dbHunterNY

what their deer density numbers desired are would still be generalized so much it wouldn't help some. the most focused I could see it being is maybe per WMU or WMU region. they publish whether or not harvest harvest goals are below or above expectations so that's related. I feel like maybe they look at it more from a sustainable harvest perspective than actual deer density. I don't think having mature bucks is as much of a concern to them as having a healthy population of bucks in general to ensure there's a consumable deer population each following season. I don't work for DEC though so that's my view from the outside looking in.

compared to over populated versus optimum a lesser population could produce as much or more fawns and consequently bucks. In this context of being well below holding capacity or "bare-bones", I most definitely agree that you'll have fewer bucks added to the herd and down the road have less mature bucks assuming constant harvest rates of mature bucks that were born or living just before the down turn. also another thing to consider that backs what you said is the fact that, in a free ranging herd, less bucks born can mean less probability that one will hit the free range genetic lottery and have well above average antlers. ... not sure the quantity of mature or trophy bucks is high on the list of DEC concerns, but that's my understanding.

http://www.rushoutdoors.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831

for those of you in Saratoga or Washington county there's a youth turkey hunting seminars/workshops coming up. I can post or give details later.

I think people are reading into this a little too much like it's a happening because it's a fad or trendy and trophy driven. It's just DEC trying to manage the deer herd in the most basic and feasible way possible, and that's by controlling population. for decades the management goal was to grow the deer herd. don't shoot doe and as long as a few bucks are alive, you good to go. now in general there are plenty of deer around and we're at the point where we don't need herds to grow. we've now got to simply keep what we've got in check. ARs are still new to NY hunters. It's not yet understood why and what they'll do, so right now the only concept they have is bigger antlers. then those thoughts spiral out of control into the false idea that it'll give us all monster trophy bucks. doe reduction hasn't been thought about by hunters as a whole for decades. it can and will change. it's just a slow process that won't happen over night and by itself. education and realization that it's not the same deer herd it was 30+ years ago is imperative.

that's what you get with a bow only WMU and pockets of unhuntable private property everywhere.

I've been curious about this. technically you have to take apart the gun by opening the upper from the lower, to get the mag out. I haven't heard anything more than that laymen's reasoning. no official legal stance has been made for it that I know of. hear anything different?

capability of gun hunters makes it a heavy hitter... I'm with you there. this is the only reliable info i can bring to readily.... from what I've seen you need both, bow/ml seasons are significant to where without them shotguns and rifles can't. co-ops in this region generally do their fair share of doe harvest. out of all the co-ops represented in four counties here ours did the best doe harvest percentage wise and we're the largest in acreage. our numbers were split even and favoring bow/ml doe harvest. there was plenty of tags to go around and encouragement during reg season to harvest doe. also we didn't get our DMAP tags from DEC for the co-op until mid way through early bow. many held off shooting until we finally got those DMAPs as they didn't want to burn their either sex tag on a doe. i think a lot of factors play into it. the regular season only tag holders weren't shooting doe as it wasn't something they're accustomed to doing. also many don't want to ring out a bang the first two weeks of reg gun as they think that's prime time to see that buck they're after and don't want to mess with their hunt/chances. also we all know that after the first days of rifle season deer have caught on and get a bit on edge and wary. so i guess given our situation in NY, that I've seen at least, i can't fully agree that rifle/shotguns are the solution that'd trump all others so readily. one can't pull the cart without the other and there's no lead dog or horse in my mind. i can't see things changing enough to change that either. my opinion and what i know.... as if we all don't have one.

the more hunters work with DEC the better. I wish they'd have people fill out more surveys, but I also wish they had more resources and better ways to process the data. I don't know any details about contracts but I'd bet Cornell isn't cheap.

it's not just DEC. some of us also think there's too many deer given the resources and habitat they've got. we don't have a model but do things like browse surveys, best effort towards trail cameras surveys, co-ops and hunt clubs many times collect harvest data, and many survey deer numbers with their own eye balls to compare common sightings numbers. the problem why people argue and say there's going to be no deer is that many make a generalized statement saying there's too many deer and just whackem' all. in reality we ALL know there's little deer in some areas and loads of deer in other areas. localized john smith says there's too many deer and they're eating everything in sight but down the road due to habitat or hunting pressure there's no deer on bob's farm. he's thinks it's because john smith is whacking all of them when he maybe takes two a season. there is a finite but approximate number to harvest when it comes to doe and everything will be fine. most people in areas with higher numbers can't even fathom that number though, let alone successfully harvest that many even if they have tags in their pockets. doe in an area are easy to kill until you start shooting at them. every one knows you can't do an absolute census of the deer population. not like anyone understands we can freeze time and go looking under every bush. there's lots of ways to approximately figure out numbers of deer in the area and ways to figure out if there's too many. I know for a fact that agricultural entities have a political pull when it comes to deer regulations in some cases. most hunted land in NY is private, with much of it being farms whether it's for a little veg stand or a dairy farm with hundreds of head. if they tick off farmers then hunting access takes a dive, among other things.

