Why dont we have a dove season in NY? The Answer

[mike rossi]

The mourning dove is federally designated as a migratory game bird and hunted in 40 of the lower 48 states, but not in NY. The NY Department of Environmental Conservation cannot set a hunting season until the NY state legislature and the governor change the state’s classification of the mourning dove to be consistent with the federal designation. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 recognizes sport hunting as a legitimate use of a renewable migratory bird resource.

The BIDE rates, population and harvest estimates certainly support harvesting doves:

Current Population Estimate: 308 million doves in the United States

Annual Mortality: 58%

Juvenile Annual Mortality: 69%

Sustainable harvest (which considers replacement–level birth rates; natural mortality; and stochastic factors): 60 to 75 percent

2012 annual harvest:  5.5 percent of population or about 17 Million birds, of which 7 million from the Eastern Management Unit, which includes NY.

 

The 2012 harvest at 5.5% could be 69.5% higher without impacting the population, which would be equivalent to an additional 214 million birds harvested. This is not a suggestion that hunter satisfaction is low among those who hunt doves, as a matter of fact, surveys indicate the opposite is true. It does illustrate the mourning dove’s resilience to harvest and why it makes no sense whatsoever not to implement a dove hunting season in NY. It should also be pointed out that even if hunting occurred in all states, a harvest of 60 to 75 percent is possible only in theory, as hunter numbers, effort, and skill level preclude this, especially under contemporary regulations and the concept of fair chase.

 

A high reproductive rate and short generation time makes this species resistant to stochaticity as well. A significant form of natural mortality is the mouth-dwelling parasite Trichomonas gallinae. Mourning doves will sometimes host this parasite without symptoms, but in other individuals it will often cause yellowish growth in the mouth and esophagus that will eventually starve the host to death.

The manifesto of the Humane Society of the United States that mourning doves provide significant ecological services to the agriculture industry by consuming seeds of nuisance plants is not documented in the scientific literature or otherwise empirically demonstrated. To the contrary; birds are believed to have a role in seed dispersal; therefore it is possible that doves may actually facilitate the spread or abundance of nuisance plants, rather than reduce them. The HSUS, in addition to (unsuccessfully) opposing a dove season in Wisconsin, has made similar campaigns in that state to block the establishment of hunting seasons for woodchucks, sandhill cranes, gray wolves, and most remarkably, mute swans, a deleterious introduced species.

Mourning Doves are one of the most abundant and widespread of all North American birds - ranked eleventh among 251 species in relative abundance throughout a geographic distribution range covering 6.8 million square miles. It is also thee leading game bird, and the third ranked game species overall, after deer and slightly behind turkeys, with an average of 20 million birds harvested and enjoyed as table fare annually in the U.S.

 

[papabear]

I have talk to many about this along with D.E.C. and some from the town official's from Islip

The dove is considered a song bird in the state of new York and there for can not be hunted

I know a number of hunters who tried to have this changed so they could be hunted but it was always turned down

papabear

 

 

[phade]

Dove hunting is one of the best ways to get a kid into hunting. Period.

 

Usually great weather, fun, lots of action, and great for developing shooting skills.

 

I started out dove hunting in VA. Talk about fun!

[mike rossi]

I have talk to many about this along with D.E.C. and some from the town official's from Islip

The dove is considered a song bird in the state of new York and there for can not be hunted

I know a number of hunters who tried to have this changed so they could be hunted but it was always turned down

papabear

Mourning Doves are positively  NOT a songbird. A songbird has a different vocal apparatus in its throat. This argument is not relevant anyway - the crow IS a songbird, we hunt them... It has nothing to do with them being a song bird... It has to do with because they are not designated a game species, the DEC does not have the authority to set a season. It requires the legislature and governor to designate them as a game species, and when that is done, the DEC then has the authority to set a season. Write your elected officials and ask them to allow the DEC to decide if doves should be hunted...  We will eventually get a season, but it might be several years. Take 10 minutes and sign up for face book and follow our page by liking it, there is a lot of good info on it, and it will help you stay engaged with the issue.

[greybeard]

The DEC actually answers that question.on its website.under the heading of Why we don't have a Dove season(might not be the exact title, but it's there)

 

 It includes the fact that 64% of the hunters polled stated that they did not care if there was a dove season...

[mike rossi]

The DEC actually answers that question.on its website.under the heading of Why we don't have a Dove season(might not be the exact title, but it's there)

 

 It includes the fact that 64% of the hunters polled stated that they did not care if there was a dove season...

You are referring to this link: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/59626.html   I don't read 64 % though, it seems that it was the usual with hunter surveys - many didn't bother to return them. I imagine, if you surveyed a sample of the 700,000 NY hunters, about geese, ducks, woodcock, or grouse,  the response wouldn't be too much different in respect to both interest and in bothering to send back the form. This sort of survey lacks vigor and the webpage doesn't even indicate any statistical tools were used to adjust for the lack of vigor.

