Hydrofracking in the Southern Tier

[Dave]

Yes, I chose to reword my original comment 2 seconds after I posted it because I wasnt intending to be an a-hole about it. Whats your point?

Im not arguing with you Dave, Im pointing out that you may have worked on some things in the past, but you apparently dont know much of whats going on outside of NYC. My knowledge is based on what is going on and what I know and read about on the subject. I dont claim to be an expert, but I know enough to do a little reading and research before I talk about it.

There is no substitute for experience. And alittle knowledge can lead to assumptions. Each CNG station has to be reviewed and approved by the NYS Public Service Commission so most to the procedures are the same no matter where you build them.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Im not assuming anything, Im telling you what I see around me, and what I have read. Please show me where I have assumed anything in this thread....

[Dave]

You dont have to be attached to any natural gas system for a CNG filling station. They use storage tanks and high pressure pumps.

Nobody is saying CNG will replace gasoline. I see CNG Hondas driving around every day though. We also have fuel cell vehicles running around the area that run on hydrogen, and there are a few of those filling stations around too. Not many, but as the tech develops, the infrastrucre will be built to support it.

You do realize that NYC is not the end all be all of the universe right? Just because they do things one way down there, doesnt mean the rest of the state or country does things the same way.

Please give more information on this statement you made.

You dont have to be attached to any natural gas system for a CNG filling station. They use storage tanks and high pressure pumps.

Where are these CNG stations,?

Who are the Gas companies who supply the gas.

Explain size of storage tanks and their capacity.

What are high pressure pumps?

What pressure does the CNG station operate at.

How does the gas get to the CNG station.

Who used this cng station

What town is it in? Give address

How many CNG stations are there in your area give number and address.

That way I will know what you know about other than NYC

[WNYBuckHunter]

Google is your friend Dave....

http://www.advancefu...om/AFSCFAQ.html

Heres a CNG fueling station map...

http://find.mapmuse.com/map/cng

[WNYBuckHunter]

Some more listings of CNG and Hydrogen refueling stations in my area...

http://alternative-fuel.cleantechnica.com/l/2163/City-of-Rochester-Rochester-NY

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Seems like the main travel corridors in the state are covered with supply. I would have expected i tto move and develop that way. Hit the main travel areas first.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Kinda off topic but , if I have gas at my house I wonder if you could fuel yourself there?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Honda makes a fuel cell car and home generator system that runs off of CNG. Basically, the CNG is used to produce hydrogen, which then runs the generator system in your home. You can then refuel your car from it. Ill see if I can find the info about it, its been around for a while now, but is very expensive.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Heres some of it...

http://world.honda.com/news/2007/4071114Experimental-Home-Energy-Station/

[Dave]

Google is your friend Dave....

http://www.advancefu...om/AFSCFAQ.html

Heres a CNG fueling station map...

http://find.mapmuse.com/map/cng

Your problem is you don't know squat. You find a thread Google the topic find some info. Then make controversial comments to make it like you know what your talking about. Most people that comment on the threads , comment off the top of their heads or their life experiences. You my friend quote Google. Now I know why you comment on every thread that has ever been posted on this site. Jack of all trades master of none.

And to answer a question and tell someone to google it is just your way of saying you don't know squat. Same old stuff from you causing trouble and contraversy , trying to show how smart you are. The guys on this site have your number. From all the mp I have that say same about you. Google that!!!!!!

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I thought WNY was a bit of a bunghole until the day he helped me fix my 'puter. Now we're good! I then realized no one posts more informational posts than WNY. I mean the DEC links, and generally providing resources for people to get the info they need. The posts don't lie. See for yourself.

Dave,

Are you sure this is how you want to spend your retirement? Let's go fishing 4th of July week.

[First-light]

They will tap the resource and sell it to the highest bidder. Your land will get raped and in the end also you and I.

an example:

Apache (NYSE:APA) reports that the scheduled start-up of its Kitimat liquefied natural gas project in western Canada will be postponed for a year, while the firm continues to search for reliable contracts with buyers in Asia. APA owns the proposed plant with Encana (NYSE:ECA) and EOG Resources (NYSE:EOG), and when put online the facility would be the first to transport large quantities of the gas to Asia.

Don't be fooled by these companies, the all mighty dollar prevails. This will not get us off foreign oil.

