Baiting Deer

[Bleitten04]

Now I'm new here and I don't want people to think I'm trying to start a big argument cause I'm not.  It's illegal to bait in NY and I'm wondering what everybody thinks on this.  Do you think it should be legal or illegal and why? 

[burmjohn]

You should expand the poll to also include off season only, etc...  Just a suggestion.  I think PA allows the use of some things only off season.

[nyslowhand]

There is not way to control the current regulation of NO BAITING.

How would the DEC ever be able to control it with any relaxed restrictions?

Last thing I want to see is any further incerase of CWD in NY.

Keep it -no baiting!

[Larry]

you can get around the no baiting by planting food plots

[burmjohn]

you can get around the no baiting by planting food plots

That is not "Getting Around", a food plot is not baiting.

[20ftupatree]

NO NO NO NO NO CWD is nothing I want destroying the heard! There are PLENTY of ways to get deer on your property and keep them there that are legal. It's also called "hunting", I don't see much sport other than "killing" when baiting. Just my 2 cents.

[nyslowhand]

Game on! ???

Correct, as defined by the NYDEC food plots are legal.

I've seen photos of your (burmjohn) & others food plots and do consider them to be beneficial to the wildlife.

The problem I have is not with the 1, 2, 3 or larger acre plots, but the 20' x 20' plots in the woods or along a thicket with a treestand above them. Do they fall within the definition of legal food plots - Yes! Are they for the benefit of the wildlife - Absolutely not, they're bait for hunting over!

Am I against food plots? Thinking about putting in one myself. About 3-4 acres of clover in the center of my property.

Clover because it'll benefit deer/wildlife from spring through late summer for 5-7 years. In the center of my property for obvious, selfish reasons. Will I hunt over it - probably not being in the center of property won't need to. How is this different from a 20' x 20'? With my plot, my alterative motives are outweighed by the benefits derived from the wildlife. If I reap any spoils from my labor, that's fine. If not, at least I know I've helped the wildlife.

Now is when all the guys follow-up with if it's legal, you can do it. Pretty sure some will be the ones that have jumped on the "definition" defense bandwagon and have the micro plot in front of every stand. If my opinion isn't in agreement with yours, let me know. Please don't argue the "it's legal" justification, that's a weak & pathetic DEC contrived scapegoat used to overshadow personal agendas.

[Bleitten04]

I agree that a food plot that is 5 acres or less is much more ethical then one that is 20 acres.  It is beneficial to wildlife and there is plenty of food there to go around if you take care of your plot properly.  When I hear 20 acre plot I think of a game farm.  Which might be needed to bring in the deer so that those people can keep a job.  Idk if you guys support game farms or not?  I personally don't have a problem with them in fact I wish to start my own one day.  But for your average hunter who is just trying to get some venison big plots seem a bit selfish to the people around them who might also be trying to do the same thing. 

On the baiting topic I guess I have mixed beliefs.  Thats why I asked the question.  I think it should be allowed with some sort of restrictions and limits on it.  However, I do agree that there would be no way of regulating it.  If you were allowed to bait but had to keep it in some sort of moderation there would be know way of stopping people from putting piles or corn in front of every stand they own. 

Also is it legal to bait during the off season if your bait is gone during the actual hunting season?

[burmjohn]

Yes, its illegal no matter what.

[nyslowhand]

"In New York, it is illegal to feed deer and moose by putting out any material that attracts them to feed."

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7197.html

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have a small plot near my stand. Never shot a deer off of it though. It sits right along with 4 40 year old apple trees, which draw the deer alot more than the food plot. Why do I have the plot? To play around with different seed mixes and light and shade conditions so that when I have the room to put in a large plot, I will hopefully spend less money making mistakes with it. I dont really care what anyone's opinion of my little play plot is, its legal and not effecting you.

Please don't argue the "it's legal" justification, that's a weak & pathetic DEC contrived scapegoat used to overshadow personal agendas.

I beg to differ, its not a DEC contrived scapegoat, its a fact, food plots are legal and there are no limits to their size. If someone wants to hunt over a small plot or put in lots of small plots instead of one or two large ones, its well within their right to do so. Im not going to argue this, just state my opinion as Ive done already.

Back to the original topic though, I dont care either way on baiting. I dont do it and probably wouldnt if it was legal.

[Bleitten04]

Also another interesting fact I know is that it is legal to sell different types of bait in stores.  If the state doesn't want baiting why allow it to be sold?  Just an interesting fact I think.  Its almost as if they are trying to get the normal hunter who follows all guide lines to break the law. 

[nyslowhand]

Yeah, we got into that before.

Someone mentioned a sales person said he was using such-n-such an attractant.

Ended up being a spray on encouraging deer to eat, which in turn fell into the DEC definition of bait.

Not only do the stores stock it, their employees don't realize it's illegal.

[Doewhacker]

Baiting=lazy

[Fantail]

I get a kick out of food plots of 5 acres or more.

It's a Feild!

[Geno C]

i am going  to play devils advocate here... and im not supporting the theories of "baiting". but why is it legal in other states and not legal in NY???

ive thought about this and if given the chance to to QDM, do you think that baiting would not be an essential tool? ive seen way to many hunters shoot deer they think 100 are does and when they get up to it, it has nuts... killing bucks with no chance to grow in a mistake for a doe...

