OLD! Very Old .22's.. Help please!!

[BlasterMaster42]

A few years ago, when my grandfather passed away, my older brother and I, having grown up with "Grampa" inherited his gun-collection (minus the handguns. i'll have those as soon as I get my permit ha!). Older guns of course. One is a J.C. Higgins (Sears) 12-ga shotgun. I can't find chokes for that, but that's another post. Another is a Remington Model 4 Takedown. I'm not sure of the year of manufacture, but it's number 350,116 of approx 356,000 produced. The last gun I got, really stumped me. The .22 I had grown-up with, and hunted with the most as a kid, has ABSOLUTELY no engravings on it anywhere. I stripped the gun to check,, nothing!! No serial number, no make, no model, There isn't even a stamp on it to identify it as a .22LR. It's a wooden one piece stock, bolt-action with tube-fed magazine (holds like 17-rds). The trigger, receiver, barrel, everything is all one piece (minus the trigger guard) when taken apart. The only thing holding the barrel, etc, on the stock, is one screw about 6-inches forward of the trigger on the bottom side of the gun. Does anyone have the slightest clue as to what this thing is, or can tell me where to look??? Is it illegal because there is no serial number? (it's not filed or ground or anything like that, it still has the factory blue on it) Possibly a factory that mass produced a lot of "cheap" guns? Please help!!! Can post pics if needed

PS.. Both 22's do shoot great ha! Never fired the shotgun though, i'm not sure what i can shoot out of it with no choke tube.

[hunterman7956]

POST A PIC

[First-light]

We have one of those Sears shotguns. Bolt action and has a clip. The 22 sounds cool. I have a Mossberg 22M from 1950 with the peep site. Think a lot of the 22's back then were made the same way. Picture would help.

Edited November 25, 2012 by First-light

[BlasterMaster42]

POST A PIC

I'll get one up in a few minutes. Left the camera in the truck, it's a little frozen haha!

We have one of those Sears shotguns. Bolt action and has a clip. The 22 sounds cool. I have a Mossberg 22M from 1950 with the peep site. Think a lot of the 22's back then were made the same way. Picture would help.

My shotgun is a pump. It has a switch on it to limit it to one round in the magazine i think.. Pretty neat. Again, i'm not sure what i can safely fire through it without a choke. It's smooth bore, so I'm assuming slugs would be ok? or is there something that screws on the end for those too??

[Early]

A shotgun that old will have a fixed choke...will not accept choke tubes. Easy to determine the choke with a simple choke tool. Do that...and you will know what your shotgun is good for.

[Pygmy]

The choke designation is usually stamped on the left side of the barrel just ahead of the reciever. It may say full, mod, or imp cyl.

Most Sears pump guns were manufactured by High Standard. Nothing fancy, but a good solid, servicable shotgun.

No problem shooting foster style rifled slugs. It would probably be a good idea to avoid shooting steel shot in it. In older guns that were not designed for steel shot, it could cause damage to your barrel, such as bulging or scoring of the bore.

[BlasterMaster42]

The bolt action on top is the gun in question. The scoped-semi on the bottom is a Marlin model 60. They are roughly the same size, give or take an inch. As I said, it has no markings at all.

[BlasterMaster42]

And here is a pic of the muzzle of the J.C. Higgins.. There are no choke designations stamped anywhere on the gun. This contraption on the end of the muzzle reads "J.C. Higgins Power Pac, Sears Roebuck & Co"

Towards the reciever, the only things it says are:

"J.C. Higgins Model 20-12GA" with the SN underneath

and on the other side:

"PROOF TESTED-12GA.

2-3/4" CHAMBER"

[Early]

Wow...Looks like a Cutts Compensator, added after-the-fact....which would, in fact, require tubes to function. My suggestion: Have that ugly mess cut off, and the barrel threaded to accept modern choke tubes...RemChoke might be best.

