Let's throw some gas on the fire - MI Report

[WNYBuckHunter]

I've yet to hear a good argument from someone who is not a manufacturer of a crossbow, on why they should be allowed. All I hear is "because I want one, that's why". And for the 3rd time. I'd fully support your right to use one in regular and late season if you wanted.

Your definition of a good argument? Please, you cant even wrap your head around the fact that a crossbow is a bow. Its ok though, in the end your side of this argument will lose. Its only a matter of time.

Oh and Doc, I love how you basically call the NYCC a bunch of bullies, when you belong to an organization of around 2000 members that claims to be the voice for all NY bowhunters, and has made it their life mission to pit hunter vs hunter.

[Doc]

Oh and Doc, I love how you basically call the NYCC a bunch of bullies, when you belong to an organization of around 2000 members that claims to be the voice for all NY bowhunters, and has made it their life mission to pit hunter vs hunter.

Call the NYCC what you want (perhaps the term fits), but it was not the NYB that was pushing and shoving their way into someone else's season. I repeat, it was not the NYB who were the aggressors here. So just who was it that was pitting hunters against hunters? I know how you and other crossbow pushers like to demonize the NYB, but lets at least be honest and keep it straight as to just who it is that had no interest in "just getting along" and who it was that was pitting hunters against hunters.

[Dom]

This topic is going no where.What does it matter if they do allow crossbow's in the early season,cause I/we could be in the same woods hunting small game w/shotguns if it's the noise that worries you then to bad.With that said I have not read any where the reason why you dont want them included after all it is only a single projectile.

[Doc]

Hundreds of man-hours have been spent on this site explaining how it matters. If you really are interested go back and review the past couple of years of posts and replies. Let's not start re-hashing them all over again. The fact is that it is not a matter of whether crossbows are going to shoved into bow season but when.

 

My only concern on this topic is merely keeping the record straight and maintaining an honest portrayal as to who it was that was the initial aggressor in this fight. Because the organization that everyone has been so gleefully trashing will be the very one that they will all be calling on for help in the future when  the next aggressor comes along to claim their chunk of the bowseason.

[Five Seasons]

Your definition of a good argument? Please, you cant even wrap your head around the fact that a crossbow is a bow. Its ok though, in the end your side of this argument will lose. Its only a matter of time.

Oh and Doc, I love how you basically call the NYCC a bunch of bullies, when you belong to an organization of around 2000 members that claims to be the voice for all NY bowhunters, and has made it their life mission to pit hunter vs hunter.

 

I can wrap my head around it. You can't. All I've ever tried to do is get you to understand that it's not black and white. There is gray area. And nothing about what is a bow and what is not is fact. If you can simply admit that there are varying views on the subject and that there are a number of people on each side of the argument then we can stop arguing and accept that there will always be disagreement on if a crossbow should be classified as archery equipment.

 

It's funny how I view NYB as an organization aimed at protecting my rights and you view them as anti-hunter. It all depends on what side of the argument you stand on. You have every right to establish an organization that is opposed an in opposition to the NYB and grow your numbers of that organization to greater numbers then the NYB. We have done nothing wrong or illegal. We are just a group of people fighting for what we believe in. We are no different than the NRA. Do you feel the NRA speaks for all gunowners? There are a few of their opinions I disagree with; so what does that mean? They have anti-gun organizations opposed to their beliefs too. Is one group right and the other wrong? There are pro-life and and pro-choice groups out there. Is one a bully? Is one speaking for all? The answer is no. So please, join the coalition if you feel so strongly about it, or start your own group. In 1991 17 bowhunters did start their own group. Write your politicians, make some phone calls. Hold a protest. There is nothing stopping you or others, and you're just upset that the NYB have been successful in their mission. You're no different then a Yankees or Duke hater. You're a keyboard warrior hating on others success and do nothing about it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Belo

[Dom]

It's called early season.What I meant to say was this thread was going no where not the topic of crossbow's.

[buckarcher79]

I agree with you doc. I am a member of the NYB... and I will continue to be a member.

 

I also feel that some how our bow season is always trying to be deminsihed. The thing that i was getting at is that this subject on crossbows started off wrong from the begining. It should have been approached differently. The crossbow its selve deserves a place in the woods the two groups should have put there heads together to work something out even if it just remains in the gun season or maybe take away a week from the gun and a week from the bow.

 

The bottom line is I am a bow hunter first... My passion of bow hunting runs deep. I am perfectly ok if they never allow crossbows in NY.... But I also respect others that wish to have it. I really think that all hunters have to give a little here. Even gun hunters. Seasons should be established so that everyone can enjoy themselves in the woods. The structure of NY hunting seasons are bad overall. Each weapon is different Gun is gun, Bow is bow.... and weather people like it or not Crossbow is Crossbow.... they should have a time. I'd rather see that than this continuing agruments and an unsatisfied result of one partie on either side.

