Interesting Youth Season Spot on News

[WNYBuckHunter]

I agree, lowering the age is probably the best way. I do kinda miss the party at camp before the Monday opener. On the other hand, its just more days to hunt.

[wdswtr]

You can call it gimmicky and window dressing all you care. See the problem is hunting numbers are dropping, which simply says the old tactics that worked for you are no longer working this day and age on our youth. The opportunity to take a kid out with you on opening day has always been there. Obviously it is not working. So instead of sitting on a dead solution and watching numbers drop and an attempt made to change this from being a never ending cylce of dwindling hunters your just willing to bash the hell out of it because you dont agree nor does your precious NYB on the youth hunt? I also have to say I really find it hard to swallow how much the youth turkey hunt was praised and yet nothing but complaints by a certain bunch of bowhunters who now have additional days added to archery season and cannot fathom letting a 3 day youth hunt take place during a time that archery hunters never had a chance to partake in to begin with. Something strangely odd with that. Let me ask this would NYB be in favor of taking the first 3 days of opening gun away and use that time for a youth hunt only? What I think alot also fail to reconize is a bowhunter still can bowhunt on their own during the youth hunt. You dont have to partake in the youth hunt that bothers some of you so much. For gods sake our youth is our future and what the hell is the big problem with trying something new versus something old that is failing? Sadly most hunters who are against it I already know the answer but they simply cannot come out and say they do not want to accept the idea or chance that someone else might kill a deer and lesson there opportunity out of jealousy, greed or whatever you want to call it. The last claim that opening gun is the best opportunity for a youth to have a chance for some "action" is rediculous for several reasons. First one that comes to mind is southern tier has never had an OCT1 opener nor a 3 day youth hunt on columbus day, so who is to say without first trying that this might be the best opportunity? The other thing is I can only speak for me but I can tell you that opening weekend of gun i see far less deer than I do during bow season. Last minute guys tromping throught the woods finding that weekend hotspot, or the yahoos sighting in there guns on all four sides of your land right up to last light of opening eve sure doesnt do much for the deer around me other than put them on high alert. But yep you nay sayers are all right! Lets just stick to a failed system and die along with it.

Edited July 28, 2012 by wdswtr

[wdswtr]

Like moving opening day to saturday so the kids could hunt. That did nothing except anger alot of guys who likes it on monday.

Turns out the kids who want to hunt were already doing so with the monday opener.

Is this statement for real?

There was alot more intentions to why opening day was switched to a monday aside from youths being involved. For one you no longer had to apply ahead of time for a day off while the whole damn factory had put in for the same day off as well. Also do you really believe that all the kids in school strapping a back tag were given permission to skip school and go? So yeah Im sure it did anger alot of the happy monday shooters, but it gave opportunity for alot more to be in the woods on saturday instead. So yeah the angry monday hunters had to share the woods with some kids and other hard working americans. By chance where you the guy who wrapped all the blaze orange jackets around the trees that first saturday opener?

Edited July 28, 2012 by wdswtr

[growalot]

Also do you really believe that all the kids in school strapping a back tag were given permission to skip school and go?

Now I don't care one way or another..for I'm lucky to be able to step out my door and hunt...but there are many that have to travel and still need to ask for the Friday before off or Thursday to just be able to get to a hunting spot...and it has hurt businesses ...proven...but that said...to your above statement...

I do not believe that the high school I went to nor the one my kids went to was unique ...in having enough kids not show up to school on opening Monday that classes were used as study time or review days...in fact our school ...due to having to have a body count for $$$ would on the down low try to get agreements from the local hunting students to sign in later with an excuse to leave again...yes not a huge school but most schools around us weren't huge schools....what the Saturday change did was.... halt the prehunt Practice...strategy talks and turn.... for some ...the only days to get out... into a major rush rush to get it done ...instead of a for teaching and stories relaxing and fun...personally I'm glad my kids grew up with that for they are still hunters....But they were taught in bow season and SMALL GAME hunting...which is where the real push for kids should be...their first hunting experience should not be in deer season if you want to make future long term hunters..IMO

PS...I see WNYBH

Edited July 28, 2012 by growalot

[Doc]

I dont get it, some of you guys piss and moan about getting kids involved, and that recruitment is low, and every time the DEC proposes a new program to get them involved, you piss and moan about that. Which way do you want it?