[Doc]

With the exception of the trigger guard, the rifle looks exactly like my old .22 given to me by my Dad when I was just a teenager. The one big difference is that my gun has a paragraph engraved on the barrel ..... lol. It may be an earlier model of my gun.

The screw holding on the stock is 6-1/2" from the center of the trigger. The tubular magazine has an attachment bracket that is welded on to the lower side of the barrel at approx. 3-3/4" from the end of the magazine. It has a slide safety (back and forth) that has deep grooves formed in the top of it and is on the R.H. side. Mine has a plastic trigger guard but it looks like yours is sheet metal.

So yes, there are a few differences in a couple of the details, but there looks to be many more similarities. Overall, the shape and proportions look identical.

Mine is:

Marlin Firearms Co.

Model 81

New Haven Conn Usa

--22-S-L-LR--

I'm thinking yours is an earlier generation of this make and model. Of course it's just a guess without having the two side by side.

[BlasterMaster42]

With the exception of the trigger guard, the rifle looks exactly like my old .22 given to me by my Dad when I was just a teenager. The one big difference is that my gun has a paragraph engraved on the barrel ..... lol. It may be an earlier model of my gun.

The screw holding on the stock is 6-1/2" from the center of the trigger. The tubular magazine has an attachment bracket that is welded on to the lower side of the barrel at approx. 3-3/4" from the end of the magazine. It has a slide safety (back and forth) that has deep grooves formed in the top of it and is on the R.H. side. Mine has a plastic trigger guard but it looks like yours is sheet metal.

So yes, there are a few differences in a couple of the details, but there looks to be many more similarities. Overall, the shape and proportions look identical.

Mine is:

Marlin Firearms Co.

Model 81

New Haven Conn Usa

--22-S-L-LR--

I'm thinking yours is an earlier generation of this make and model. Of course it's just a guess without having the two side by side.

Thanks for the info!! Your description matches my gun to a "T"! Like you said, with the exception of the trigger guard.. Thanks again! I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[First-light]

Doesn't look like my Mossberg. My gun is bulky/stocky looking. Got to love old guns!

[loworange88]

Could be an old Wards Western Field. They were basically re-labeled Mossbergs sold at Sears. If you have a JC Higgens, might very well be a Sears gun, especially if all the ones in question came from your Grandfather.

[Pygmy]

The muzzle brake may or may not be aftermarket. Many shotguns from the 40s through the 60s were sold with factory installed adjustable choke devices such as Polychokes, Cutts Compensators and others. It might be tough to locate choke tubes for the brake on your Granddad's gun.

You could use it with shot loads. It will throw an open cylinder bore pattern, but that is fine for a lot of upland hunting, such as grouse and rabbit hunting.

It may even throw slugs well..Many cylinder bore barrels do.

[BlasterMaster42]

Could be an old Wards Western Field. They were basically re-labeled Mossbergs sold at Sears. If you have a JC Higgens, might very well be a Sears gun, especially if all the ones in question came from your Grandfather.

Based on some of the info i've found, its most likely a Wards or Higgins. I have almost no question that its a Marlin 81 varient.. My question now: Everything I have found on the 81's has to deal with a serial number or model number of some sort. This gun has absolutely no engravings.. Was there a Marlin 81 variant that was completely naked as far as markings go? if anyone knows this, that could drastically help figure out exactly what gun it is.

The muzzle brake may or may not be aftermarket. Many shotguns from the 40s through the 60s were sold with factory installed adjustable choke devices such as Polychokes, Cutts Compensators and others. It might be tough to locate choke tubes for the brake on your Granddad's gun.

You could use it with shot loads. It will throw an open cylinder bore pattern, but that is fine for a lot of upland hunting, such as grouse and rabbit hunting.

It may even throw slugs well..Many cylinder bore barrels do.

As much as I would like to try and use the Higgins for hunting, I'll probably stick with the 870. If I do find tubes for it, thats a different story. I just like to know what I have really. Not that I wouldn't shoot it, but I don't think I would ever make that my primary. Deer and red-squirrels get the AK-47 treatment, and pretty much anything else gets the .22. I rarely shotgun hunt as it is (not a big turkey hunter, though I see enough of them!) Thanks for the info though. If I ever decide to shoot it, its nice to know what it will fire safely.

