shootings

[Culvercreek hunt club]

that leads to a definition of non-sporting or assault rifles that should only be in the hands of law enforcement personnel. .

Let's try. You don't have to be a gun expert. Heck about anyone here has more on the ball around guns than most of those writing the regulations/Laws.

Can we agree that single shots, bolt actions, lever actions and pump shotguns and rifles should be allowed into citizens hands (given what ever action has to take place like the background checks)

Edited December 19, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[ants]

I don't have particular guns in mind- I'm not a gun expert. So what? What I want is an intelligent discussion (sorry WNY, you'll have to sit this one out) that leads to a definition of non-sporting or assault rifles that should only be in the hands of law enforcement personnel. From there, I'd like to see a plan that involves better accountability for gun owners- maybe some form of a registration system as well as competency requirements prior to purchase. Of course, I am also in favor a banning private undocumented sales.

If this sick sack used a 12 gauge pump shotgun and only managed to kill 10 people, would you want that gun banned?

[virgil]

I answered your question thoroughly. As far as the wise crack, get over it. You're very quick to take cheap shots. So, try not having such a thin skin when one comes your way.

[virgil]

Can we agree that single shots, bolt actions, lever actions and pump shotguns and rifles should be allowed into citizens hands (given what ever action has to take place like the background checks)

Sounds reasonable so far.

[WNYBuckHunter]

No you didnt. Heres what I asked...

No, but can you say they wouldnt be if he didnt have access to those guns?

You still have yet to answer it. "Give me a break" is not an answer.

And Im not crying about your shot, just saying. I called you swamy as a light hearted rib. Certainly alot less of a dig than calling someone unintelligent.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ok...now semi automatics. Do you think the hang ups here are caliber, capacity, looks?

[virgil]

No, but can you say they wouldnt be if he didnt have access to those guns?

Ok, you got me. No, I can't say for sure that they would still be alive. You're right- their bus could have crashed, there could have been a typhoon, an earthquake, an apocolypse, etc. Or, the shooter could have picked a different form of WMD like a bomb, instead of the AR. Great point.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Muchas gracias

The only thing is, an AR isnt a WMD.

[virgil]

Ok...now semi automatics. Do you think the hang ups here are caliber, capacity, looks?

I would say that the 'hangups' would be all of those things depending on whose hangups you're talking about. Personally, I think capacity and caliber should be part of the conversation.

[virgil]

Muchas gracias (I was being sarcastic. Was that not obvious?)

The only thing is, an AR isnt a WMD. (Really? It was on Friday)

[WNYBuckHunter]

Muchas gracias (I was being sarcastic. Was that not obvious?)

The only thing is, an AR isnt a WMD. (Really? It was on Friday)

Even though you were sarcastic about it, the fact remains that the only possible answer to the question on your part is no. That is, unless you have swamy like powers and can forsee coulda shoulda wouldas.

As far as the WMD thing goes, BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ok...now semi automatics. Do you think the hang ups here are caliber, capacity, looks?

I would say that the 'hangups' would be all of those things depending on whose hangups you're talking about. Personally, I think capacity and caliber should be part of the conversation.

OK.

Ruger 10/22 22 LR. and alike ok? I think rim fires get a pass. doesn't matter the stock configuration. All Rim fires max 20 round since some tube feds are around 15?

[virgil]

A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general.

The above is the first line in your own Wiki definition intended to prove that AR's are not WMD. So, I'm not sure what part you're debating now. Is it the 'large number of humans' part? Is 27 not large enough to qualify?

[virgil]

Ruger 10/22 22 LR. and alike ok? I think rim fires get a pass. doesn't matter the stock configuration. All Rim fires max 20 round since some tube feds are around 15?

You're already over my head. That's why I'd leave the lawmaking to experts on both guns and the law. Not just lawmakers and not just gun nuts.

Gotta run. Late for a meeting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general.

The above is the first line in your own Wiki definition intended to prove that AR's are not WMD. So, I'm not sure what part you're debating now. Is it the 'large number of humans' part? Is 27 not large enough to qualify?

Nice cherry picking, why not post the REST of the definition? Oh, well that would be because it goes against your agenda.

[ants]

A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general.

The above is the first line in your own Wiki definition intended to prove that AR's are not WMD. So, I'm not sure what part you're debating now. Is it the 'large number of humans' part? Is 27 not large enough to qualify?

