Property lines and shooting game......

[MountainHunter]

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion as well as their own decision as to how to react to someone trespassing on their land. I have made clear the distinction I have been talking about. If someone is a persistent offender and it is clear they are intending to trespass then I would prosecute. If it was a happen stance occurrence I wouldn't,it would also depend upon the demeanor of the hunter,are they friendly,apologetic,respectful etc.. I trust my judgement to know the difference.

I don't know what this persistant offender thing is that you keep talking about. It is absolutely impossible to get through my posted line without seeing at least 3 posted signs. That was the criteria I used when putting them up. along the line, you are never out of sight of at least 3 signs. So anyone trespassing on that land even for the first time is willfully doing so and they know it. It is no mistake. I don't have to catch them more than once. They have decided to disregard the signs and I have decided to prosecute just as it says on the signs. Persistant offender be damned!

Doc

My views are clear on this as are yours move on.

[MountainHunter]

So Doc, if someone shoots a deer on thier or public land and it dies on your land, you would not allow them to retrieve the deer?

If someone contacts me and asks permission to retrieve a deer, I will give them permission, and I may even escort them while they do it. I want to see the blood trail. My name & address are on the posted signs and I live on the property so that isn't a real hard thing to do. However, I will tell you that in the 40 years that I have lived there, no one has ever done that, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to ever happen. Those that do not ask permission, if caught, will be prosecuted.

Doc

Good deal. I agree with you as well.

I do have to say though, that there are landowners that cause guys to not get permission because when asked, the landowner denies the guy from going to drag his deer off. Happened to me with my first ever buck at the age of 19. I shot a deer on state land, it ran 100 yards and died 30 yards onto private property. I knocked on the door and asked the guy very politely if I could drag my deer off of his property and back onto state land to field dress it. He not so kindly told me no. I explained that it was dead and only a few yards in, and my first buck, I again was told no followed by the door slamming in my face. I went and got a DEC officer (no cell phones back then) and had him come with me, the guy had the deer tagged and hanging in his garage. Nothing the DEC officer could do.

So how many deer would you lose before you stopped asking for permission and just went and got the deer you shot? I'm guessing one. Say the same thing happened the following year on the same unreasonable land owners property. Are you going to tell me with sincere honesty that you would forfeit another animal? Please forgive me if you say yes because I would not believe it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So Doc, if someone shoots a deer on thier or public land and it dies on your land, you would not allow them to retrieve the deer?

If someone contacts me and asks permission to retrieve a deer, I will give them permission, and I may even escort them while they do it. I want to see the blood trail. My name & address are on the posted signs and I live on the property so that isn't a real hard thing to do. However, I will tell you that in the 40 years that I have lived there, no one has ever done that, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to ever happen. Those that do not ask permission, if caught, will be prosecuted.

Doc

Good deal. I agree with you as well.

I do have to say though, that there are landowners that cause guys to not get permission because when asked, the landowner denies the guy from going to drag his deer off. Happened to me with my first ever buck at the age of 19. I shot a deer on state land, it ran 100 yards and died 30 yards onto private property. I knocked on the door and asked the guy very politely if I could drag my deer off of his property and back onto state land to field dress it. He not so kindly told me no. I explained that it was dead and only a few yards in, and my first buck, I again was told no followed by the door slamming in my face. I went and got a DEC officer (no cell phones back then) and had him come with me, the guy had the deer tagged and hanging in his garage. Nothing the DEC officer could do.

So how many deer would you lose before you stopped asking for permission and just went and got the deer you shot? I'm guessing one. Say the same thing happened the following year on the same unreasonable land owners property. Are you going to tell me with sincere honesty that you would forfeit another animal? Please forgive me if you say yes because I would not believe it.

As long as I could see the deer on that property, Id just hide my gun in the brush and go get my deer as quickly as possible. Now if it was a different landowner that I did not have a bad experience with, I still ask for permission first.

You guys can bash me all you want for being honest. I dont care, at least Im honest.

