Clarification of the Draft Deer Management Plan from the DEC

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

you would quit for $10?

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

Buck, I think sometimes we have a knee jerk reaction at the moment then we settle down and pay. I am not trying to speak for BIGTOM, just a normal reaction every time our taxes, tolls, gas goes up we get mad as hell then we comply, just human nature.

Dave

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

Buck, I think sometimes we have a knee jerk reaction at the moment then we settle down and pay. I am not trying to speak for BIGTOM, just a normal reaction every time our taxes, tolls, gas goes up we get mad as hell then we comply, just human nature.

Dave

I know, just pointing out that $10 is pretty silly to quit hunting over 

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

Buck, I think sometimes we have a knee jerk reaction at the moment then we settle down and pay. I am not trying to speak for BIGTOM, just a normal reaction every time our taxes, tolls, gas goes up we get mad as hell then we comply, just human nature.

Dave

I know, just pointing out that $10 is pretty silly to quit hunting over 

My feeling exactly, $10 never put anyone in the poor house.

Dave

This brings up a very good point...there are 50,000 out of state hunters in general that come to NYS....I looked up the #'s....and when looking back there are many times the a out of state hunter doesn't get as good a chance in the lottery system...so what is NY going to do? fore go the more than likely ...considerable income generated by out of state bow hunters?...further lowering the # of hunters out there reducing #'s

In units where DEC feels deer numbers are too low, the state isn't going to dole out DMPs to nonresidents just to get the associated economic impact from their hunting activities and visits.....at some point you reach a crossroads where you're either in the deer management business or the tourism business.....so, yes, there may be cases where a nonresident bowhunter doesn't have an opportunity to harvest an antlerless deer....whether that ultimately impacts their license-buying decisions, time will tell....

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!!  If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!!

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!!  If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!!

First off, no need to be technical about the examples I used, you get the point. Second, maybe the fact that there are very few DMPs handed out in your area means that the herd in your area is not in great shape and needs to recover. If that is true, then why cant you see that maybe you shouldnt be shooting does there for a couple or few years so it can recover. Nah, you would rather just keep killing them and complaining about not seeing many deer. DEC isnt taking "your" tag away and selling it to anyone, they are trying to gain better control over the herd in areas like yours.

BTW, if hunting is so poor in your area, hunt elsewhere. Ive given up two hunting areas that I used to go to for just that reason.

I agree with the point that there should be restrictions or even no DMP given out in areas with low deer counts. This should be done on a unit by unit basis, only makes sense if we want the herd to recover. But I don't believe that removing the either sex tag from the bow hunter is not the answer. First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license. Plus it is more difficult to take a deer with a bow as compared with a gun. So limiting the DMP for gun hunters makes more sense just my opinion.  But if the deer count in a certain are is extremely low than neither bow or gun should be able to harvest any does. The income generated from the Bow/ML tags will affect the DEC if these rules are implemented. We would only be hunting with gun and shotgun but the DEC wanted more money and hence we have Bow/ML tags with the benefit of either sex tags. Whats why we buy those tags!!!!!!!

Dave

I agree with the point that there should be restrictions or even no DMP given out in areas with low deer counts. This should be done on a unit by unit basis, only makes sense if we want the herd to recover. But I don't believe that removing the either sex tag from the bow hunter is not the answer. First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license. Plus it is more difficult to take a deer with a bow as compared with a gun. So limiting the DMP for gun hunters makes more sense just my opinion.  But if the deer count in a certain are is extremely low than neither bow or gun should be able to harvest any does. The income generated from the Bow/ML tags will affect the DEC if these rules are implemented. We would only be hunting with gun and shotgun but the DEC wanted more money and hence we have Bow/ML tags with the benefit of either sex tags. Whats why we buy those tags!!!!!!!

Dave

Why wouldnt it make sense? The either sex tags allow you to shoot a doe, and the DEC has no control over what unit you use it in. If you just said restrictions or no DMP make sense for certain units, then how can you say people in or that hunt those units should be given an either sex tag?