 

[nyantler]

Call the NYCC what you want (perhaps the term fits), but it was not the NYB that was pushing and shoving their way into someone else's season. I repeat, it was not the NYB who were the aggressors here. So just who was it that was pitting hunters against hunters? I know how you and other crossbow pushers like to demonize the NYB, but lets at least be honest and keep it straight as to just who it is that had no interest in "just getting along" and who it was that was pitting hunters against hunters.

Aggessors? They have been the biggest aggressors.. they lobbyed against crossbows back in the 90's before there was much interest at all here in NY for the crossbow... they even make it part of their mission statement for the organization... NYB has been not getting along with much of the hunting community for sometime now... if they had their way bowhunting would be the only hunting in NY. They have a corrupt inner workings which much of the membership knows nothing about... which is the reason I have not been a member since the late 90's... back when I was fooled into believing they working in the best interest of the NY bowhunter... there is a reason why they only have a membership of 2000 out of 200,000 ny bow hunters.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Call the NYCC what you want (perhaps the term fits), but it was not the NYB that was pushing and shoving their way into someone else's season. I repeat, it was not the NYB who were the aggressors here. So just who was it that was pitting hunters against hunters? I know how you and other crossbow pushers like to demonize the NYB, but lets at least be honest and keep it straight as to just who it is that had no interest in "just getting along" and who it was that was pitting hunters against hunters.

Um, you seem to forget that NYB doesnt even want to allow crossbows at all Doc, but feel free to try and muddy the waters all you want. Facts are facts, and the history is proven. NYB is an elitist organization bent on keeping "their" deer out of the hands of anyone that wants to hunt with a different style of bow. They have stood shoulder to shoulder with the likes of PETA. But they arent a bully? Spare me.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I can wrap my head around it. You can't. All I've ever tried to do is get you to understand that it's not black and white. There is gray area. And nothing about what is a bow and what is not is fact. If you can simply admit that there are varying views on the subject and that there are a number of people on each side of the argument then we can stop arguing and accept that there will always be disagreement on if a crossbow should be classified as archery equipment.

It's funny how I view NYB as an organization aimed at protecting my rights and you view them as anti-hunter. It all depends on what side of the argument you stand on. You have every right to establish an organization that is opposed an in opposition to the NYB and grow your numbers of that organization to greater numbers then the NYB. We have done nothing wrong or illegal. We are just a group of people fighting for what we believe in. We are no different than the NRA. Do you feel the NRA speaks for all gunowners? There are a few of their opinions I disagree with; so what does that mean? They have anti-gun organizations opposed to their beliefs too. Is one group right and the other wrong? There are pro-life and and pro-choice groups out there. Is one a bully? Is one speaking for all? The answer is no. So please, join the coalition if you feel so strongly about it, or start your own group. In 1991 17 bowhunters did start their own group. Write your politicians, make some phone calls. Hold a protest. There is nothing stopping you or others, and you're just upset that the NYB have been successful in their mission. You're no different then a Yankees or Duke hater. You're a keyboard warrior hating on others success and do nothing about it.

Youre a complete moron if you think all I do is sit behind a keyboard and do nothing about contributing to hunting, youth, etc. and that Im just a hater of anything. You should get some toilet paper and wipe your mouth because all that crap you just spewed left quite a mess.

[SplitG2]

What if NY reg's didn't allow scopes to be used with xbows.  Would you  guys put down the compound bow for the xbow?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I wont ever put my compound down until the day comes that I physically cant shoot it any longer. Once crossbows are legal Ill pick one up just for something different sometimes.

[SplitG2]

just curious.  some states don't allow scopes on ML.  Maybe that's the compromise?  I don't care either way.

[fasteddie]

I wont ever put my compound down until the day comes that I physically cant shoot it any longer. Once crossbows are legal Ill pick one up just for something different sometimes.

 

Same here for the compound . I'll be 72 this upcoming season and can still draw my 60 and 70 pound bows and will stick with them until I can no longer shoot them . I have no interest in owning a Crossbow .

And ......... at almost $4 a gallon , i'm not going to throw any gas on the fire !

[SteveB]

I've shot a compound off and on over the years of using a recurve - never really enjoyed it at all like the curve.

Don't own one now and when the day comes I can't shooting a hunting weight recurve, I'll go directly to a crossbow.

I support the use of any bow in the bow season - even one that didn't exist when the bow season started.

[SteveB]

For split - no scope would be about the only compromise acceptable along with limb length, lb, restrictions.

 

[SplitG2]

maybe the way to go?  what do you non xbow guys think?