Well actually it is quite simple. I want efforts that actually make some sense rather than the gimmicky ideas that people are placing their hopes on these days. If they want to do useful things, then do them in time slots that make sense (For all the reasons I have previously commented about). If you can't rally hunters to mentor youngsters during real gun seasons, what on earth makes you think that they will do so during some trumped up special season? If you can come up with a way to produce such phantom recruitment help, then why can't you do it during traditional hunting seasons. To me it all stacks up to a bunch of wishful thinking and a desire to come up with something .... anything .... that can allow hunters to simply place on the books and then walk away feeling like the problem is solved and that somebody else will now pick up the ball.

Now, if the DEC really wants to do something besides window dressing, feel-good, nonsense, then perhaps they should be attempting to become more visible and active in school programs. Maybe even begin some pro-hunting, fishing and trapping P.R. activities that actually reach out to the non-hunting public. Activities that coerce and encourage hunters to become involved in recruitment would also be useful and aimed specifically at the problem. One of the most meaningful activities that the DEC ever bhecame involved in was the National Hunting and Fishing Days celebrations that they have left floundering (Speaking specifically from recent experiences at the Avon celebrations). There was something that reached an awful lot of people including more youths than any special season will ever reach. And each time I go there it is shrinking. At one time it was a vibrant, growing activity that got larger every year. That was back when Ron Shroeder ran the show and actually took some interest in it. They want to do something that really has an effect on growing and promoting the sport, there is something big that needs a bit more attention than they are apparently willing to give it.

So there are things that the DEC can do to promote hunting that do not involve phoney efforts like special seasons. And, there certainly are a lot of things that those who are so concerned over recruitment can actually do if they simply put their actions where their mouths are. It is amazing how whenever recruitment is discussed, everyone has been conditioned to the knee-jerk response of suggesting some kind of special season like that is some kind of magic bullet that will save the sport. The fact is that we already have a season. It is the time that actual hunting is traditionally done. It is the time of year that friends and families traditionally do get involved. And it is a time that is most likely to offer positive results to new-comers. That is the time to realistically introduce kids to the sport. But it does involve real hunter dedication and action.

[Doc]

You can call it gimmicky and window dressing all you care. See the problem is hunting numbers are dropping, which simply says the old tactics that worked for you are no longer working this day and age on our youth. The opportunity to take a kid out with you on opening day has always been there. Obviously it is not working. So instead of sitting on a dead solution and watching numbers drop and an attempt made to change this from being a never ending cylce of dwindling hunters your just willing to bash the hell out of it because you dont agree nor does your precious NYB on the youth hunt? I also have to say I really find it hard to swallow how much the youth turkey hunt was praised and yet nothing but complaints by a certain bunch of bowhunters who now have additional days added to archery season and cannot fathom letting a 3 day youth hunt take place during a time that archery hunters never had a chance to partake in to begin with. Something strangely odd with that. Let me ask this would NYB be in favor of taking the first 3 days of opening gun away and use that time for a youth hunt only? What I think alot also fail to reconize is a bowhunter still can bowhunt on their own during the youth hunt. You dont have to partake in the youth hunt that bothers some of you so much. For gods sake our youth is our future and what the hell is the big problem with trying something new versus something old that is failing? Sadly most hunters who are against it I already know the answer but they simply cannot come out and say they do not want to accept the idea or chance that someone else might kill a deer and lesson there opportunity out of jealousy, greed or whatever you want to call it. The last claim that opening gun is the best opportunity for a youth to have a chance for some "action" is rediculous for several reasons. First one that comes to mind is southern tier has never had an OCT1 opener nor a 3 day youth hunt on columbus day, so who is to say without first trying that this might be the best opportunity? The other thing is I can only speak for me but I can tell you that opening weekend of gun i see far less deer than I do during bow season. Last minute guys tromping throught the woods finding that weekend hotspot, or the yahoos sighting in there guns on all four sides of your land right up to last light of opening eve sure doesnt do much for the deer around me other than put them on high alert. But yep you nay sayers are all right! Lets just stick to a failed system and die along with it.

First of all, let me straighten you out on a few points. As a bowhunter, I could care less whether they hold that bogus special season. My only concerns are about people concocting this ridiculous season and then walking away wiping their hands convinced that the problem has been taken care of and all is well in the world. That kind of solution is definitely typical of today's thinking and actions, but I believe that something more than simple feel-good, knee-jerk solutions have to be worked on. In fact, it is just possible that some who would have otherwise taken some kids out may change their minds thinking that the problem has already been taken care of by "somebody" because of the creation ofthis special season.