BTW, if you shoot a deer with your bow during regular season, you use your regular season tags, not your bow/ml tags.  Oh, and you can use your normal DMPs during bow season. They are not currently just a "gun tag".

I agree with the point that there should be restrictions or even no DMP given out in areas with low deer counts. This should be done on a unit by unit basis, only makes sense if we want the herd to recover. But I don't believe that removing the either sex tag from the bow hunter is not the answer. First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license. Plus it is more difficult to take a deer with a bow as compared with a gun. So limiting the DMP for gun hunters makes more sense just my opinion.  But if the deer count in a certain are is extremely low than neither bow or gun should be able to harvest any does. The income generated from the Bow/ML tags will affect the DEC if these rules are implemented. We would only be hunting with gun and shotgun but the DEC wanted more money and hence we have Bow/ML tags with the benefit of either sex tags. Whats why we buy those tags!!!!!!!

Dave

Why wouldnt it make sense? The either sex tags allow you to shoot a doe, and the DEC has no control over what unit you use it in. If you just said restrictions or no DMP make sense for certain units, then how can you say people in or that hunt those units should be given an either sex tag?

BTW, if you shoot a deer with your bow during regular season, you use your regular season tags, not your bow/ml tags.  Oh, and you can use your normal DMPs during bow season. They are not currently just a "gun tag".

Buck, even though you use your regular season tag, you still need a bow license to use your bow.

You are right with a bow/ml tag we do not know what unit they will hunt. This is hard to manage unless the DEC removes the either sex tags .I know it's what they have to do but as a bow hunter I don't agree. I agree with some of the 5 year plan but not all of it.

Dave

I agree with the point that there should be restrictions or even no DMP given out in areas with low deer counts. This should be done on a unit by unit basis, only makes sense if we want the herd to recover. But I don't believe that removing the either sex tag from the bow hunter is not the answer. First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license. Plus it is more difficult to take a deer with a bow as compared with a gun. So limiting the DMP for gun hunters makes more sense just my opinion.  But if the deer count in a certain are is extremely low than neither bow or gun should be able to harvest any does. The income generated from the Bow/ML tags will affect the DEC if these rules are implemented. We would only be hunting with gun and shotgun but the DEC wanted more money and hence we have Bow/ML tags with the benefit of either sex tags. Whats why we buy those tags!!!!!!!

Dave

Why wouldnt it make sense? The either sex tags allow you to shoot a doe, and the DEC has no control over what unit you use it in. If you just said restrictions or no DMP make sense for certain units, then how can you say people in or that hunt those units should be given an either sex tag?

BTW, if you shoot a deer with your bow during regular season, you use your regular season tags, not your bow/ml tags.  Oh, and you can use your normal DMPs during bow season. They are not currently just a "gun tag".

Buck, even though you use your regular season tag, you still need a bow license to use your bow.

You are right with a bow/ml tag we do not know what unit they will hunt. This is hard to manage unless the DEC removes the either sex tags .I know it's what they have to do but as a bow hunter I don't agree. I agree with some of the 5 year plan but not all of it.

Dave

Yes, you have to have your bow tags even during regular season, but you dont use them then.

I hear ya, its one of those things that nobody really likes (I sure dont), but we know it needs to be done.

I agree with the point that there should be restrictions or even no DMP given out in areas with low deer counts. This should be done on a unit by unit basis, only makes sense if we want the herd to recover. But I don't believe that removing the either sex tag from the bow hunter is not the answer. First we pay for a bow license even if we just want to use a bow in gun season we need a license. Plus it is more difficult to take a deer with a bow as compared with a gun. So limiting the DMP for gun hunters makes more sense just my opinion.  But if the deer count in a certain are is extremely low than neither bow or gun should be able to harvest any does. The income generated from the Bow/ML tags will affect the DEC if these rules are implemented. We would only be hunting with gun and shotgun but the DEC wanted more money and hence we have Bow/ML tags with the benefit of either sex tags. Whats why we buy those tags!!!!!!!