Don't you think that a lot of sporting arms can fit into that definition, depending on how many people are killed with one?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Heres the complete boiled down definition, minus the cherry picking...

A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general. The scope and application of the term has evolved and been disputed, often signifying more politically than technically. Coined in reference to aerial bombing with chemical explosives, it has come to distinguish large-scale weaponry of other technologies, such as chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear. This differentiates the term from more technical ones such as chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons (CBRN).

[G-Man]

Virgil, what if a teacher had pepper spray, mace, a tazer, or stungun.. i can and will say for certain this would of not gone as far as it did. It is not about regulating weapons, fact is he used 2 hand guns in the shooting the " assault rifle" wasn't used. Why not train our teachers or at least principals/vice principals, maintance personal with in the schools in non-lethal or even lethal means. A gun man walks into one room, shots are fired, teacher across hall/ next room removes pepper spray/mace (what ever you want to defend your students with.) When gun man enters next room is sprayed, shot,tazer by next adult. Rest of falculty that heard shot hold down assailant till police/responce team arrives. You can ban large capacity magazines, people will just carry more low capacity ones. Even revolvers have quick loaders or replacement cylinders. Regulating an inanimate object does nothing to control an unstable human mind. Defence thru legal means is the only way. If you can't see that you must live in an occult camp which will one day be wiped out by an unstable individual as well.

[growalot]

We didn't need to ban jumbo jets. My recollection is that what happened after 911 was that security at airports, flight training schools, etc. became much stricter, thus limiting access to jumbo jets to people who were vetted and qualified to fly them.

Please Ohhh...PLEASE tell me I am reading that statement ALL WRONG!

Are you blaming the pilots for 911????

Though you missed the point...get rid of one weapon and a more destructing one WILL take it's place...He had a mission and was hell bent on seeing it through...he could have just as easily ...in fact more so ...strapped himself with home made explosives...walked into a single school room or cafeteria and accomplished the same or worse

[josephmrtn]

the fact remains this guy was on a mission... did ya'll hear about how he destroyed his computer hard drive so the fbi cant read it? he WOULD HAVE found a way to commit this crime even if he couldnt get the guns...

[shawnhu]

So virgil...all those poor 911 souls would be here today had they not had easy access to a jumbo jet?

We should ban jumbo jets?...rocket launchers...or another Tim McVeigh plan wouldn't have ever happened ?

We didn't need to ban jumbo jets. My recollection is that what happened after 911 was that security at airports, flight training schools, etc. became much stricter, thus limiting access to jumbo jets to people who were vetted and qualified to fly them.

So stricter security and training for gun operators, no banning. Got it.

[shawnhu]

Virgil, what if a teacher had pepper spray, mace, a tazer, or stungun.. i can and will say for certain this would of not gone as far as it did. It is not about regulating weapons, fact is he used 2 hand guns in the shooting the " assault rifle" wasn't used. Why not train our teachers or at least principals/vice principals, maintance personal with in the schools in non-lethal or even lethal means. A gun man walks into one room, shots are fired, teacher across hall/ next room removes pepper spray/mace (what ever you want to defend your students with.) When gun man enters next room is sprayed, shot,tazer by next adult. Rest of falculty that heard shot hold down assailant till police/responce team arrives. You can ban large capacity magazines, people will just carry more low capacity ones. Even revolvers have quick loaders or replacement cylinders. Regulating an inanimate object does nothing to control an unstable human mind. Defence thru legal means is the only way. If you can't see that you must live in an occult camp which will one day be wiped out by an unstable individual as well.

I agree. Only people can control another dangerous offender, not laws.

[Geno C]

LAWS exist only to those who follow them... its sad that we would even have to resort to this but i think having faculty in school districts armed is a good idea. Look at texas, they are already getting the ball rolling on that in some counties. I like the way they do things there. instead of sitting here saying do this do this, do that, well maybe? No, they constantly move forward to do what they think is right for the people. The times of leaving your front doors unlocked and thinking your safe everywhere are gone. This world is heading in a different direction now...

[jjb4900]

just out of curiosity, have there ever any of these mass shooting type incidents that were stopped by an armed civilian? I know that one on one crimes and home invasion types have been stopped, just wondering about the other.

[josephmrtn]

the one in the mall in oregon recently had a guy w a ccw but i forget if he shot the shooter or if he just pulled his gun and the shooter took off running...