Personally, I doubt if I will be out there fighting the sweat and mosquitos, bowhunting at the time they are proposing the youth hunt anyway. Also, I thoroughly believe that the impact will be so insignificant that I probably won't even know that it is going on. So you can save your tirade about the evil bowhunters and maybe spend a bit more time actually thinking about real, useful, honest, solutions.

I also have to ask. Those that are so hot to take a kid out during a special season, what is keeping them from taking a kid out during the conventional season? Is there something magical about a special season that all of a sudden makes hunters do the responsible thing? Has anybody actually put enough thought into this idea to ever ask that question? No, not really. Somebody has come up with an idea for them and it's real easy to mindlessly sign on to it (good idea or bad) and then pat themselves on the back thinking they have really done something. When that happens, all creative thinking ends. The problem is assumed to be fixed, and any new thoughts are never started. That's the danger of just trying something .... anything.

The other thing that has always impressed me about these special seasons is that they are primarily aimed at kids that already have an interest and would normally be eager to get involved with hunting anyway whether there was a special season or not. That really is not recruitment. That's simply a couple of extra days to hunt. When you start talking about programs that reach kids that are not already engaged or interested in hunting then I will consider that you are working on a recruitment problem. That would require some real creative and useful and effective thinking.

As written in my previous reply, get behind meaningful things. Work on some of those hunters that can't seem to have the time to introduce youngsters to hunting. Work on public programs aimed at convincing hunters and hunter organizations to get involved in youth mentoring and recruitment. Work on some of those kids that are not interested in hunting and make them interested. Work on up-grading the public image of hunting. Re-institute the "cool " factor. Insist that the DEC get active in schools and other youth groups. If you want to increase recruitment into hunting, you have to realize that you are competing against all the other distractions of the day. We're into a sales job, not just a few extra hunting days for those that are already sold. Put some real thought into the problem, and then get behind real solutions.

[wdswtr]

The "special" season has been tried, was a huge success and still is for a youth turkey hunt. What makes you feel that since this tried program worked once in NY already that it cannot be the same for a youth deer hunt? Until it actually has been tried why the constant bashing of it? Incase some people havent noticed America has changed, NY has changed our adult and youth way of thinking has changed, if we dont change or atleast try different things to changed a failing system then we are all fools. Its pretty clear we as mentors are failing on our part with overall numbers to be a mentor to the youth to get them in the field, theres no denying it by anyone because the numbers are proof. Instead of just sitting back and do nothing an attempt is being made that was a success once already. Most kids these days want that Im special feeling regardless of what we think about that. This is eactly what the Special Youth hunt does, gives them that and a time shared with an adult mentor they can call thier time in the woods for a few days. What the hell is so damn wrong with that? Not a thing, nothing, nadda,zippo, zilch. Its a far better attempt and something to start with versus sitting on there ass watching the numbers drop.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Wdswtr, perfectly stated. 100% agree.

[Doc]

The "special" season has been tried, was a huge success and still is for a youth turkey hunt. What makes you feel that since this tried program worked once in NY already that it cannot be the same for a youth deer hunt? Until it actually has been tried why the constant bashing of it? Incase some people havent noticed America has changed, NY has changed our adult and youth way of thinking has changed, if we dont change or atleast try different things to changed a failing system then we are all fools. Its pretty clear we as mentors are failing on our part with overall numbers to be a mentor to the youth to get them in the field, theres no denying it by anyone because the numbers are proof. Instead of just sitting back and do nothing an attempt is being made that was a success once already. Most kids these days want that Im special feeling regardless of what we think about that. This is eactly what the Special Youth hunt does, gives them that and a time shared with an adult mentor they can call thier time in the woods for a few days. What the hell is so damn wrong with that? Not a thing, nothing, nadda,zippo, zilch. Its a far better attempt and something to start with versus sitting on there ass watching the numbers drop.

I guess you didn't read a word of my reply, so I'll just save the effort of replying to this one.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well actually it is quite simple. I want efforts that actually make some sense rather than the gimmicky ideas that people are placing their hopes on these days. If they want to do useful things, then do them in time slots that make sense (For all the reasons I have previously commented about). If you can't rally hunters to mentor youngsters during real gun seasons, what on earth makes you think that they will do so during some trumped up special season? If you can come up with a way to produce such phantom recruitment help, then why can't you do it during traditional hunting seasons. To me it all stacks up to a bunch of wishful thinking and a desire to come up with something .... anything .... that can allow hunters to simply place on the books and then walk away feeling like the problem is solved and that somebody else will now pick up the ball.