[MountainHunter]

No bashing here I would do the same thing,and absolutely have no problem sleeping at night. I don't take a stamp from my own business with out paying the forty four cents, I don't need any one to lecture to me about morality or honesty.

I had a guy shoot a buck on our land several years ago,he was actually hunting on our property with out permission,he did not realize it because it was not posted. Initially I was not pleased,but the guy was so excited and so apologetic,I congratulated him and helped him get the deer out of the woods. A little consideration goes a long way! When you act decently to other people it always come back to you.

[growalot]

I'm with Doc on this and won't apologize for my position

All signs 60-80ft apart have my name and cell #

I have contacted(went door to door) and gave info to all that boarder me and gotten their info

Explained that should a deer cross the line call me...don't walk over if you see orange..I'm HUNTING...call me...I will help track ..gut...and drag

If you or a buddy are on my land with out me ..You could be a relative and by Heaven I will have you arrested for trespassing period. Oh and yes been there done that on other issues with relatives...just in case you rolled your eyes

I was at camp one year and the guys all went to the store...I decided to still hunt down the hill...I get to with in 300yrds of the property line and  big doe pops upright infront of me....I pull up and just as I get a bead On her shoulder a piece of orange catches my eye...There on the other side of the retreating doe pops the head of the neighbor that borders down the hill from us...100ft away walking up the hill towards me ...ONE...I could have easily shot him...TWO he could have shot me!!...When I called out he wanted to knew what I was doing?...and said he'd watched the trucks leave..SO!!!!

This is the same guy that ...yes we had all lost deer to...for we'd ask permission and he'd say no then go look for the deer....we stopped asking and then still wouldn't go look....It took my first buck...6pt and I learned to shoulder shoot...pass on shots for another day...but never trespassed ..for there is no good reason no matter how you word it

[orion]

Doesn't anybody get along with their neighbors.

What if a shot deer ran onto your property and they couldn't get in touch with you?

Let the deer rot?

[First-light]

I have 4 different people who border me. Hunt club to the north, great bunch of guys. To the west a guy who owns a small 9 acre parcell with his girlfriend, again they are very nice and only hunt gun and opening week. To the east is a guy who I became great friends with. Being I'm from out-of-town he looks after the place gets the water and heat going before I get there. We are best of friends! 4th guy I don't know and never had a problem with. I'm lucky to have such good neighbors.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Same thing happened with a buddy of mine last year on a beautiful 10 point bow buck.....the LO was parading it telling everyone he shot it. The DEC officer couldn't even make any headway with the goof

[Doc]

Doesn't anybody get along with their neighbors.

I live next door to a big old farmhouse that has been refurbished into 5 apartments. The turnover of tenants in that place is constant. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to picture what kinds of problems exist there. On the other side we have state land. I can tell you a whole lot of stories about some of the people that show up there and want to hunt my front or back yard ..... lol. I have a small hunting cabin on top the hill that has been completely trashed so many times that I have finally given up repairing it, and a whole list of offences from neighbors involving ATVs, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, horses, etc., and all kinds of trespassing problems that I noted in an earlier post on this thread. So when someone asks why I post my property and am such a hard head about enforcement, I have what I consider to be pretty good reasons.

That's my situation, but I can appreciate what it must be like to be someone who tries to manage their property for QDM or invests a fortune and a pile of hours into food plots, or simply wants to try out some AR techniques or controlled hunting or other herd management techniques. Is somebody going to argue with their right and need to post their property? How about people who have their houses or camps in the woods and have a safety stake in not having their place over-run with people. And then there are simply people who bought the land for a bit of privacy. How many city-dwellers welcome their neighbors and others to use their yards as if it were their own?

There are many reasons why people post their property and most of them are completely valid. But the plain fact is that in all cases, the people paid their money to purchase the property, and they pay money for taxes, and they are the ones who put in land improvements, and that really is all the justification they need for keeping others out. It's as simple as that.

