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Ok let’s clear some things up. Deer are a resource- A Limited Resource- so just because you want to kill more does not mean that the resource can provide/ survive that. NY has vastly different habitat so in 3A high peaks of the Catskills they take 1.2 bucks per sq mile and close to 0 does, and in western NY for example 8R, 9H and 9N the average buck take is 4.6 per sq mile and total deer take is 13.26 per SQ mile. Looks like almost 13 times more deer are taken. If the DEC issued more antlerless tags in 4S then you will have less deer in the future to hunt. Killing does results in less deer and in low productivity areas you will feel the over harvest for years. Ask some of the hunters in the Catskills where doe tags were doubled when the deer population was at 22 year lows and bad winter’s occurred. The reason that hunters see few adult bucks is because the majority of bucks in the state are killed as yearlings. Factor in the unreported yearlings kill and you can see that very few bucks survive to 2.5 +. If these deer are not harvested, they will grow up and get multiple points- you can check out the DEC harvest reports. Even though you may see bucks with a narrow spread THE VAST MAJORITY have a specific inch spread at a specific age. So by setting a point or spread standard the age at which bucks are harvested can be controlled. And genes will not be changed in a wild population by an antler restriction. First 50% of the genes come from the doe which is not affected by buck harvest. Second, hunters will not be removing all of the largest bucks, just some. And in practice a couple years in to an AR program the hunters will know that there are better adult bucks out there and will not harvest yearling bucks that just meet the standard. Remember in NY’s AR areas only 15% of the harvest is yearlings and that includes the yearling buck harvest from youth that are exempt from the program. Currently adult bucks are like unicorns in some areas of NY and as such many hunters feel they will never see one but rest assured when yearling bucks are protected you will see many and be very happy. I talk to those folks all the time and I am one. I am just a meat hunter and the average size of my buck has gone from 80 LBs dressed to 130 LBs and we have gotten some 165 lb 2.5 year olds. I can not wait to get a 3.5 as they are often 200 lbs. I now see bucks fighting which is really cool. And yes they sometimes have nicks and scrapes but nothing life threatening. Calling and rattleling work really well. And there are scrap lines and rubs that are being used by all deer. This is what a more natural deer herd is like and it is great. So in the outstanding areas western and central NY the potential is so incredibly high that is a travesty to not protected yearling bucks. It is like having a winning lottery ticket and letting it expire without ever cashing it in. For all you naysayers, 90% of you will love ARs after a couple years. It is kind of funny that you’re so opposed now but will really like it once it is in place. I have seen it with so many hunters. Trust common sense, sound science and the proven results in NY and in other states, for example Missouri and vastly improve your hunting starting now. We all have only limited time to hunt so the sooner we make this improvement the sooner we will have the best hunting of our lives.

I'm still undecided on them. They may help in the eastern half of the state...but a 3-pt. rule will do nothing here in WNY if the goal is to produce more/bigger bucks. What we need is more ECO officers!!!

I'm excited... Glad others who wish to see it in their area now have it. 3H and 3J (not since I switched to 3H) - its done a lot of good. A lot more bucks running around. I've said it in the past, but the butcher up the block has seen both bigger racks and more meat on the bucks since the AR was put in place.

Propaganda...misleading and filled with half truths.

Although not a huge fan of the 3 on a side AR.. I do like that it finally gets guys thinking about passing on bucks which may in fact allow for greater AR's being accepted in the future.

I am a freezer filler, not a trophy hunter. Some people say, "that's fine just let the small bucks go by, and shoot a doe" No, I'm going to shoot what I see, until I get enough to fill the freezer, I'm not going to pass a forkie in hopes of killing a doe who may not come along. I get a lot of vacation, and a lot of time to hunt, but it's my hunt. As soon as the freezer's full, I'm going back to squirrel hunting anyhow. Antlers are nice, everyone likes them, but they are not my focus. If a nice 4.5 came along & I happened to kill him, cool. If not, oh well, I'll gladly take his little buddy. Once AR's get to my area, I'm done deer hunting, I'll be a full time squirrel killer. Until they start a QSM program, then I'll take up knitting.

What happened to the good ol days when hunting was more about filling your freezer and hanging with family and friends. When any deer harvested was great without having to score inches or age? I still hunt this way like it or not. 8Y here i come!

