Of no-Obama Wouldn't Try To Take Guns AwayCould Someone Please Explain This, Then?

[13BVET]

You're going to bring up the UN Arms treaty again? The one that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with selling guns inside the US? Really?

I really shouldn't even re-post this since obviously you want to believe whatever you want to believe and silly things like facts are to be ignored, but I'll try one last time:

1) Congress has to ratify all treaties. It would need two-thirds of the Sentate to vote to pass it. Good luck there.

2) The content of the treaty hasn't even been finalized. The first draft was written in July, but the treaty was suspended indefinitely when the Obama administration (as well as some other countries) declined to support it.

3) The Arms Trade Treaty has nothing to do with the restricting of legal sale or ownership of guns within the US. The focus of the UN Arms Trade Treaty is to combat illegal international trade of arms through trade regulation. The current draft states that the treaty specifically "reaffirms the sovereign right and responsibility of any State to regulate and control transfers of conventional arms that take place exclusively within its territory".

4) The POTUS can not ban weapons through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. Reid vs Covert establishes the Constitution supersedes international treaties, even those ratified by the Senate.

Please take the time to read points 3 and 4 again, then make a bookmark so that the next time you feel the urge to post something completely incorrect about this treaty, you can reference here and not be so wrong.

Funny-he had no problem granting amnesty to illegal immigrants without approval from Congress (i.e. violated the Constitution), but we're expected to believe he would abide by the Constitution on this? Are you serious? Perhaps he can use his "executive privilege" bs line again!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Exactly...NRA creates paranoia in the minds of their members. They use scare tactics to enrich their coffers.

Come on, stop trying to explain away the facts. The NRA isnt the source the OP pulled the info from Oct 16th from. The words came directly from the horses mouth.

[vincy]

Nothing happens quickly, especially as it relates to such a controversial topic as gun ownership/rights.

Make no mistake, there is an attack on our freedom and gun rights is a battle that is on going, however it will be masked by scare tactics, confusion and miss-information.

Personally (IMO) democrats and republicans are at the end of the day puppets for special interests, elitists and big business.

Its not a matter of if it will happen it’s a matter of when and how.

Edited November 8, 2012 by vincy

[greybeard]

I did not blame the NRA for the statement in the article. I thought that my first paragraph explained that. I didn't doubt that he said it. I was just TRYING to make a point that there were many other things to watch for.

My comments about the NRA are MY observations and thoughts as a result of those observations for my almost 50 years of gun ownership..

I believe that if, as a group (gun owners), we don't listen to both sides we will be blind sided.. I BELIEVE that many people only listen to the side that supports their view, and don't question the validity of their statements, and don't know what the other guy is thinking.... I say.. ALWAYS know who your opponent is, how he thinks , how he fights., and who, and how strong his support is..

I'm not sure how Immigration got into this, but since it is mentioned I'll throw in my 2 cents( I have nothing to do today)...

I am a moderate and listen to both sides of issues that interest me and read what I can.to TRY to understand an issue.. I listen to Right as well as Left news shows...I don't always make the right choices, but they are based on my research, and in some cases memory.

I have followed SOME of the Immigration issues, and I have not heard the one thing that I remembered that was done a number of years ago.

We all remember President Bush Jr, a Republican,. trying to get Immigration reform and that it was stopped by his own party.

What no one seems to remember is Ronald Regan signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which gave amnesty to close to 3 million immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally before a certain date ( I think before 1982, but not sure). I remember it because I was very surprised that he signed it and discussed it at length back then.... So .. What would Ronald Regan do ?.. I think we know...

As I wrote above, I had no thought of writing about Immigration when I logged on ....It's too controversial a topic and don't want to start a big thing about it, but just thought it was worth noting.

Vincy.. I AGREE with you.. That's why I wrote and believe that the attacks on gun rights will come from other directions and we should be aware of them.

[nybuckboy]

Getting back to the OP though, I have seen some of the liberal types on this site say that Obummer isnt trying to take our guns. I say he just hasnt tried yet.

Not worried about the UN arms treaty though, it wont affect us until the Constitution is amended, and I dont see that happening.

I do not think the law abiding gun owners who have guns/handguns used for target and hunting and self protection have anything to worry about. The laws that the gov't may try to implement will be laws to make it more difficult for thugs and criminals to get there hands on them.

I would tend to think that loose laws of the past decades are primarily the reason we have hand guns floating around and being used by criminals. There will never be a perfect system that prevents wacko's from obtaining guns to go on terror killings but if better background checks were necessary to help prevent this than I am all in favor of this.

