wolc123

We spent Saturday at my siblings cottage up on the St Lawrence. We helped them get their dock fixed from some ice damage, and got their boat in the water. We celebrated my sisters 50th birthday with some Alex-bay wine tasting, beers at Skiff's (they have two of my favorites there, Genny Cream Ale and Genny Light), and more around the campfire later. Today, we stopped for lunch at the in-laws Adirondack lake camp on the way home. Great tee-shirt and shorts weather each day at both locations. It seems like spring got skipped this year and we have already gotten into summer. I have no problem with that other than bass season not being open yet.

I always had the best luck off the mouths of the creeks (Keg & 18 mi at Olcott or 4 mi out of Wilson). Trolling bright orange jointed Rapalas in about 10 ft depths worked well. Look for warmer water off the creeks. We usually ended up with a mixture of browns, rainbows, and cohos. Sometimes, when the action was slower, we would run planer boards. Trout and salmon are way more fun on those than Walleyes, always fighting good after the release, not just dragging in like a log. Just long-line trolling in a zig-zag pattern, off the creeks, allows you to stay on the fish easier with a smaller boat turning radius than when you have boards out. Good luck, the weather looks good over the weekend. Hopefully you get a SW wind and not that darn North one that seems to come up whenever I get up on Lake O.

I will take it if you add the crossbow "full inclusion" question. I am otherwise satisfied with the current deer hunting situation in NY. For myself, basically a pure "meat-hunter" with very little interest in "trophies" (my wife doesn't want to give up any more wall-space and my growing kids are consuming more venison every year). It would be nearly perfect here if we could use a crossbow throughout archery season. If you are really into trophy hunting and are not satisfied with what is available here in NY, consider a move to one of the states that rank higher in that area.

That perch is built similar to one I caught near the end of February, thru the ice up at my in-laws Adirondack camp, while fishing for lake trout. She had swallowed my minnow-tipped jigging Rapala deep, putting her survival in doubt, so I filleted her, along with a fat laker I had caught that morning. I felt a bit sad after finding that the perch egg sack was larger than both of her fillets combined. I probably should have fried up those eggs, as I hear they are not bad eating. I imagine that the one you caught, that much closer to spawning, would have an even larger percentage of body weight made up of eggs.

Willie's Roadhouse on Sirius Satellite has been playing Merle non-stop since the word of his passing came out. They had planned on much of his stuff today anyhow in honor of his 79'th birthday. The man left enough recordings that they could play all day and not have to repeat any. WXRL AM in Lancaster played a nice Merle "song of faith" at 4:55 pm. Merle and Ramblin Lou are probably up there in heaven singing together right now.

In my opinion, there has ever been a better singer/songwriter/entertainer. I am especially thankful today to have had the chance to see a live show a few years back at the Erie County fair. "The Way I am" was my favorite song for many years, until "Amazing Grace" knocked it out of the top slot a couple years ago. Even though he didn't write those two, he sang both of them as well and with more feeling than anyone else I have listened to. He really got into the Gospel music the last few years, which tells me he is probably in a better place now, and we will get to see him again someday. That certainly takes most of the edge of the sadness I would otherwise feel on this, his last birthday down here. He is very likely watching "that bobber dancing" right now, as there has got to be lots of fish up there in Heaven.

I don't think some folks understand how good a deer's ears are and how they equate certain sounds with danger (gunshots, ATV's, etc). I bet they can hear a gun go off from several miles away and pinpoint its location within a few feet. The combination of increased human scent in the woods and gun shots is like flipping a switch, forcing them nocturnal in the zone where I live. If I could get out there at the start of archery season with a crossbow, filling DMP's would be like shooting ducks in a barrel compared to trying to do it after three weeks of archery pressure, let alone after gun season opens. It sounds like the state politicians and the DEC are finally seeing this and hopefully will let us out there at the start this fall.

Not only was there little or any marriage in that show, but there was also little or no mention of Church or Christianity. I find that odd for that era, when they say there was a larger percentage of Christians in the US than there is today (77%). Maybe "they" are wrong and the increasing popularity of shows with a strong Christian message (e.g Duck Dynasty) suggests that we have turned a corner and are headed in the right direction rather than the wrong one. I see now why you posted this in the Cross-bow forum, especially right after Easter. I never had much use for Mayberry and am glad it is finished. Give me the Waltons or Little House when it comes to old reruns. The episodes where John Ritter and Johnny Cash played the Preachers were classics. The family is where it is at, and marriage should be between a man and woman.