Dave

Why wouldnt it make sense? The either sex tags allow you to shoot a doe, and the DEC has no control over what unit you use it in. If you just said restrictions or no DMP make sense for certain units, then how can you say people in or that hunt those units should be given an either sex tag?

BTW, if you shoot a deer with your bow during regular season, you use your regular season tags, not your bow/ml tags.  Oh, and you can use your normal DMPs during bow season. They are not currently just a "gun tag".

Buck, even though you use your regular season tag, you still need a bow license to use your bow.

You are right with a bow/ml tag we do not know what unit they will hunt. This is hard to manage unless the DEC removes the either sex tags .I know it's what they have to do but as a bow hunter I don't agree. I agree with some of the 5 year plan but not all of it.

Dave

Yes, you have to have your bow tags even during regular season, but you dont use them then.

I hear ya, its one of those things that nobody really likes (I sure dont), but we know it needs to be done.

I am willing to bite the bullet for a few years if it means better hunting in the future.

Dave

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!!  If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!!

First off, no need to be technical about the examples I used, you get the point. Second, maybe the fact that there are very few DMPs handed out in your area means that the herd in your area is not in great shape and needs to recover. If that is true, then why cant you see that maybe you shouldnt be shooting does there for a couple or few years so it can recover. Nah, you would rather just keep killing them and complaining about not seeing many deer. DEC isnt taking "your" tag away and selling it to anyone, they are trying to gain better control over the herd in areas like yours.

BTW, if hunting is so poor in your area, hunt elsewhere. Ive given up two hunting areas that I used to go to for just that reason.

Yes I get the your point your an opinionated person who first tells me how to spend my money and than tells me to go hunt some where else!! I'm born in raised in this area so this is where I love to hunt!! This is my home!! Yet other people apply for DMPs that live outside of this erea and get them. I say if you live work and pay tax's in that erea than you should have first choice. then there are those who get permits because they are land owners. Alot of them don't allow hunting yet they buy a tag and get a permit just so there deer don't get shot. There are hunting clubs that get land owner permits but won't allow the taking of does. Some clubs even have in there bylaws that members "must" apply for DMPs but won't allow them to use them on club grounds. I cook for a large hunting camp during the rifle season they have 3200 acers of land and got 24 land owner permits last year, they shot 3 does "for camp meat"!! Then there are those "old schoolers" that don't believe in shooting does yet apply for the permits so others won't get them!! If the state wants to control the heard than only give the permits to people who will use them. Have a check in station where you "must" bring in your doe to have it checked for age, weight, ect. just like they do with bears!! Then the state would know what hunters are reliable as a hunting tool!! I've been Participating in the bow hunter survey for 9 years. Last year i saw 51 does and 5 bucks. The numbers are skewed a healthy heard should be about 3 to 1. If you think this isn't about the state making more money off the DMPs than you got your head stuck in the sand!! I under stand that there is a need to improve there deer heard in my erea yet the states going to allow cross bow here to further "improve" deer management. It's about the $$$$ plain and simple!! If the state wants to improve the deer heard than why have a season on coyote's. They kill more fawns than hunters, they should have a bounty on those things!! It's all about the $$$!!!

I say if you buy or are given "as are land owners" DMPs and don't use them than the state should not issue you them. Sell them to me I'll do my part "improving" the deer herd!!

As just a bow hunter I would gladly pay the $10 fee for and DMP when I buy my archery tag if I was assured that I would get one!! So with your infinite wisdom tell me where it's fair to the bow hunter to take away the either sex tag!!

IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!!