Now, if the DEC really wants to do something besides window dressing, feel-good, nonsense, then perhaps they should be attempting to become more visible and active in school programs. Maybe even begin some pro-hunting, fishing and trapping P.R. activities that actually reach out to the non-hunting public. Activities that coerce and encourage hunters to become involved in recruitment would also be useful and aimed specifically at the problem. One of the most meaningful activities that the DEC ever bhecame involved in was the National Hunting and Fishing Days celebrations that they have left floundering (Speaking specifically from recent experiences at the Avon celebrations). There was something that reached an awful lot of people including more youths than any special season will ever reach. And each time I go there it is shrinking. At one time it was a vibrant, growing activity that got larger every year. That was back when Ron Shroeder ran the show and actually took some interest in it. They want to do something that really has an effect on growing and promoting the sport, there is something big that needs a bit more attention than they are apparently willing to give it.

So there are things that the DEC can do to promote hunting that do not involve phoney efforts like special seasons. And, there certainly are a lot of things that those who are so concerned over recruitment can actually do if they simply put their actions where their mouths are. It is amazing how whenever recruitment is discussed, everyone has been conditioned to the knee-jerk response of suggesting some kind of special season like that is some kind of magic bullet that will save the sport. The fact is that we already have a season. It is the time that actual hunting is traditionally done. It is the time of year that friends and families traditionally do get involved. And it is a time that is most likely to offer positive results to new-comers. That is the time to realistically introduce kids to the sport. But it does involve real hunter dedication and action.

Like i said before, its no gimmick, its been proven in other states, and it will work here. I honestly cant understand why you keep using the same tired argument against it. Maybe its a case of "if you say it enough, it makes it true" or maybe you are just so set in your ways, you just plain refuse to look into it with an open mind.

I do agree that it will take more programs and changes to really turn things around. Im not sure where you figure i or anyone else thinks the youth season is a one stop shopping, cure all or magic bullet to solve all of our recruiting woes. Ive said many times that its just part of the puzzle. We have to stop thinking in the old ways, they are proven as well. Proven not to work.

[Meat Hunter]

From DEC

Thanks for writing me to ask for clarification concerning the Department's

deer hunting regulations. I realize that there is a lot of confusion

concerning the youth hunt (firearms) for deer. I hope that the following

somewhat detailed explanation will help to set the record straight.

As you know, DEC adopted final regulations on deer hunting on July 11, 2012.

This culminated a long process that started with public meetings on deer

management that were held in the fall and early winter of 2009. We hosted 20

public meetings that reached over 1,000 hunters and other stakeholders.

Following that process, we conducted a scientific survey of deer hunters to

evaluate their attitudes towards various aspects of deer hunting, including

a youth hunt. In that survey (done by Cornell University), we learned that a

majority of hunters support a youth hunt.

DEC's wildlife biologists and wildlife managers subsequently drafted a

statewide deer management plan that addressed a variety of important

subjects including the all-important need to recruit and retain hunters.

Specifically, we identified as a key objective a strategy to "Incorporate a

firearms deer hunting opportunity for youth in all portions of New York

where hunting deer with firearms is allowed."

As you recall, our draft plan was made available for extensive public

review. While it is clear that New York deer hunters support the concept of

a youth hunt for deer, they did not reach an overwhelming consensus on

exactly WHEN that hunt should occur. So, to help DEC managers and

policy-makers determine the best course of action in selecting those dates,

we asked those persons most directly concerned--young people and their

mentors. Thus, we conducted a second scientific survey and we learned that

Columbus Day weekend is the most preferred time for New York's youth hunt.

Consequently, we made that proposal in the rule-making referenced above.

When we adopted the regulatory changes on July 11, 2012, DEC indeed adopted

a youth hunt with firearms on Columbus Day weekend. We provided an

assessment of public comment to the rule-making, including addressing input

received on the proposed youth hunt. See:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerregapc2012.pdf. Note in

particular this part of the assessment--"A special youth deer hunt will

provide interested junior hunters a special opportunity to hunt deer under

the mentoring and supervision of an experienced adult without competition

from adult firearms hunters. This is believed to be an important factor for

recruiting new hunters, which is essential for the future of deer

management. DEC also agrees with hunters in supporting legislative efforts

to reduce the minimum age for big game hunting with a firearm from 14 to 12

years of age, and we believe this would be a valuable enhancement to DEC's

current efforts, giving more youth hunters more opportunity to participate

in the youth firearms deer season."