Would it be safe to attempt to fire a slug out of it? Or could I be putting myself in a dangerous situation by trying?

[covert]

Personally I'd get my "is it safe to shoot" answers from a qualified gunsmith who actually inspected the gun and not from the interwebs.

[jusputtn]

Old guns with Damascus twist steel barrels are dangerous with modern shells. I have regular steel barrelled shotguns from the 1920's that shoot just fine.

Though most manufacturer's used serial numbers to track inventory, serial numbers weren't required until the 1968 Gun Control Act.

You can mic the end of the barrel, if that thing will screw off, and Google the choke diameters.

[jjb4900]

just saw a set of choke tubes sold on ebay, so they're out there.....had the same gun from my grandfather, not an old gun as far as old goes......if you can get the chokes use it.only problem was it shot way off from point of aim.

[Doc]

I'm thinking a good way to ID the rifle would be to take it to a qualified gunsmith. They may know ways of identifying it a bit more specifically.

If I can ever think of it, I will take some pictures of the parts on my Marlin 81 for comparison.

[Doc]

Here are some pictures of my Marlin model 81 that show more detail than what I was able to describe in words. This might help with determining if your .22 is indeed a Marlin mod81.

Hope this is of some help.

[BlasterMaster42]

Here are some pictures of my Marlin model 81 that show more detail than what I was able to describe in words. This might help with determining if your .22 is indeed a Marlin mod81.

Hope this is of some help.

Doc, thank you!! You seem to have the "Caddy" model with the peep sight, but other than that I'm convinced that it's an 81. The action is identical, even the cutout in the stock for the bolt handle is identical. Like you said, your trigger guard is a bit different, probably due to being newer. I would have to say that this would be a "base-model" gun based on some of the research I did. What stumps me is why anyone would want to make such a reliable gun, and not put their brand on it to take credit for it. I've been shooting this little gun a lot lately. I must say, I'll be using this over the henry. Im getting2.5- 3" dead center groups @ 50 yards, standing, with CCI Mini-mag 36gr hp's.

[papabear]

I have a JC Higgins shot gun that my dad gave me when I stared to hunt

it is a 16 gage bolt action with a external choke [Polly] it is heavy but I do like to bring it out once in a while to hunt with it

papabear

[Doc]

Doc, thank you!! You seem to have the "Caddy" model with the peep sight, but other than that I'm convinced that it's an 81. The action is identical, even the cutout in the stock for the bolt handle is identical. Like you said, your trigger guard is a bit different, probably due to being newer. I would have to say that this would be a "base-model" gun based on some of the research I did. What stumps me is why anyone would want to make such a reliable gun, and not put their brand on it to take credit for it. I've been shooting this little gun a lot lately. I must say, I'll be using this over the henry. Im getting2.5- 3" dead center groups @ 50 yards, standing, with CCI Mini-mag 36gr hp's.

Dad put the peep sight on it just before he gave it to me. It originally just had an open "V"-sight. That gun is deadly accurate.

I guess there must be some story behind the missing stamped data. I'm thinking it may have been because it was marketed under other brand names or stores brand names, and they wanted to keep it clean to have the most versatility in marketing.

[ny hunter]

I had something like that years ago the rifle was given to me  by an old man that lived up the block any way have you checked out any info from Springfield   That would be my guess...  The one I had shot to the left about 2 inches at 50 feet so I chopped it up and trashed it.......Thought it was a Springfield...

[Bigfoot 327]

My mother had a bolt action Winchester .22 that was given to her circa 1935. It was her job as a grade schooler to rid the family farm of woodchucks. Anyway, that gun had plenty of language stamped on it, but no serial number! It was her home defense weapon when she was in her 80's. I think she lost it when her boat sank.