[Dave]

Kinda off topic but , if I have gas at my house I wonder if you could fuel yourself there?

Most gas disrtibution lines in your neighborhood that you use for heating and cooking are rated from 80# to 100#. That is maximum operating pressure but most lines run at about 60#. But that is not the pressure in your house to run your appliances. When the line in the street is tapped a gas line is run to your house this is probably a plastic gas line. Where the line meets your house there is a regulator installed, most likely on the outside of the house. But some are instaled in the house if it's a very old line, and have a vent line attached from the regulator and then piped to the out side of your house. This is to vent gas outside in the event the regulator fails. You usually can find this vent on the outside of the house it has a red cap with a screen on the end of it. Getting back to your question, once the gas goes through the regulator the pressure is reduced from 60# to about 1/4#. This low pressure is not enough to fuel a cng vehicle.

[Dave]

I thought WNY was a bit of a bunghole until the day he helped me fix my 'puter. Now we're good! I then realized no one posts more informational posts than WNY. I mean the DEC links, and generally providing resources for people to get the info they need. The posts don't lie. See for yourself.

Dave,

Are you sure this is how you want to spend your retirement? Let's go fishing 4th of July week.

Thanks Elmer I needed that, you are right.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hate to say it but I googled it...lol. I didn't know these thisns existed.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/03/brc-fuelmaker-again-selling-phill-home-cng-fuel-station.html

Must be a little compressor pump and not a very big one. takes a day to fill the car if totally empty.

at almost 5 grand I can't see it. I bet even the cost per mile won't equal a hybrid

[Dave]

Hate to say it but I googled it...lol. I didn't know these thisns existed.

http://www.autoobser...el-station.html

Must be a little compressor pump and not a very big one. takes a day to fill the car if totally empty.

at almost 5 grand I can't see it. I bet even the cost per mile won't equal a hybrid

I am sure you would have to check with your local gas supplier. There is some retooling involved and possibly the need for a bigger gas meter. The gas meters are rated by how much gas you would consume for heat and hot water anything more would be out of range of the meter and thus a bigger meter would be required. Plus the fact is these things are expensive, you may never see a break even point.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Your problem is you don't know squat. You find a thread Google the topic find some info. Then make controversial comments to make it like you know what your talking about. Most people that comment on the threads , comment off the top of their heads or their life experiences. You my friend quote Google. Now I know why you comment on every thread that has ever been posted on this site. Jack of all trades master of none.

And to answer a question and tell someone to google it is just your way of saying you don't know squat. Same old stuff from you causing trouble and contraversy , trying to show how smart you are. The guys on this site have your number. From all the mp I have that say same about you. Google that!!!!!!

Sigh. See what I mean Dave? As soon as someone shows that you are wrong about something, you get pissy.

I started off talking about the active wells around me and that there were a few CNG stations nearby. I then ended up looking into some of the things you were talking about, and after reading up on some of it, discovered that what you were saying wasnt necessarily accurate, so I posted the info. Sorry if it stepped on your toes. When I say you should Google it, its because i dont have time to go back and re-do all the reading. Youre a big boy and fully capable of doing it yourself.

BTW, didnt you look up some of the info you were talking about earlier in the thread through Google? But the fact that I did it means I "dont know shit"? Whatever.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Oh be nice Dave. I'm trying to make amends here by pointing out the guy does alot for the site.

p.s.

I'm totally joking, but how much gas do you think you've inhaled over the years? (Dave)

[Dave]

Oh be nice Dave. I'm trying to make amends here by pointing out the guy does alot for the site.

p.s.

I'm totally joking, but how much gas do you think you've inhaled over the years? (Dave)

[WNYBuckHunter]

You are without a doubt the biggert blowhard I have had the pleasure to converse with. A complete egomaniac, self absorbed with trying to discredit anyone who posts on this site. Do yourself a favor take a break and give us a rest from your "MR. know it all attitude" I guess if you didn't have a computer and qoogle you would be a complete idiot and have nothing to post. Not an original idea in your head.

LMAO, I did not go into this trying to discredit you Dave, why cant you understand that? Go back and look at what I first posted. I posted that there were old vertical wells around my area that were producing. What was the first thing you did? Try to tell me that they arent producing, and that they are storage only, blah blah blah. Whos the one that started trying to discredit the other? Whos the one that felt their ego got bruised?