I should note, because it is important: If we had "pulled" the youth hunt

out of our regulatory proposal in July, we would have been required to put

the entire proposal out for public comment for an additional 30 days. The

rule-making process is governed by state law, and any major change to a

proposal requires an additional public comment period. This would have

complicated our ability to have ANY of the new regulations described in the

Hunting Guide (e.g., the October 1st opener for bowhunting), and that would

have caused mass confusion among our hunting community. So, we decided it

would serve the public best by adopting the original regulatory proposal

intact (including the youth hunt).

As you know, however, nearly at the same time as we were wrapping up the

rule-making process, the Legislature passed a bill, A. 10583-A/S. 7705-A,

that would remove DEC's authority to establish such a youth hunt as proposed

(with firearms). As of this writing, it remains uncertain whether that

legislation will become law.

In the event that A. 10583-A/S. 7705-A becomes law, DEC will need to amend

the regulations to ensure that all of our regulations are in alignment with

current laws. We would need to amend the portion of our regulation dealing

with youth hunts, leaving everything else intact (e.g., the changes in

opening date for bowhunting and the expansion of antler restrictions.) In

the event that this legislation does not become law, our regulations and the

youth hunt on Colulmbus Day weekend in 2012 will take place as planned. I

expect that we will know one way or another in the coming weeks.

And, to make this just a bit more complicated, while we were finalizing the

regulations and while the Legislature was considering bills at the end of

the Session, we were working hard on finalizing our annual Hunting Guide.

Because of the uncertainty about the youth hunt, we did not include this in

the Guide. Instead, the Guide will state "to be announced" at a future date,

in reference to the youth hunt.

If indeed the youth hunt goes forward, we will publicize it via news release

and on the DEC website. We fully expect that it will receive very wide

attention among our hunting community, and this will enable adult mentors

and young people to begin planning their youth hunt on Columbus Day weekend.

I, for one, certainly hope that New York youngsters can enjoy this benefit

and get "hooked on hunting" at an early age. I have watched with great envy

the success of youth hunts in other states, and I hope we can bring the same

benefit to New Yorkers. After all, they are our future.

[WNYBuckHunter]

From the sounds of it, its not the DEC screwing the pooch, its the underhanded minority groups like NYB that are the fly in the ointment. Doesnt surprise me too much.

[Doc]

Like i said before, its no gimmick, its been proven in other states, and it will work here. I honestly cant understand why you keep using the same tired argument against it. Maybe its a case of "if you say it enough, it makes it true" or maybe you are just so set in your ways, you just plain refuse to look into it with an open mind.

I do agree that it will take more programs and changes to really turn things around. Im not sure where you figure i or anyone else thinks the youth season is a one stop shopping, cure all or magic bullet to solve all of our recruiting woes. Ive said many times that its just part of the puzzle. We have to stop thinking in the old ways, they are proven as well. Proven not to work.

I keep repeating myself because apparently it is all going right over your head, or you just find it convenient to ignore logical arguments. Either way, you win, because I really am getting weary of explaining things and having them ignored.

And also, if you are going to insist that these special seasons work elsewhere, please explain how many youth attendees have actually purchased additional licenses in subsequent years. To me that is the only measure of whether they are working or not. After all, it is not a state sponsored "good-time", it is supposed to be a recruitment tool.

[skully]

Dont waste your time Doc, It is so transparent that the guy does not want his kids ruining his opening day so he needs the SPECIAL youth hunt to get them out of his hair. If that was not the truth these humps would not have complained so much about the youth hunt being sat and sun and moving the reg season to Mon. And remember what there excuse was, " It maybe to cold for them"

"you cant make this shit up"

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ask and ye shall receive Doc

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-01-young-hunters_N.htm

[WNYBuckHunter]

Skully, you sure do like to ASSume things dont you? You must have brown eyes....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Heres more...

http://gf.nd.gov/sites/default/files/publications/magazine/track-new-hunter.pdf

[Paula]

HA

[wdswtr]

Dont waste your time Doc, It is so transparent that the guy does not want his kids ruining his opening day so he needs the SPECIAL youth hunt to get them out of his hair. If that was not the truth these humps would not have complained so much about the youth hunt being sat and sun and moving the reg season to Mon. And remember what there excuse was, " It maybe to cold for them"

"you cant make this shit up"

You just did make shit up!

