35 cal. 225 grain bullet 2400-2500 fps or a bit either way is deadly. I don't currently have any 35 cals but I've been looking at a whelen however the 358 win is really nice too you've got me thinking about it now too.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I agree with Bubba on this one. Whatever centerfire round you are the most comfortable shooting is the one that will work best for you.

[eagle rider]

I'm kinda of liking the way Bubba thinks too.

[pistolp71]

It really depends on the average range you will be shooting. Obviously some are much flatter than others.

[jusputtn]

These big caliber arguments are contradictory. They'll arc more as they get out there thus range estimation has to be spot on. A 243 shoots flatter so its more forgiving. Sighted 2" high at 100 yds it will be at 2" low at about 230 yds. Point & shoot, no worries mate. At 400 yds, it has the energy of a 44mag at the muzzle. Exactly how dead does a deer need get?

This information is easily accessible on the internet plus you can find ballistic calculators for free. I've used Www.airguns.net/trajectory.php by copying and pasting the data in excel, you can taylor a chart to your load/riflle.

In short, what Bubba said.

[jusputtn]

I should add that I have no biases on caliber. If someone wants to use a large caliber go right ahead; I confess that I also use a 308. I've even used a 720 caliber to take many a deer, though I haven't done that since my county stated allowing rifle hunting. It's the "marginal" references to a 243, 25-06, etc. that bug me.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I have no bias on caliber either but some work better than others and thats just the way it is. Actually that's not quite true there are cals that are terrible for deer hunting and would result in far more deer lost and i am biased against them for deer hunting. The .243 is NOT one of them though. I used to hunt with a 30-30 many years ago and at the time I thought that I could not find a better rifle round for deer. Had anyone suggested that it might be lacking in some way I would have been upset. I eventually stopped useing the 30-30 for deer hunting because it lacked knock down ability. Although I did kill a buck with it that somebody else had already shot with a .243 and it ran away. It had been shot in the shoulder and the bullet did not penetrait to the body cavity. The fella was tracking it in the snow and caught up to it and me after I had gutted it. Said he had been tracking it for over a mile.

Here is the trajectory for a 265 grain .444

muzzle - 1.5

50 yrds + 1.66

100 yrds + 2.98

150 yrds + 2.03

200 yrds - 1.7

Point and shoot

In all of my years of hunting in the areas where I hunt I've never had a shot much past 200 yrds. The vast majority are under 100. However I'll give ya this the .243 is much flatter shooting and handles the wind much better. After all it was initially designed as a varmint round and so it would meet the needs of the varmint hunter.

[Dinsdale]

Although I did kill a buck with it that somebody else had already shot with a .243 and it ran away. It had been shot in the shoulder and the bullet did not penetrait to the body cavity. The fella was tracking it in the snow and caught up to it and me after I had gutted it. Said he had been tracking it for over a mile.

This may well comment of this hunters choice in bullet construction/weight not caliber.

I find that point lacking in most of these discussions of caliber. Choosing a bullet type because they look really cool when opened the box at the local big box store and they were really cheap, is how a segement (and a large one at that) makes this decision.

[adirondackbushwhack]

This may well comment of this hunters choice in bullet construction/weight not caliber.

I find that point lacking in most of these discussions of caliber. Choosing a bullet type because they look really cool when opened the box at the local big box store and they were really cheap, is how a segement (and a large one at that) makes this decision.

That may or may not be the case here I just don't know what ammo the fella was using. It could be he had ammo designed for varmint or he could have ammo designed to open at lower velocity (greater distance) and had a close shot. Who knows? It makes an interesting point about the .243 though I'm thinking. It's not for the newbie hunter. First the right ammo must be choosen and then the proper shot must be waited for and made and those things are best left in the hands of more experienced hunters. I think in many instances the .243 is given to young hunters because there is little recoil associated with it. A better choice for the newbie, young, inexperianced hunter might be something like the .35 rem. where any factory hunting ammo will do the job just fine and it has a whole bunch more knock down power without killing one with recoil.

[ants]

Not touching this one

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That may or may not be the case here I just don't know what ammo the fella was using. It could be he had ammo designed for varmint or he could have ammo designed to open at lower velocity (greater distance) and had a close shot. Who knows? It makes an interesting point about the .243 though I'm thinking. It's not for the newbie hunter. First the right ammo must be choosen and then the proper shot must be waited for and made and those things are best left in the hands of more experienced hunters. I think in many instances the .243 is given to young hunters because there is little recoil associated with it. A better choice for the newbie, young, inexperianced hunter might be something like the .35 rem. where any factory hunting ammo will do the job just fine and it has a whole bunch more knock down power without killing one with recoil.

you gutted it, right? where did he hit it? was it poor shot placement?

And let's not make this rocket science. A freaking idiot can select the right bullet with very little effort. Federal even puts the little pictures on the box of what bullet to use for what. If a hunter can't pull that selection off it won't matter if he hunts for 20 years he is probably just not mentally capable.

[adirondackbushwhack]

you gutted it, right? where did he hit it? was it poor shot placement?

And let's not make this rocket science. A freaking idiot can select the right bullet with very little effort. Federal even puts the little pictures on the box of what bullet to use for what. If a hunter can't pull that selection off it won't matter if he hunts for 20 years he is probably just not mentally capable.

Okay then we will assume that the fella was using the correct ammo for deer. The deer was hit in the shoulder a few inches above the elbow a perfect hit for a broadside shot and a dead deer with an adequate round. The shoulder was broken but the bullet did not penetrate. Yes I did gut the deer and had my deer drag all hooked up when I saw the fella coming up the hill so I waited on him to get there before dragging the deer off. There was no disagreement over who's deer it was.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I was just trying to understand what type of shot placement there was.

[pistolp71]

Something doesn't sound right with that story. And I don't think a perfect shot is a few inches above the elbow. The .243 is a more than ADEQUATE round for whitetail deer. If in fact the shot placement was good, than we can only assume he was using the wrong bullet. That can be done with any caliber. I saw a moron once using a 30-06 accelorator rounds to hunt deer. I don't think the cartridge should take the blame for that situation. I don't deer hunt with my .243, but if I ever decided to, I'm 100% sure it would do the job just fine.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I was just trying to understand what type of shot placement there was.

Shot placement was good but who knows if the leg was slightly forward or back at the shot but at any rate the deer should have been down with the proper round.