Bad analogy or not, I still see it as the senseless maiming of a fine food source. I don't mind others doing it however and I respect their right to do so. I even admit to doing it myself a few times with bass in my own pond. I don't mind sharing archery season with those who choose to use traditional equipment or compounds, so long as they put in the additional time and effort required to attain proficiency with those weapons. Like you though, I question their reasoning for not wanting to share the woods with those of us who prefer the crossbow. All I have seen is pure, selfish elitism. Not all that much unlike the pro-bass wanabees or the dry fly trout fisherman who turn up their noses at those of us who prefer to eat our catch.

The part of this I struggle the most with is why some folks think it is bad to make it easier to kill deer. I see deer primarily as food, and very good food at that. If I want a challenge, I will go out on the golf course, or somewhere else where living creatures are not involved, in my desire to "test" myself. I never understood "catch and release" fishing for the same reason. How many of you "anti-crossbow" folks practice that?

That is an easy one for me because I own 3 now and don't presently see the need for another. If I had to give one up it would probably be my .22/250 (Ruger M77 MkII). It would be tough parting with that one because I cant remember missing a "live" target with it, and have used it on several coyotes, foxes, and scores of woodchucks. The only reason I would let it go is that I don't eat any of those and fur prices are down. I would have been forced to get some more store-bought food without my .22 LR (Ruger 10/22). That gun has kept our family fed from time to time on small game (squirrels and rabbits) when the venison supply has gotten low. It takes a lot of squirrels and rabbits to add up to a deer, which is why my 30/06 (Ruger M77) would be the last to go. Those are my 3 favorites and I know of no others that would perform their given tasks much better. If and when one of my daughters takes up deer hunting, I will probably add a .243 (Ruger American) to the collection, but that would be her gun. 3 rifles is the perfect number for me. As far as hunting the world goes, I have seen enough of it to know that I can get all I need right here in NY state.

It is interesting that there was no question about the crossbow and "full inclusion" on the survey. Could there be a "hidden agenda"? My guess is that those behind the survey did not want to hear that the majority of hunters support full-inclusion of the crossbow during archery season.

It is not "fine the way it is now", especially in the zones that are overpopulated with deer, because the early pressure during archery season forces them to go nocturnal by the time crossbow opens up. A crossbow is more effective at killing a doe from a group than a conventional bow, because it does not have to be drawn with them in close. That advantage is wasted by the late opener. By clinging to "keep them out" or "keep it the same", you are asking for muzzleloaders in archery season. How would that be better for you than crossbows? You would likely get more people and certainly would get a lot more noise. No legal weapon is less effective at taking does than a conventional bow. The crossbow provides a unique opportunity to get populations under control, while keeping things quite. That should make it even more effective, if deployed at the start of the season, than a muzzleloader.

After a two years off, I will soon start working out with my old compound again. The Dr took me off it after some major surgery a couple years ago, but I am back up to 100% now. I will not hunt with my newer compound if they do allow full inclusion. Since that is still up in the air at this time, I want to at least be in proper shape to hunt the early part of the season with the compound. The deer have been going almost fully nocturnal by the time crossbow opens for the last couple years in the zone where I live. I would like to get an early crack at some antlerless deer this season, even if it means a return to the compound. I would say my odds of filling some tags would be about 10X higher if I could use the crossbow from the start of archery season.

My guess is that most who are against it fear the added hunting pressure, and not just from young folks, elderly, disabled and women. I have also heard some say they don't like to share the woods with people who don't want to spend or don't have the time required to develop proficiency with a regular bow. I never could relate to the fact that some like to increase the challenge to themselves and tip the odds more in favor of the quarry. While the deer may get more chance to escape, what about more chance of being wounded and not recovered (they never seem to acknowledge that part)? Personally, I want the deer to have minimal chance of escape and minimal chance of being wounded and I have seen the crossbow help me in both those areas. I would post my "heart-shot" picture again, but that might push some of the anti's over the edge. I hope to maintain my 100% clean, one-shot kill record with my crossbow, which I was never able to achieve with a compound. That said though, I don't mind sharing the woods with those bent on the increased challenge and who prefer the traditional archery methods of recurve and longbow, or even with the compound guys. I am holding back a bit here in my condemnation of the anti-crossbow folks because I think it is important at this time, when full inclusion finally appears near, that we put this behind us and reunite to keep our hunting tradition going in NY for many more generations. Dwindling hunter numbers hurts us all in the long run. The hunter is the best friend the deer has in NY, regardless of the weapon he chooses. United we stand, divided we fall.