After reading all these comments a few times it has come to my realization that Ny has some pretty selfish bowhunters.  I just do not understand  some people at all.  They complain about the deer herd in their area and cannot fathom the concept of the DEC trying to better regulate the herd by doing away with the either sex tag.  Guys think about why the deer herd is so low in specific areas.  Maybe its a combination of harsh winters, fawn kills or overharvesting of does.  DEC cant control the weather, there is already a coyote season and every DEC officer I have talked to said have at it, so whats that leave them to get the numbers up.  HMMMMMMMMM doe permits.  If people love there hunting grounds like they say they do why in the world are they not willing to help the herd and forgo a either sex deer tag?  Also if you are not able to get a doe permit then doesnt that also tell you something.  The agenda is pretty clear in my opinion and I have said it before,  taking away the either sex tag does 2 things It allows the DEC to control the deer herd by managing permits specefic to the DMU and yes forgive them for needing funds to do this by charging us 10 dollars just like they did in the old days.  Its your choice to give them 10 dollars to apply for a doe permit, if someone is so opposed to spending 10 dollars then forgo it and it wont help fund the project.  10 dollars wont even get me 3 gallons of gas.  Its a small price for something we are so passionate about.  Getting rid of the either sex tag is also a small price to pay to better the future of our hunting that we are so passionate about. 

Lol.... there goes that old "selfish" allegation that is such a favorite on this forum. I guess when you don't have a clue what else to say on a subject, throw in a few insults.

One thing that seems to elude a lot of people is that it was the either sex aspect of bowhunting that has made the sport grow to the extent that it has. Many bowhunters without the either sex harvest capability would have given up bowhunting a long time ago. And don't be giving me that "back-patting" crap about how they must be some kind of deficient hunters if they need that kind of incentive. That's just the way the sport evolved and being that bowhunting is already a highly handicapped way of harvesting deer, it has worked out very well for the sport and actually makes a lot of sense. Furthermore, I have never seen any proof that the antlerless harvest due to bows has ever made the deer go extinct anywhere in the state or has had any significant impact whatsoever. If it has, I would like to see some sort of documentation. Basically inspite of a few very brief situations due to things other than the bow harvest, the DEC is normally in a constant battle trying to reduce the ever expanding deer population. I know there are a lot of people that claim the DEC has totally removed deer from their area, but it usually isn't very long before they are talking about seeing deer all over the place again. So before people start talking about further limitations on bowhunters, and talking about how "selfish" they are, perhaps a little proof that the either sex harvest capability is really doing some harm might be appropriate. In the very few areas where there might be a problem maintaining deer, there might be some local actions that might make some sense. But making a statewide change is the same sort of tunnel-vision solutions that show up so much in the suggestions read on these forums.

After reading all these comments a few times it has come to my realization that Ny has some pretty selfish bowhunters.  I just do not understand  some people at all.  They complain about the deer herd in their area and cannot fathom the concept of the DEC trying to better regulate the herd by doing away with the either sex tag.  Guys think about why the deer herd is so low in specific areas.  Maybe its a combination of harsh winters, fawn kills or overharvesting of does.  DEC cant control the weather, there is already a coyote season and every DEC officer I have talked to said have at it, so whats that leave them to get the numbers up.  HMMMMMMMMM doe permits.  If people love there hunting grounds like they say they do why in the world are they not willing to help the herd and forgo a either sex deer tag?  Also if you are not able to get a doe permit then doesnt that also tell you something.  The agenda is pretty clear in my opinion and I have said it before,  taking away the either sex tag does 2 things It allows the DEC to control the deer herd by managing permits specefic to the DMU and yes forgive them for needing funds to do this by charging us 10 dollars just like they did in the old days.  Its your choice to give them 10 dollars to apply for a doe permit, if someone is so opposed to spending 10 dollars then forgo it and it wont help fund the project.  10 dollars wont even get me 3 gallons of gas.  Its a small price for something we are so passionate about.  Getting rid of the either sex tag is also a small price to pay to better the future of our hunting that we are so passionate about.

Selfish?  If your not smart enough to figure out that it's about the money than I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge!!LOL  If you think for one minute that the state has not been able to compile enough data over the years tellimg them what % of does are taken by bow/mzl hunters and than issued DMPs to offset the #'s of does needed to be takin than I'll sell you that bridge for the $10 "the price of my DMP"!!  LOL

I'm not saying in these fiscal hard times that the state doesn't need to come up with ways to make $ but don't blow sand up my rear end by telling me that doing away with the either sex tage well better enable them to control the deer herd!! They plan on "SELLING" those tages!! As I have stated before I would "GLADLY" by one of those tag's if they were to assure me that I would get it to compensate for the one that they plan on taking away!!