[virgil]

Greybeard, well said.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I do not think the law abiding gun owners who have guns/handguns used for target and hunting and self protection have anything to worry about. The laws that the gov't may try to implement will be laws to make it more difficult for thugs and criminals to get there hands on them.

I would tend to think that loose laws of the past decades are primarily the reason we have hand guns floating around and being used by criminals. There will never be a perfect system that prevents wacko's from obtaining guns to go on terror killings but if better background checks were necessary to help prevent this than I am all in favor of this.

Dont we already have laws in place that are supposed to prevent criminals from legally attaining guns?

BTW, criminals dont typically follow the law, so in reality, the ONLY people any gun laws really effect are those that abide by it.

[13BVET]

Yea-I'm trying to figure out how better background checks are going to do any good, when criminals don't normally buy them legally to begin with.

[13BVET]

I did not blame the NRA for the statement in the article. I thought that my first paragraph explained that. I didn't doubt that he said it. I was just TRYING to make a point that there were many other things to watch for.

My comments about the NRA are MY observations and thoughts as a result of those observations for my almost 50 years of gun ownership..

I believe that if, as a group (gun owners), we don't listen to both sides we will be blind sided.. I BELIEVE that many people only listen to the side that supports their view, and don't question the validity of their statements, and don't know what the other guy is thinking.... I say.. ALWAYS know who your opponent is, how he thinks , how he fights., and who, and how strong his support is..

I'm not sure how Immigration got into this, but since it is mentioned I'll throw in my 2 cents( I have nothing to do today)...

I am a moderate and listen to both sides of issues that interest me and read what I can.to TRY to understand an issue.. I listen to Right as well as Left news shows...I don't always make the right choices, but they are based on my research, and in some cases memory.

I have followed SOME of the Immigration issues, and I have not heard the one thing that I remembered that was done a number of years ago.

We all remember President Bush Jr, a Republican,. trying to get Immigration reform and that it was stopped by his own party.

What no one seems to remember is Ronald Regan signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which gave amnesty to close to 3 million immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally before a certain date ( I think before 1982, but not sure). I remember it because I was very surprised that he signed it and discussed it at length back then.... So .. What would Ronald Regan do ?.. I think we know...

As I wrote above, I had no thought of writing about Immigration when I logged on ....It's too controversial a topic and don't want to start a big thing about it, but just thought it was worth noting.

Vincy.. I AGREE with you.. That's why I wrote and believe that the attacks on gun rights will come from other directions and we should be aware of them.

The whole point, is that if a president (any president),is willing to violate the Constitution on one issue, then they sure as hell are willing to violate it on others. Simply put, if it fits their own agenda, the Constitution means nothing.

[steve863]

Yea-I'm trying to figure out how better background checks are going to do any good, when criminals don't normally buy them legally to begin with.

Not exactly true. Some of the recent shootings that made headlines like the movie theatre shooter, the Gabby Giffords shooter, and the Virginia Tech shooter ALL bought guns legally. Buying long guns LEGALLY in this country is pretty much as easy as buying candy. One can legally buy a long gun in a private sale without a background check, so honestly what's the difference between legal and illegal? Not a hell of a a lot.

Edited November 8, 2012 by steve863

[13BVET]

Not exactly true. Some of the recent shootings that made headlines like the movie theatre shooter, the Gabby Giffords shooter, and the Virginia Tech shooter ALL bought guns legally. Buying long guns LEGALLY in this country is pretty much as easy as buying candy. One can legally buy a long gun in a private sale without a background check, so honestly what's the difference between legal and illegal? Not a hell of a a lot.

So you're saying that more regulation is the answer? Statistically, crimes with legally purchased firearms are much lower than illegally obtained ones.

[steve863]

So you're saying that more regulation is the answer? Statistically, crimes with legally purchased firearms are much lower than illegally obtained ones.

No. What I am saying is that some of the existing laws are pretty much worthless. There is very little difference to what is legal and what is illegal. Every gun that leaves a manufacturers plant enters the market LEGALLY, which means the first purchaser of it needs to undergo a background check. After that, it's pretty much a free for all who can buy them. That's how they get into the wrong hands. It is WE the legal purchasers who in one way or another put them into their hands. It's not like Ruger, S&W or any of the gun manufacturers are selling them to hoodlums from the back of their manufacturing plants. Something very WRONG with our current system. If we gun owners don't stand up and support some BETTER way of regulating who can and cannot buy guns, we definitely will lose our rights to own them. Nothing is of course is foolproof, but there just has to be a better way out there.

[Doc]

I just have a problem with admitting that the volumes and volumes of gun laws that are on the books are not working, so the answer to that is to add volumes and volumes of equally ineffective laws.