Doc

[SteveB]

I do see a difference between someone whose intention it is to hunt your land and someone who is hunting on someone else's land they have permission to be on and they have a shot opportunity on your property line and they take it.

I don't see a bit of difference. Catch and they get prosecuted 1st and every time.

Didn't use to do that, tried the warning thing and things never changed. Always an excuse or an I'm

sorry. Now zero tolerance - and I too sleep well.

Recovery rights are worked out well prior to season instead of waiting to see if needed. Have agreement with all but one - because of his past actions, he will never be allowed to recover under any conditions and will be prosecuted if caught.

[Doewhacker]

SteveB has it right, we have all year to try and get recovery rights and most will not have an issue with going and getting one that crossed the prop line. Hell I sent out letters to neighboring property owners months ago now, they are from the city but it didn't stop me from looking them up and trying to contact them.

I might not ever understand why some will hunt on the property line when they have so much room over just a bit.

[growalot]

Orion....first I live here..there is no way they can't reach me...excuse #1

I did say cell phone didn't I?...ya know..... those little 2x4in electronic wonders ppl have stuck to their ears All the time....well mine is in my front pocket and charged nightly......DUCK...there goes excuse # two

  Deer don't rot with in a couple of hours...in these hills the temps this time of year.. usually run 5-10 degrees colder than any where else...see how simple it is...unless...thats right...there isn't a blood trail that starts off my property....

[orion]

growalot,

You are always available, never have you not been available?

You must have fun hunting answering every call that comes in.

Then I stand corrected.

[growalot]

Seriously?...ppl that know me ..hunt and if not are family...so no calls there...and any one else...well my neighbors are on my contact list sooo...they pop up on the screen....allowing me to..... that's right answer what calls need answering....see how flimsy excuses become : 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Missing the point Orion....Bottom line...It is HIS land..period...If it was that important to the hunter needing to go in there....call him before the season and talk to him. Those who wait till an animal is down have no one to blame but themselves if they loose it. Take responsibility for ones own actions and don't pawn "your whoa is me" on some one else. (not you personally but anyone who won't take the time to do the leg work).

Lets face it ..how many peopl go and hunt a new peice of property on the spur of the minute. Do we wake up one morning and say I will hunt this nice spot I saw over across town...no...we know where we are going to hunt. Make appropriate arrangements.

[MountainHunter]

Do you guy's want to argue or do you want to hunt? Maybe we should use Europe's system where the property owner owns the game. Given having the appropriate permission I am going to hunt on the property I have permission on in the best possible location in my opinion that property has to offer.If it is close to a property line than so be it,if you want to spend your time and energy making sure I don't shoot across your property line or recover a deer on your property go ahead. It seems like a terrible use of some one's time to me. I will say that I do not hunt in area's where others are hunting, so if I come across evidence of another hunter or hunters in an area I am out of there.

I have been hunting a very long time and have never had a trespassing conflict,and I don't anticipate I ever will. I have said it before in the old forum,if I shot a deer and it crossed on to property that I didn't have permission to be on practically all land owners would think I was an idiot if I sought them out before just going and getting the deer. Your intentions are to utilize an animal that you have shot,what reasonable person would give you a hard time about that? There is a big difference with someone who has intention of violating your property rights and someone who didn't intend to be on your property and an animal they shot expires on their land. Would a police officer ticket a family member following the ambulance that had one of their family inside of it? Gosh I sure hope not. IT IS CALLED THE PROPER USE OF DISCRETION! Now lets beat the crap out of this some more!

[orion]

growalot, you are wonderful everything perfect.

Take a lesson from Scot

[catskillkid]

    Unfortunately it has come to the point that as a landowner who hunts his own land. Many intentional acts by tresspasers and poachers has jaded us to the point that we just say no to everyone. We have all heard the same excuses and lies before. If it was not for our past experiences with these people, I would be much more lenient.

    If asked first, I will always allow someone to retrieve an animal who crossed onto my land after being shot elsewhere. I would appreciate the same consideration in return if it happened to me. We all know that bad shots do happen on occasion.