After reading all these comments a few times it has come to my realization that Ny has some pretty selfish bowhunters.  I just do not understand  some people at all.  They complain about the deer herd in their area and cannot fathom the concept of the DEC trying to better regulate the herd by doing away with the either sex tag.  Guys think about why the deer herd is so low in specific areas.  Maybe its a combination of harsh winters, fawn kills or overharvesting of does.  DEC cant control the weather, there is already a coyote season and every DEC officer I have talked to said have at it, so whats that leave them to get the numbers up.  HMMMMMMMMM doe permits.  If people love there hunting grounds like they say they do why in the world are they not willing to help the herd and forgo a either sex deer tag?  Also if you are not able to get a doe permit then doesnt that also tell you something.  The agenda is pretty clear in my opinion and I have said it before,  taking away the either sex tag does 2 things It allows the DEC to control the deer herd by managing permits specefic to the DMU and yes forgive them for needing funds to do this by charging us 10 dollars just like they did in the old days.  Its your choice to give them 10 dollars to apply for a doe permit, if someone is so opposed to spending 10 dollars then forgo it and it wont help fund the project.  10 dollars wont even get me 3 gallons of gas.  Its a small price for something we are so passionate about.  Getting rid of the either sex tag is also a small price to pay to better the future of our hunting that we are so passionate about.

Selfish?  If your not smart enough to figure out that it's about the money than I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge!!LOL  If you think for one minute that the state has not been able to compile enough data over the years tellimg them what % of does are taken by bow/mzl hunters and than issued DMPs to offset the #'s of does needed to be takin than I'll sell you that bridge for the $10 "the price of my DMP"!!  LOL

I'm not saying in these fiscal hard times that the state doesn't need to come up with ways to make $ but don't blow sand up my rear end by telling me that doing away with the either sex tage well better enable them to control the deer herd!! They plan on "SELLING" those tages!! As I have stated before I would "GLADLY" by one of those tag's if they were to assure me that I would get it to compensate for the one that they plan on taking away!!

Tom , I agree if it's about the money they are losing then they should just add $10 to the bow license. Then continue to have either sex tags this would keep us from being put in a lottery which we may not be selected, and if not selected we lose our $10. 

Dave

Not smart enough lol.  You need to go back and read what I posted.  What do you guys not understand?  Getting rid of the either sex tag allows them to manage each specific DMU.  How much more clear can it get.  The either sex tag restricts them from doing just that.  It allows a A/M hunter to use that tag anywheres in NY.  And yet again I said returning the 10 dollar fee alows them to help fund doing it. 

To which some gun hunters may respond: why should bowhunters not be subject to the same DMP rules as the rest of the deer hunting fraternity? Just sayin......

Not smart enough lol.  You need to go back and read what I posted.  What do you guys not understand?  Getting rid of the either sex tag allows them to manage each specific DMU.  How much more clear can it get.  The either sex tag restricts them from doing just that.  It allows a A/M hunter to use that tag anywheres in NY.  And yet again I said returning the 10 dollar fee alows them to help fund doing it.

The response was about the position that Tom took about the money. Some feel the DEC just wants to generate money some think it's about improving the deer herd.  If it's about the B/Ml getting by with free DMP then I suggested adding $10 to the license but it's not about the money in my opinion It's about Deer management in the areas that need to increase the numbers of deer.

Dave

Not smart enough lol.  You need to go back and read what I posted.  What do you guys not understand?  Getting rid of the either sex tag allows them to manage each specific DMU.  How much more clear can it get.  The either sex tag restricts them from doing just that.  It allows a A/M hunter to use that tag anywheres in NY.  And yet again I said returning the 10 dollar fee alows them to help fund doing it.

The response was about the position that Tom took about the money. Some feel the DEC just wants to generate money some think it's about improving the deer herd.  If it's about the B/Ml getting by with free DMP then I suggested adding $10 to the license but it's not about the money in my opinion It's about Deer management in the areas that need to increase the numbers of deer.