In fact isn't that just another version of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

[13BVET]

Steve863, in all realities, long guns account for a very, very, small percentage of crimes. Handguns account for the overwhelming amount of crimes, even though you can't just sell a handgun to anyone who doesn't have a valid permit. So, just how would these new regulations do any good???

[Sogaard]

Those guns still start out being sold legally, mostly from states that have very loose gun control laws. People buy them down south legally, transport them north, and sell them illegally.

Is that really new information to anyone?

[13BVET]

You cannot just buy a pistol without a permit. It's impossible. Even a private sale requires a permit.

[ants]

No. What I am saying is that some of the existing laws are pretty much worthless. There is very little difference to what is legal and what is illegal. Every gun that leaves a manufacturers plant enters the market LEGALLY, which means the first purchaser of it needs to undergo a background check. After that, it's pretty much a free for all who can buy them. That's how they get into the wrong hands. It is WE the legal purchasers who in one way or another put them into their hands. It's not like Ruger, S&W or any of the gun manufacturers are selling them to hoodlums from the back of their manufacturing plants. Something very WRONG with our current system. If we gun owners don't stand up and support some BETTER way of regulating who can and cannot buy guns, we definitely will lose our rights to own them. Nothing is of course is foolproof, but there just has to be a better way out there.

I have to say I agree. I have seen a ton of guns ,used in crimes, in upstate come in from Ohio, mainly Cleveland. The gang banging, career criminal, welfare leeching pieces of $hit take the road trip, pay a friend with an I.D. and no Felony convictions to buy hand guns and then bring them back to NYS and sell them to other pieces of $hit for a big profit. The favorite seems to be the Hi-point 9mm with 2 mags. $199.99.. Im a big 2nd amendment guy but some states are just nuts. OOPS was that in any way Racist????? Bet it was.

[nybuckboy]

Every gun that leaves a manufacturers plant enters the market LEGALLY, which means the first purchaser of it needs to undergo a background check. After that, it's pretty much a free for all who can buy them. That's how they get into the wrong hands.

Not that I want more red tape or costs but all legal handguns purchased either new or used, need to pass through a dealer to change ownership. If all guns went through this procedure would this help? A paper trail is possibly the only way I could see curtailing guns from getting into the wrong hands.

I had not thought of this but last November I sold a 30.06 to someone and never gave it a thought whether this guy could pass a background check and I also bought last November a 22.250 from a private owner as well. No background checks.

In spite of background checks wacko's are still there because the majority of the time you never know a wacko is a wacko til he goes wacko.

[waterweasle]

something else to chew on

Senator Dianne Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines, and Pistol Grips

November 7th, 2012

The agenda no longer needs to be hidden from public view. With President Obama winning another term and democrats taking control of the Senate, the move to fundamentally change America from within has begun – with a vengeance.

We’re all aware of the restrictive gun laws in the State of California which require low capacity magazines for handguns, fixed magazines for “assault” rifles, and a whole lot of running around just to be granted the right to carry a concealed firearm.

Now, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), who has championed gun control in her state for decades and co-wrote the original assault weapons ban enacted by the federal government in the 1990′s, wishes to bring even more stringent federal mandates to the land of the free.

What is being proposed by Feinstein is the most significant attack on the second amendment in history.

[waterweasle]

You cannot just buy a pistol without a permit. It's impossible. Even a private sale requires a permit.

true..in NY what about the rest of the country?

[13BVET]

Good question, to be honest. I would think that would be the status quo, but I really don't know.

[steve863]

I'm just glad some of us can see the light with this here. Heck, we are all gun owners and want to continue to own them, but the reality is that there are tons of laws on the books, but what is illegal in one state is perfectly legal in another so in truth there are NO current laws that honestly work. We as gun owners should be at the forefront of thinking about and coming up with ways where things could work better. Being bullheaded and paranoid and thinking that ALL laws are bad won't work anymore. As we saw in this election, society is changing fast and won't be going back to how it once was any time soon. If we don't do something to help keep guns out of the hands of undesirables, then someone else will surely come in and take them away from all of us. So it's up to us to decide what we want here.

[verminater71]

you guys are missing the point....if criminalls want guns they will get them

how many guns are stolen every year??? all the laws in the world cannot stop a theif

laws only effect legale gun owners...period

NY's 20 million doller finger print law has never helped put 1 single criminall in jail....but we legal gun owners still have to deal with it

[pawle76]

"Obama will never try and take away our guns" Thats why the very next day after getting re elected they signed the UN small arms treaty. Lovely

[Early]

Background checks are required for ALL firearms sales in NY.