I was surprised at the cost of those for a 10/22 when I bought a spare a few years ago. It must be a "supply and demand" issue. It is handy having two, one for hollow-point high velocity and the other for solid-point, standard velocity, but hardly worth the cost.

A point that many are missing concerning last year's 2-week "antlerless-only" zones is the effect of hunting pressure on daylight activity, especially with an abundance of acorns like we have had over the past couple seasons. Why would deer come out in the daylight after they detect pressure, if they can meet their food needs in a few minutes of activity at night? I watched groups of antlerless deer feeding in clover fields every evening, starting up to an hour prior to sunset at both my folk's place and my place over those first two weeks last season. That activity ended at each location by the third week of archery season, long before the x-bow became legal. I am certain I could have filled at least (2) DMPS at those locations, had I been able to use my x-bow during those first two weeks. I have to believe there are many more folks in similar positions. I also don't believe an early gun or ML season is the answer because the loud report of those weapons will force the deer nocturnal even faster. The crossbow's huge advantage over a compound/recurve/longbow of not needing to draw with groups of deer in close doesn't seem to be grasped or understood by many here. How many times have you been busted when you drew your bow on a group of antlerless deer without getting a shot? How many times has that shot, if taken resulted in a missed or wounded deer? There is less worry of that with a crossbow, which can be slowly moved into firing position. Any prey animal is naturally tuned to pick up quick, threatening motions, like a draw, but slow motions usually go unnoticed. There will always be wounded and missed deer regardless of weapon, and the crossbow is not immune. What is wrong with allowing a weapon that clearly takes less time and effort to develop proficiency to be used? I do believe that the crossbow could be a "wonder weapon" for getting doe populations under control for the two reasons stated above (no draw needed and minimal noise), but only if it can be deployed at the very start of the season. It looks like we might just see that this fall. I can't wait to have at them. To those folks who do not want full inclusion, and fear the negative affects on their own hunting experiences, try looking at the positives. The sky has not fallen in the forty some other states which have allowed it. It appears that the your struggle will end soon in NY but think of it as a new beginning and not the end. If nothing else, when age finally catches up to you, it should extend your own time in the woods by a few seasons.

You hit on a couple of the key points there reeltime. The number of crossbow hunters will not be as small if these bills pass, allowing more younger hunters access. The full-inclusion part will let them out there at the start of the season, BEFORE the deer go nocturnal. The deck was stacked against the crossbow these first two seasons. Thanks stoneame2006 for answering Robs questions far more eloquently than I could have.

The reason the two week antlerless only season failed miserably in those zones is because it was limited to conventional archery tackle and that is the least effective legal means for controlling antlerless deer. It can be very effective for killing bucks, which usually travel alone, meaning all you have to do is wait until his head is behind a tree to make the draw. It is a different story with does however, as they almost always travel in groups in these overpopulated zones, making that draw a difficult proposition at best. A drawn crossbow can be very slowly positioned for the shot, not alarming any in the group. That, and being able to use it at the very start of the season changes the dynamics of the situation completely. I actually feel a bit sorry for the antlerless deer this coming season, if these bills pass. They will never know what hits them, probably bringing populations under control in a single year. To reduce the populations significantly, the mature breeder does must be targeted (the last deer taken by wolves per the laws of nature). Once the DEC gets a handle on populations they can keep them where they want them by the number of DMP's they issue the following season. Full inclusion of the crossbow seems to me to be the best way to help them get that handle. Thankfully, it finally sounds like we will find out this year.

What works good for us is adding some egg and forming the patties well in advance of grilling. That means the night before if you are making them for lunch or early in the morning if for supper. Thawing out a pack of bulk grind, forming patties and grilling plain right away, is just going to make a crumbled mess, most of which will fall thru the grill. No worry of that with the added egg and time. We had venison tacos tonight, which is my kids favorite way to eat the grind. No need for the egg and time there and way better for them than beef tacos. Grilling season is almost here however and I am looking forward to some burgers. I gave the grill a test fire on that beautiful day yesterday, but it was way too windy for grilling tonight.