[Doc]

Um, you seem to forget that NYB doesnt even want to allow crossbows at all Doc, but feel free to try and muddy the waters all you want. Facts are facts, and the history is proven. NYB is an elitist organization bent on keeping "their" deer out of the hands of anyone that wants to hunt with a different style of bow. They have stood shoulder to shoulder with the likes of PETA. But they arent a bully? Spare me.

I wonder how the crossbow activists will welcome giving up part of their season to the early muzzleloading season when that finally gets pushed in. Can I expect you to continue with your "non-elitest" attitude by inviting anyone into the bow season that tries to force themselves in or are you going to join the hypocrits that speak a good game of being unselfish until it affects you. Let's see how you all react when the shoe is on the other foot. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

On one hand you talk about the NYB being a tiny minority in the hunting community (which they are) and then out the other side of your mouth you claim they are bullies. Actually the term bully is a stupid term to be using. If you want to say that this organization was very effective for their size and resources at defending the integrity of bowhunting and bowseason, then I will agree with you. They do seem to function very effectively when their back is against the wall and they are being attacked. I suppose that is what really irks you about them. For such a tiny organization, they sure did keep the antibow forces at bay for a heck of a long time. 

 

Anyway, twist whatever you feel you must about the truth, but the one thing you cannot twist is the fact that the crossbow factions were the aggressors in this issue. They were the ones that decided to insert themselves into bow seasons. No amount of lying or name-calling, or stretching of the truth will hide that fact. Demonize the only NYS bowhunting advocates if that's what floats your boat. Deny all the accomplishments and good works that they do if that makes you feel better, but for crying out loud try to be a little bit honest in whatever personal problems you have with them and recognize that if the crossbow proponents hadn't decided to bulldoze their way into the sport of bowhunting, none of this angst would have ever occurred. So when the Rodney King fans come along and start whining, "Can't we all just get along", understand just who it was that had no interest in "just getting along". No, the NYB didn't fold up when put under attack, and I do thank them for doing their job in the best way possible given their size and resources.

[Five Seasons]

Figured you'd result to childish name calling. Shoot a nice buck with a bow and maybe you'll finally get "it".

[Doc]

maybe the way to go?  what do you non xbow guys think?

Getting rid of the stock would be a good start.

[SteveB]

Get rid of stocks if let off greater than 00.00% goes also.

 

And it was NYB that tried to put in an early MZ season in the southern zone back a bit.

A move blocked by the other 198,000 bowhunters and many of their own 2,000 members who had no

idea of the deal negotiated and agreed to by the handful of those running the organization.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Figured you'd result to childish name calling. Shoot a nice buck with a bow and maybe you'll finally get "it".

 

I would have to ask what you thought a nice buck was and if you ever got a nice one yourself?

 I thought most thought any buck was a nice buck with a bow!  I would like to know if your nice one is the same as my nice one!!!!

[Doc]

Get rid of stocks if let off greater than 00.00% goes also.

 

And it was NYB that tried to put in an early MZ season in the southern zone back a bit.

A move blocked by the other 198,000 bowhunters and many of their own 2,000 members who had no

idea of the deal negotiated and agreed to by the handful of those running the organization.

Yup, that's how it is supposed to work isn't it? If the leadership of an organization that you belong to comes up with something that most of the members disagree with, and if you are a member, you can gather support and shoot it down. Unlike the free-loaders that never join anything but simply sit along the sidelines making a lot of worthless noises. I sent a rather strongly worded message to the president of NYB (apparently along with a whole lot of other members), and yes, that deal was quickly dropped. I would say that the system worked exactly right. It's funny how I and a whole bunch of other members knew about early enough to stop it.

 

However, I do find it a bit hilarious that the NYB is called selfish (oh and that favorite word "elite" that anti-NYB people think is so clever) when they take a hardline against crossbows, but then are called traitors when they try to negotiate a settlement with others that are trying to shove their way into bow season. It sounds like they are kind of stuck in a no-win set of attitudes from those that really couldn't care less and who aren't all that consistant in their criticisms. That really does point out just what the attitudes are against organized bowhunters. I happen to agree that it was an ill-conceived plan that should never have been put forth. And it does show a weakness of listening to all these people who carp about their hard-line approach to protecting bow-hunting. I do believe they learned their lesson about appeasement and compromise. Probably one they won't soon forget.

[nyantler]

If enough hunters feel that crossbows should be let into the archery season, the that's how it should be... it shouldn't be decided by 2000 bowhunters. Although I agree that NYB can be commended for keeping to its stance... if you believe in something that whole heartedly you should defend it... that at least shows a little moxy.

[SteveB]

Joe - it show the handful that run it are more concerned with crossbows than they where putting a gun season in the bow season.

There is no input sought or allowed prior to a ruling of the special few. No way for the members to have any say whatsoever in operation or direction.

In fact any not going with the flow are not welcome. Membership exits for the fees and to man booth's for recruitment. And new members are recruited but total membership never increases. That alone speaks volumes about them.