[Grouse]

Dave, your last post isn't warranted and uncalled for. I believe your frustration level is getting the better of you and you are no longer debating, you are insulting. You requested a lot of info and you got it. Nothing wrong with citing info on Google as a source. Just because a guy uses Google, doesn't mean he doesn't know anything. Better to look up info and find out the answer, than think you know the info when you could be wrong.

[erussell]

I have a friend who use to have relatives who lived in Bradford county PA. He said 40 yrs ago he can remember people lighting the water coming from the faucets on fire. It was what they did for fun I guess. So when you hear of people saying their wells were polluted by fracking it may not have been. The wells in some of these areas have never been drinkable from the time they were installed yrs ago. I think Its just more class warfare being instigated by activist envionmentalists. Some people are making a ton of money on this and the have nots are the ones who seem to be making the most fuss. If they were truly worried about water quality then they would be gathering at the sewer treatment plant across from SUNY Binghamton every day to protest. They have been pumping straight sewage into the Susquehanna river for probably the last 10 yrs with approval of the DEC. Also at the confluance of the Chenango and Susquehanna river there is raw sewage coming out of a pipe there also from the good city folk of Binghamton. So while the environmentalists are at the forum protesting fracking. The dump they just took is floating around in the susquehanna. I would probably care a little more about what they said if they werent such hipocrites.

[Doc]

Here's what's bothering me about the whole issue ...... It's our water supply that we are talking about. I have been listening to months and months of all the back and forth arguing all with very impressive credentials and super scientific studies in hand. This from both sides of the issue. So it comes down to who can you believe. Neither side seems to have more credibility than the other. Scientific studies and research, hundreds of eye-witness experiences and accounts .... they have all done excellent jobs of turning it into an issue that leaves the average layman totally confused. So who cares if it's confusing? Well, it's not like it is some item or situation where you can choose not to buy or use or associate with it. It is a discussion about the safety of your drinking water. Take the water off my property, and it would become worthless. Worse than that, if it can be polluted with some of the hazardous chemicals that the frackers themselves admit to, your own water could wind up killing you.

So what's the choices. We have a process that can't seem to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is safe for such a vital supply as the water that you drink. We have a national need for alternative fuel. We have a potential for financial infusions in areas that could use a bit of help. What decision or factor sits highest on our personal list of priorities. For me, I have to put the health and natural resources at the top. I've finally decided that I am against the "fracking" process until they have absolutely proven that it is safe in indisputeble terms. And I don't mean that it is "most likely" or "probably" safe. There is no fuel source that is worth risking anyone's health or water supply on. That's the one thing that's very clear about the whole issue.

[Uncle Nicky]

I have a friend who use to have relatives who lived in Bradford county PA. He said 40 yrs ago he can remember people lighting the water coming from the faucets on fire.

I've seen this in a home in Allegany County, NY as well. There's gas in them thar hills.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Uncle Nicky

[growalot]

Our daughter is dealing with all this down in the Corning area and with trying to buy a house...so far nothing good about any of it and there isn't even drilling going on....then add to that their neighbor in the apt next door works for the gas companies doing these contracts and informed them of many many things...he has recently moved on...back to PA I believe...but if it weren't for loop holes in these contracts...there'd be nothing holding the words on paper....where are the land owners rights when they can go into a group of properties and if the majority sign and you don't ...they can extract the gas from under you ...you just don't get the signing bonus but are payed for the gas and have no choice in the matter...What in the world are land owners in NYS paying taxes for?...When the state is allowing big business to take away any protection of our lands that we at least percieved to have had...

When looking to buy in Colorado ...we found that they buy and sell water rights out there like land...big money....We thought that crazy....Well we recently found we really have no water rights here in NYS...that being some one can come in and destroy your well water for NYS does not have any organization that is in place to protect private wells from contamination...the best you can do is sue after the fact...your underground water supply can get diverted and too bad...I say this Because we are dealing with the possibility of a well contamination from run off on a farm field that will be injected with cow manure...and the entire 50 acres drains directly to our well....there is not a state agency we have not contacted...they all told us the same thing...private well owners are on there own...the best we can and have done is spend hundreds in preempted strikes...full water analysis...and let me tell you that gets expensive ....to show we have nothing in our water. This is so we can go after them later after the fact...which by then ...too freaking late....thanks NY

Edited June 29, 2012 by growalot