Now, and of coarse im not siring the pot but if you had a small bait pile within reason or maybe even hunted near a feeder. you can do 1 of 2 things

1 draw deer in for a more ethical shot, closer range and hopefully lead to more harvests rather then wounded deer feeding the yotes

2 be more intune with the deer and see closeup that this is a button buck and eliviate the mistakes of shooting button bucks and tend to harvest some mature does.

now im not trying to start anything but give some food for thought...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am not for baiting. It puts deer in to close of a proximity to each other. eatign from common containers and swapping saliva promotes the transmition of disease.

If it did become legal I still would not do it. There are some in the south that utilize this pracitce*(baiting/supplemental feeding) as part of their QDM approach but I find it alarming that they can do this and preach herd health in the next sentence.

To me food plots do provide supplemental feeding and provide a draw of game. But the possibility of fluid transfer is far less in this scenario. On the propert I lease I do not have the ability to put in large food plots. I can not cut down trees so we were left with the only option....which was till and plant the "loading areas" throughout the property that were used during the logging operations. This is the first year they are really established so I don't have a good handle on their drawing ability.....a goood pile of corn or apples sure would work...but again...I don't see it as hunting. I tried it once for bear....took one and left with an empty feeling in the pit of my stomach

[Doc]

.......but the 20' x 20' plots......

Wait a minute ...... I have one of those. I call it my garden. ;D

[Doc]

i am going  to play devils advocate here... and im not supporting the theories of "baiting". but why is it legal in other states and not legal in NY???

The subject of baiting is a state regulated issue that has no requirement to be uniform across the nation.

Each state has to decide for themselves what the appropriate hunting methods should be and each state has that right. needless to say they are not all going to agree, and as a matter of fact, they don't have to.

Our game management people have decided that we have a potential CWD problem along with other potential transmissable diseases. They have decided that feeding and baiting have the potential for aggravating those disease potentials and have passed a law prohibiting those practices. That's good enough for me.

Not only that, but personally those laws don't particularly bother me because I never felt that I really needed that kind of a crutch to be successful. Also, I'm not real big on conditioning the herd to make better targets of themselves. If there's some reason why I can't seem to hunt the deer as I find them, then I guess I have no real desire to try to train them to compensate for my shortcomings*.

*Disclaimer: That last part is just my own little personal spin on hunting that I choose to live by. That's not necessarily a slam against those that have a hunting philosophy different from mine.....lol.

Doc

[bpb]

I see no difference between a pile of corn or a planted food plot. Both are artificial feeding areas.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I do bpb....more $$$ and my back is more sore doing the food plots...lol

[Doc]

I see no difference between a pile of corn or a planted food plot. Both are artificial feeding areas.

I have to admit that the motivation is likely the same for both, isn't it? At least that's how it seems to me. The methods may differ, and the results may differ, but the motivation behind each activity probably is essentially the same. Yes I know the food plots carry the cover story that they are good for the benefit of all other kinds of wildlife, but I seriously question whether very many would put in the money and effort if the plots had no attraction to draw and hold deer for hunting purposes just like baiting.

I know that thought probably is not going to be the most popular with those here that are involved in food plotting, but I wouldn't be very honest if I said it looked any other way to me. I definitely could be wrong, but I have never seen nor read anything yet that would make me think so.

Doc

[Geno C]

I see no difference between a pile of corn or a planted food plot. Both are artificial feeding areas.

I have to admit that the motivation is likely the same for both, isn't it? At least that's how it seems to me. The methods may differ, and the results may differ, but the motivation behind each activity probably is essentially the same. Yes I know the food plots carry the cover story that they are good for the benefit of all other kinds of wildlife, but I seriously question whether very many would put in the money and effort if the plots had no attraction to draw and hold deer for hunting purposes just like baiting.

I know that thought probably is not going to be the most popular with those here that are involved in food plotting, but I wouldn't be very honest if I said it looked any other way to me. I definitely could be wrong, but I have never seen nor read anything yet that would make me think so.

Doc

it is the same... just some wont admit to that. hard work or hard earned money spent or not, same motive / intentions... i can see if they are destination food plots and not being hunted but almost ALL plots are intended to be hunted. And also, in my eyes it still is considered "feeding"...

[Doc]

However, the law does not mention or consider motivation. The law as I understand it is a result of direct mouth to mouth, body waste to mouth contact, health concerns. Here is where I see a huge difference between food plots and baiting/feeding. Bait piles and food piles or troughs all have point location measured in square inches or feet rather than acres or fractions of acres. Food plots do take on the proximity characteristics of natural occurring feeding sources. That's a huge difference when it comes to direct contact disease transmission. So if that is what the law is intended to combat, then I guess it does what is intended, and food plots are logically exempted from those concerns.

Doc

[wztirem]

I see no difference between a pile of corn or a planted food plot. Both are artificial feeding areas.

I have to admit that the motivation is likely the same for both, isn't it? At least that's how it seems to me. The methods may differ, and the results may differ, but the motivation behind each activity probably is essentially the same. Yes I know the food plots carry the cover story that they are good for the benefit of all other kinds of wildlife, but I seriously question whether very many would put in the money and effort if the plots had no attraction to draw and hold deer for hunting purposes just like baiting.

I know that thought probably is not going to be the most popular with those here that are involved in food plotting, but I wouldn't be very honest if I said it looked any other way to me. I definitely could be wrong, but I have never seen nor read anything yet that would make me think so.

Doc

it is the same... just some wont admit to that. hard work or hard earned money spent or not, same motive / intentions... i can see if they are destination food plots and not being hunted but almost ALL plots are intended to be hunted. And also, in my eyes it still is considered "feeding"...

Smeone get a rope please!  LOL