What about us poor guys who have a small dink, an ugly wife AND like to shoot 4 points ?? I must be a THREE TIME loser !!... I guess I should shoot myself... On second thought, it's time for my NAP...

And there is the poster child for what is REALLY wrong with the sport

Oh boy

Sad but true. In the end, the reason I hunt first and foremost is to fill the freezer since I do not buy industrial meat. Therefore, since the area I hunt gives little to no doe permits, I need to move around to areas with more deer to increase my chances of filling the freezer. Your place sounds nice, coordinates?

I'm going to do some fishing this weekend and maybe tinker with a few game cams. I find it's one heck of a stress-reducer...

Under SZ bowhunting "Early Season: October 1 through the Friday immediately preceding regular season"

Actually not true... spread measurement is the best... the "beyond the ears rule" would save nearly all yearling bucks... the problem with spread measurement for hunter is that they get all rapped up in the "what if"... like.. what if the buck is not facing you, or what if the rack is just to the ears... the answer to that is simple.. don't shoot... unfortunately most hunters are worried about hunting close to the rule instead of beyond the rule... With spread restriction... if the ears are 16" tip to tip... you make the spread restriction 14"... which makes "to the ears" no problem for the guy with itchy trigger finger.. anything outside the ears makes the grade easily... if you listen to the gentlemen here that have been voluntarily passing younger bucks, most of them don't have a problem passing on something that is too close to the minimum or a buck that they can't for sure determine spread width. They are not hunting close to the rule, but are hunting beyond the rule... and spread measurement is no problem. The problem only is with those that in reality need to take a buck at all costs and would rather hunt close to the rule to ensure that they will have an opportunity to tell their buddies that they didn't go without their buck that year..... face it.. we all know what a mature antlered buck looks like and what a small crotch, six or eight look like.. No AR will protect all 2.5 year olds that just comes with hunter experience... their protection comes from protecting yearlings and letting more bucks get to 2.5 where they will get another year of wisdom, which makes them that much harder to kill and gives them the opportunity to reach it to maturity.

I do not hunt in any off the AR units, my only concern is I think some brown and down hunters will seek other places with better odds of harvesting whatever passes by. Which is well within there right if done so legally. Just a bummer seeing deer you let walk all bow season that have potential to become quite impressive and able to carry on there gene pool for more years stuffed in the back of a mini van on opening day.

Then I guess my passing on 100's of 6pts and 8pts is probably BS too, but I've only been passing on younger bucks since 1994... I hate to say you're wrong because I'm not anti AR.. but you're wrong... if you really knew anything about AR's you'd know that 3 on a side, although a good start in some areas... really isn't a good way to protect yearlings... in fact point restrictions is the least effective type of antler restriction. Steve B's approach would serve any area far better than the 3 on a side rule. Unfortunately, most hunters NEED some kind of antler restriction imposed in order to achieve what Steve does on his own. Before jumping on the AR wagon you should educate yourself on why antler restrictions are beneficial.. You seem to think it's to grow bigger bucks to kill... that my friend is the wrong reason to havee antler restrictions.

And I wish you all the luck in the world with ARs, doesnt affect my hunt at this point. I was just commenting because you were saying that SteveB was wrong about the bucks up this way. What you have to remember is that the Finger Lakes/WNY region is a completely different type of habitat than down state, A huge chunk of the region is full of large grain farms, etc. Tough to compare the two regions. Good luck this season!

I could care less about the antler restrictions, but I am excited to see this thread... Wait untill I get some popcorn and a beer..!!... I might have to skip my NAP for this !...

I'm very excited to see this happen. We have been trying to only shoot bucks with 8 points or better on the farm that i hunt for a few years now but it wasn't working b/c the farm right down the road boards hunters and shoots any legal buck they see. All bow season long we would pass up spikes-six point bucks and then come opening day they would be hanging down the road. Now they will be able to survive and make it though the brutal NY gun season. Now if New York state added a one buck rule we would really be in great shape!!! John

No they are not, and even if they were that 50% of those would make it to live on.

Its all Bush's fault

I'd sell my left kidney for those reasons, Dave. Well said. The buck would be all about the memories and the experience. You can't sell the memories...