I doubt NY state will be forced to implement that drastic measure, now that it looks like we are on-track for full inclusion of the crossbow this year, with active bills in both the Senate and Assembly. The crossbow, implemented early, is the key to getting deer numbers under control in the zones where the DEC has been struggling as of late. Elimination of the need to draw with groups of deer in close, and the silent report should make for a lethal combination, far more effective than a conventional bow or a ML, each of which lacks one of those traits. We did not see the full potential of the crossbow in the first two years of use here in NY because it was only allowed late in archery season after the bulk of the deer activity became nocturnal due to hunting pressure. If you don't want to see antlerless only in parts of NY, I would suggest contacting your Senator and Assemblymen in support of these bills.

I would be willing to make a concession to those who are against full inclusion. That would be the acceptance of antler restrictions such as 3 points minimum or inside spread greater than 12". These would apply throughout archery season for those over 16 years of age who use a crossbow. Younger hunters could still take smaller bucks, as could those of all ages with conventional archery equipment. Personally, my biggest issue with the current regs is that the deer where I live, which is in a zone where the DEC has struggled mightily to get the population under control, go almost completely nocturnal soon after they detect the pressure in the woods when archery season opens up. Getting out there early in that season, with a "silent" weapon is the key to finally getting those populations under control. I think most would agree that conventional archery tackle is probably the least effective means of killing does, which are almost always in groups in these overpopulated zones, because it is so difficult to make the draw without getting busted by so many sets of eyes. The "predrawn" crossbow overcomes that issue and has the potential to finally get these populations under control.

Did you tan the capes yourself? I used to trap a lot when I was much younger, and if I did not do a good job of fleshing, the hides they would slip. Especially the coons, which have a lot of fat that needs to be removed. I never had trouble with muskrat or fox hides. I know that getting the hides tanned is normally the part that takes the longest as far as getting a mount back from a professional taxidermist. Not many of them seem to tan their own these days. I still have the back part of the hide from the first buck I had mounted, about 30 years ago, laying over a beam out in my barn today. All I did with that one was cut off as much fat and meat as I could and salt the heck out of it. You can pull hair out of it but it takes a little effort to do so. I keep it around in case I run short of bucktail jigs and deer tails during bass fishing season. The body hair works in a pinch, but the fish seem to prefer the action of the softer tail hair. There are some particularly finicky lake trout up at my in-laws Adirondack camp, for which I have tied up some even softer squirrel tail jigs. Although you might be still learning the hard way as far as the tanning process goes, it looks like you have the rest of the work pretty well mastered by the looks of those mounts.

I think full inclusion was prevented by a small minority of mostly 20-40 year old, male bow-hunters who were very concerned that increased hunting pressure from women, young, elderly, disabled, family men and others without a lot of extra time for practice, would infringe negatively on their own hunting experiences. Much like the REBs during the Civil War, these folks fought a courageous delaying action, but on moral grounds, they were clearly on the wrong side of the fight. If you ever find yourself in a conflict and wonder what is the right side morally, just think "What would Jesus do ?". Hint: He died on a Cross and the side He backed has never and will never loose a conflict. The rules of man are fleeting and often riddled with mistakes, but those from up above are eternal. I hold no grudge against these folks. I do not wish to take away their rights to use conventional archery tackle throughout archery season, even though I believe a crossbow is a significantly more effective weapon for killing deer, and antlerless ones in particular. I do believe there is more chance of wounding deer with conventional archery tackle. Although I always wish to use the most lethal, legal means to put meat in the freezer, I respect the rights of those who wish to challenge themselves a bit in order to get that done, especially if they put in the added time and effort. Now that this temporary "civil-war" between us appears to be nearly finished, it is time for us to unite so that our hunting tradition may continue for many more generations. Giving each other the finger might not be a good way to get that done. Happy Easter to all, and Go Yankees.

What would I be willing to give, to be able to hunt throughout archery season with a crossbow, and for my daughters to also be able to participate in the next several years rather than waiting until they are 16 ? Certainly some cash, probably in the neighborhood of $1000, for new equipment alone. We would likely be able to harvest enough deer, specifically antlerless ones, in the southern zones where the DEC has been struggling to get populations in check, to give some venison to the "feed the hungry" programs. I would also give some more of my time and money hunting earlier up in the cash-strapped northern zone. I see more money poured into the state economy, more hungry folks fed healthy food, and improved control over the deer population. What I don't see is a down side. It is awesome to see the fast accelerating approach of "full inclusion", increased youth hunting, and classification of a crossbow as archery equipment.