Having my kids afield with me any day is not a ruined day in fact its just the opposite. For you to even think along those lines is beyond rediculous. Your last part about us HUMPS makes zero sense as well. You see we are not complaining about a youth hunt we are defending it and in full support. We hear DOC loud and clear and everything he is saying is not going over our heads. Its a system that has and is failing, a system that every hunter in NY has had the opportunity to do for longer than I have been alive, it doesnt work hasnt worked and obvioulsy will continue down that same path. See the thing is DOC makes some very valid points and points that I sure wish was actually happening, but they are not. So stand up and fight against a youth hunt you guys are so against during a time that you have never had the chance in STier to even hunt in but yet cant fathom giving 3 days of it to a kid.

Edited July 29, 2012 by wdswtr

[Doc]

Ask and ye shall receive Doc

http://www.usatoday....g-hunters_N.htm

Well, those are great statistics about the effectiveness of establishing "apprentice licenses" which I assume is another phrase for "junior licenses", but when it came to the stats, I saw nothing that talked about or indicated that any special hunts added even one hunter to the roles. Yes, I am a believer in junior licenses. That really was not the topic here. My question related to stats showing how many new hunters were added because of special seasons, not special licenses.

[Doc]

.........Its a system that has and is failing, a system that every hunter in NY has had the opportunity to do for longer than I have been alive, it doesnt work hasnt worked and obvioulsy will continue down that same path.

Well, you have just proven my point that you are not even reading my replies. The things that I have been talking about have not even been tried, so how could they not be working. That is why it is so frustrating to try to discuss anything with you guys. What's the point if you refuse to read opposing views?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well, those are great statistics about the effectiveness of establishing "apprentice licenses" which I assume is another phrase for "junior licenses", but when it came to the stats, I saw nothing that talked about or indicated that any special hunts added even one hunter to the roles. Yes, I am a believer in junior licenses. That really was not the topic here. My question related to stats showing how many new hunters were added because of special seasons, not special licenses.

Doc, did you read the article? Specifically this part....

"Families Afield's latest report showed that since 2005, more than 418,000 apprentice hunting licenses for deer, upland birds, turkey and waterfowl have been sold in the USA. The report was based on 24 states and found an increase of 100,000 apprentice hunting licenses in 2009."

The term apprentice license is the same as youth license. That right there says between 24 states, there was an increase of 100,000 youth licenses in one year. Its a direct result of thise states opening youth seasons, as the article is referring to increases in participation since 2005, when youth seasons started to be established.

You also completely ignored or missed the second link I posted. You asked for stats, and I gave them to you, yet you still try to find a way to put some sort of negative slant on it. Look, I m not trying to argue your opinions, just showing that your comments that youth seasons are gimmicks and unproven, and that they wont have the desired effect on recruitment are wrong. If you have other reasons that you dont want the youth seasons in, hey, thats your porogative.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Some very interesting points brought up, all good ones. Very strong arguements. Makes me wonder how 1000 hunters can make the determination for the whole hunting community. They lean towards the majority, but 1000 hunters at 20 meetings ,come on. Out of all of the 100s of thousand of hunting licenses sold in NY, Then they do a scientific survey, this decides the fate of the 5 year deer plan, OMG. Oh and the 30 day comment period, someone reads them and tosses in the garbage.

Edited July 29, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[Dom]

Some very interesting points brought up, all good ones. Very strong arguements. Makes me wonder how 1000 hunters can make the determination for the whole hunting community. They lean towards the majority, but 1000 hunters at 20 meetings ,come on. Out of all of the 100s of thousand of hunting licenses sold in NY, Then they do a scientific survey, this decides the fate of the 5 year deer plan, OMG. Oh and the 30 day comment period, someone reads them and tosses in the garbage.

Very good observation.I do not care if this get's past or not I will still bring my nieces/nephews hunting and fishing any time they want to go.1000 hunter's and other stakeholders why not mail a survey to all NY hunter's and get everyone's input,that makes sence to myself.That is the problem with this country if you are not 26-56 Years of age this country could care less,Our great government dos'nt care about the young or the elder's.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The easiest way would be to make every hunter fill out a 5-10 question survey at the time they purchase their lisence. It could be done at the store or online. That way, everyone would have an opportunity to put their 2 cents in.