I've been wanting to look into this. my dad had a built tree stand that was up in a huge pine tree. it's probably around 30' up the tree, in a hedge row, that over looks 6 fields surrounding a swamp. a couple fields or parts out of common rifle range, but most present shots within 300 yards. it had a nice cushioned railing on it for a good rest. if I put a smaller ladder stand there you won't up over some knolls in a couple fields. not that big of a deal, but he likes watching deer and I like the idea of a ladder to climb. before he just left an aluminum extension ladder up there to get into it. it could comfortably sit a couple people with plenty of room.

I agree with Phade in the sense that earn a buck rules can create an itchy trigger finger to shoot the first thing that appears to be without bone on it's head. it's a problem throughout the season but I think it's elevated versus doe only seasons. I'm for promoting earliest take of doe within our season dates. however, I don't completely like the idea of short week or two season doe only period. puts temptation there to shoot a buck in the doe only season and then wait a week to say you shot it later in the bow season. also some won't like the idea of no chance at all to go after a buck when they normally would. both things we could live and deal with though. so I guess I'm on the fence with that specific idea. i guess I've seen more landowners refuse to fill doe tags due to what they think are low numbers, which makes me be more for increasing opportunity or numbers of doe tags before complex seasons or limiting buck harvest completely by having doe only seasons.

many I know would think about throwing it out of the stand. quite the self control you must have. lol

I've always shot Gold tip or Easton... there are plenty of great arrows out there but those two companies really know their stuff.

must say that's a nice picture and I'm liking her hat. Congrats to you both on a successful outing!

oh yea ... turns out he was hired by NYS to cull deer.

heard they're really sensitive to pH. can't get anything close to freezing or they shutdown. heard if you pot them you should fill top 2/3 with sandy or well draining soil. not sure the yield you'd get from a smaller root system/tree in a green house.

I could send you some through facebook. when I get a chance.

have you found that once tuned for the most stabile/quietest brace height in the beginning of the process with another string (I've got Flemish twist strings now), a bow will tune close to that brace height for multiple sets of strings (say endless loop)? if that's the case I could see you getting around the small amount of twists. I've just stuck with multiple stock sets of identical strings straight from Bear Archery.

apparently she's a new modern day Christian that doesn't read the Bible. In Acts God told Peter to "Get up" or "Rise" and then said "Kill and eat". According to many of us. That gives us a God given right to punch tags and stack game in the freezer.

here's some thoughts on this because I've heard concerns from some others about exactly what you said. DEC can't manage or understand the local deer herd you see often nearly as well as many of you probably could. Their focus is just too broad, because they've got a whole state to worry about. I acknowledge the fact that some hunters simply try and fill as many tags as they're given. However, a hunter doesn't have to fill a tag that he/she can or does receive, but he/she can't fill a tag when one isn't available. Increasing availability of tags will allow for more opportunity where deer numbers are high and the tags are needed on a micro level. a property that's next to another with no hunting and tons of deer, but with much less deer down the road for example. If you're deer numbers aren't as high or higher than they should be then you have the choice not to fill or use yours for the greater good of the local deer. An important part of this is talking to your neighboring land owners and/or hunters and see what they think. try to get them on board with holding back taking more deer, if you both feel the same way. a little bit of correct herd management and deer biology knowledge goes a long way if you're not on the same page. tell them what you think should happen and why, not tell them what to do. if you're seeing deer numbers lower than they need to be, most people understand the need to not shoot as many deer, so I've found anyway. If that's done DEC and us will be managing the deer better than ever. as I'm sure you know, DEC could do whatever possible in their power, but at the end of the season hunters are the dominant factor that pull the triggers.

it's better to take doe earlier than later for lots of reasons so I support at least promoting that. hard to say how many will simply not hunt until they're allowed to take a buck. I doubt it'd be that many though. doe only in muzzleloader season might be a problem as many take nice bucks still or hunt because they've got the woods mostly to themselves. I could see a decrease in muzzleloader privileges sold because of it.

seeing both small and big flocks around. hard to tell exactly but it looks like the numbers are still ok.

sounds about right for me too in 4C. lost a lot with a few days of mild temps and rain. back to cold though.

nice... sounds like great strings. endless loop strings don't allow as of a range for twisting as do Flemish strings I've used on traditional bows but I can work around that. I'd rather buy from someone in NY if the quality and everything is there.