Dave

Well I do agree It is about deer management.  Adding the 10 fee for a doe permit fits the plan well in my opinion.  Why should a hunter who does not apply for doe permits be charge an additional 10 on his or her regular license to fund the dmp? I think its pretty fair that they are charging for the DMP instead of adding 10 dollars to everyones license epsecially for the guys who do not live in areas where doe permits are given out or for guys who do not apply for them to begin with.  I know a few guys that will not shoot a doe and do not apply for the tags that do not bowhunt either.  So why should they pay more?

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over.

First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!!  If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!!

First off, no need to be technical about the examples I used, you get the point. Second, maybe the fact that there are very few DMPs handed out in your area means that the herd in your area is not in great shape and needs to recover. If that is true, then why cant you see that maybe you shouldnt be shooting does there for a couple or few years so it can recover. Nah, you would rather just keep killing them and complaining about not seeing many deer. DEC isnt taking "your" tag away and selling it to anyone, they are trying to gain better control over the herd in areas like yours.

BTW, if hunting is so poor in your area, hunt elsewhere. Ive given up two hunting areas that I used to go to for just that reason.

Yes I get the your point your an opinionated person who first tells me how to spend my money and than tells me to go hunt some where else!! I'm born in raised in this area so this is where I love to hunt!! This is my home!! Yet other people apply for DMPs that live outside of this erea and get them. I say if you live work and pay tax's in that erea than you should have first choice. then there are those who get permits because they are land owners. Alot of them don't allow hunting yet they buy a tag and get a permit just so there deer don't get shot. There are hunting clubs that get land owner permits but won't allow the taking of does. Some clubs even have in there bylaws that members "must" apply for DMPs but won't allow them to use them on club grounds. I cook for a large hunting camp during the rifle season they have 3200 acers of land and got 24 land owner permits last year, they shot 3 does "for camp meat"!! Then there are those "old schoolers" that don't believe in shooting does yet apply for the permits so others won't get them!! If the state wants to control the heard than only give the permits to people who will use them. Have a check in station where you "must" bring in your doe to have it checked for age, weight, ect. just like they do with bears!! Then the state would know what hunters are reliable as a hunting tool!! I've been Participating in the bow hunter survey for 9 years. Last year i saw 51 does and 5 bucks. The numbers are skewed a healthy heard should be about 3 to 1. If you think this isn't about the state making more money off the DMPs than you got your head stuck in the sand!! I under stand that there is a need to improve there deer heard in my erea yet the states going to allow cross bow here to further "improve" deer management. It's about the $$$$ plain and simple!! If the state wants to improve the deer heard than why have a season on coyote's. They kill more fawns than hunters, they should have a bounty on those things!! It's all about the $$$!!!

I say if you buy or are given "as are land owners" DMPs and don't use them than the state should not issue you them. Sell them to me I'll do my part "improving" the deer herd!!

As just a bow hunter I would gladly pay the $10 fee for and DMP when I buy my archery tag if I was assured that I would get one!! So with your infinite wisdom tell me where it's fair to the bow hunter to take away the either sex tag!!

IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!!

You got one part of that whole thing right, I am opinionated.

I never told you you couldnt hunt where you do, my point is, if its that bad, quit your bitching and find another place to hunt, or quit whining about it. Maybe think about what can improve the hunting situation and deer numbers in your area. Apparently the current way of doing things isnt working very well, is it?

As far as what DMPs are given out to whom and how many goes, you apparently dont understand how they are allocated. The DEC relies on the fact that a very small number of them actually get filled. You can get a better understanding of how it works by reading this...

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/47743.html

Now, if you want to keep having a slim chance of getting a DMP, keep pissing and moaning about not seeing deer and keep the deer herd out of whack in your area, by all means, leave the current system in place.

It has to do with getting a grip on the herd. $10 more from the few who dont buy DMPs now isnt going to make or break their budget.  :

To which some gun hunters may respond: why should bowhunters not be subject to the same DMP rules as the rest of the deer hunting fraternity? Just sayin......

You have a point there.