    I am fortunate to have neighbors who respect the lines, it seems the people that I have a problem with are friends and family members that my neighbors give permission to hunt their land. Once they have access to one piece of land, they think the whole mountain is theirs to hunt.

   

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, I agree that people have a right to keep people from hunting or 4 wheeling or whatever on their land, but to deny recovery of an animal that was clearly shot on adjoining property (not on the line) is just plain being a disrespectful a-hole.

SteveB, I always get recovery rights and other permission worked out with the neighbors ahead of time for land that I hunt regularly, but my situation occurred on state land, in an area I dont normally hunt, so getting permission to recover ahead of time wasnt really an option.

I just dont understand why people feel the need to be such a-holes to everyone else, Im not saying give permission for everyone to hunt your land, or allow people to constantly trespass or tear up your property, but come on. Have a little respect for people that try to show you respect. What the heck is the big deal with letting someone recover their deer if they shoot one and it runs onto your property and dies.

**the last paragraph was not directed at anyone in particular lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

WNY..I don't believe DOC ever said he wouldn't let someone in. He justs want the contact. That is really the only was to assure the person is legit. Is that level of respect too much to ask. I really dont think that is being unreasonable and i concur 100%

[Doewhacker]

Man WNY talk about name calling..lol!

[Fantail]

I didn't think I'd have anything to add to this thread but my two cents so here it goes.

Got into a new lease this year so i tried a different approach with the neighbors. Granted being out in the middle of almost nowhere means they are not always going to be there etc. But wel in advance of anything going on this fall I figgured when I notice them around I'd introduce myself so they would at least feel better about knowing who's 50 acres away.

Long story short one of my neigbors has a well that I now have access to, we have a standing agreement on tracking deer either way. Property on another side is separated by a huge swamp that nobody in their right mind would cross. But I introduced myself anyways. The whole approach gives us all a comfort factor not to mention possible help in any tracking or emergency.

Flip side; another spot SZ where my buddie is at war with one of the neigbors, almost got into a fight over a doe. Now how much cooperation do you think I'd get there? One reason I took my money & resources elsewhere, s*** happens. On state land, met a land owner who's property was next to some wma. I guess he figgured I wanted to hunt on his land but once he realised it wasn't the case we had a decent conversation. His real gripe was people on 4 wheelers & snowmobiles. I was able to recover a deer that dropped on his feild with zero problems.

What's my point? Well, I'm not sure, but I think alot of recovery problems could be avoided if people take the time and inquire, ask, and have permission.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNY..I don't believe DOC ever said he wouldn't let someone in. He justs want the contact. That is really the only was to assure the person is legit. Is that level of respect too much to ask. I really dont think that is being unreasonable and i concur 100%

I wasnt implying that he did, it was just more of a commentary based off of the circustances Scot and I were talking about. Sorry to Doc if it came off that way.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Man WNY talk about name calling..lol!

Ahhhh, yes, but it wasnt directed towards anyone in particular. Generalized name calling is a whole different ball game. 

[Doc]

Doc, I agree that people have a right to keep people from hunting or 4 wheeling or whatever on their land, but to deny recovery of an animal that was clearly shot on adjoining property (not on the line) is just plain being a disrespectful a-hole.

I'm not sure just what you are referring to. I think I already said that anyone who comes to the house requesting permission to retrieve a wounded deer, will get permission and probably the pleasure of my company as he looks for it.

However, don't think that that excuse hasn't been tried by someone caught trespassing. The only problem is that when asked to show me the blood, they don't seem to be able to ..... lol. I think over all these years, I have seen it all.

The reason that I now try to accompany them in their search is a little trick that was tried on me where a guy asked permission to track a wounded deer, and a few hours later when I finally had time to go up the hill I found him all hunkered down in the middle of my property on stand (no blood trail anywhere around).

So yes, on occasion a landowner will seem a bit unreasonable. However, most of the time and perhaps even all of the time, there are some pretty good reasons and some ugly bad experiences behind that attitude.

Doc