 

However, over the course of several NY dove bills, the legislators I have spoken to indicated that while they get little contact from hunters supporting a dove season, they get somewhat more from anti-hunters opposed to it. The HSUS generates form letters about NY dove bills which are preaddressed to the correct voting district of each of their members in NY. All the member has to do is press enter and a form letter is directed to the senator and assembly member who represents their voting district. The mantra they have been using in these form letters has not changed over the years, despite being biologically incorrect. For example, the main talking points are that doves reduce nuisance plants; doves are song birds; and that doves have a bitter taste and are not edible.

 

In any event in your communication about doves, I would raise the issue of the questionable  statistical vigor of the survey. We would be interested in working with you, I encourage you to follow our face book page, that's what its for, it takes about 5 minutes to register an account with face book.

Edited June 12, 2013 by mike rossi

[greybeard]

Yeah, that was the site..I didn't read it thoroughly.. It was 64% didn't care, or didn't answer..

 

 

[josephmrtn]

You cant hunt doves?!?!? UH OH im in trouble now!!!

 

 

lol yes i HAVE killed doves in my day...

[Doc]

How many of those things does it take to make a meal? They look awful small to me.

[Lawdwaz]

How many of those things does it take to make a meal? They look awful small to me.

 

Depends.

 

For me alone, 4-5.  My wife will only eat a couple.  Kids, also just a couple apiece.

 

They really are delicious!  Easy to clean, then a marinade & BBQ.

 

Just don't leave the birds in your game vest with the dogs in the back of the truck for the ride back to the motel.........bad things WILL happen.  Trust me.......................................

 

IIRC, two labs devoured 8-10 fully feathered ungutted little speed devils.  We hit the motel parking lot after just a 20 minute drive and opened the back of the truck.  What we found was chaos, feathers everywhere!  The only thing left was a couple legs and a wing that were to be consumed NEXT.

 

Somewhere I have a couple pics of the dogs, covered in feathers.  The following days bowel movements were quite a sight..........(the dogs, not mine)

[Lawdwaz]

I've posted these before so I apologize for that but they sure do bring back fond memories.....

 

 

 

 

It'd sure be nice to hunt doves here in NYS!!

[mike rossi]

How many of those things does it take to make a meal? They look awful small to me.

Doc, there are many (hundreds) of different recipes and each one calls for a different number of doves. Some of our favorite recipes call for one or two doves for me and my wife. Dove meat is one of the best tasting meats there is, whether compared to other wild game or domestic meats. Ironically, one NY senator's aide I spoke to a few months ago was convinced they were non edible, a stock argument of anti-hunters. The antis have been telling legislators in 8 states for twenty some years that doves are too small to eat and taste terrible, even trying to sound scientific by stating  that dove hunting occurs during migration when doves are at their lowest body weight. That is a patent lie, the opposite is true, at migration, all species of birds are at their greatest weight. We eat shrimp and scallops and nobody ever says they are too small to eat....

[Doc]

I've posted these before so I apologize for that but they sure do bring back fond memories.....

 

It'd sure be nice to hunt doves here in NYS!!

Are those doves or pigeons. The doves that I was thinking about are mourning doves and they are brown and considerably smaller (more slender) than pidgeons.

 

As a kid I used to hunt pigeons up in the hay loft of the barn with my home made bow and arrows. I used to get quite a few and ate them all. But as far as I know, pigeons have always been legal to hunt.

[shawnhu]

Morning doves have quite the meat. When taken by air guns, you risk very little waste and can often get 6-8 in a short amount of time.

[BizCT]

I prefer seagull over doves.

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[shawnhu]

Don't know if gulls are legal to harvest, but they taste horrible. That's a fact!

[BizCT]

Haha.

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[Lawdwaz]

Doc, in the top picture the birds in the foreground are pigeons but all the others are dove. The farmer always encouraged us to shoot all the pigeons we could but they are a very wary bird, after the first one hits the dirt.

They are edible but far from my first choice for table fare.

Most years the limit in PA for dove has been 15 but is/was 12 some years. It is a very good day when you kill your limit. I've done it but most days I'm more than satisfied with 6-8 birds in the bucket at sunset.

[Lawdwaz]

The daily limit on watermelons is one.................

[CuseHunter]

Oh boy this brings back the memories of the daisy BB gun at my grandparents. Laying prone away from the bird feeder and once shot a dove and my grandma lectured me saying that her mate will forever be alone and die of sadness. Broke my little 5 year old heart. Will always remember that walk of shame.

[CuseHunter]

Started hunting with baiting illegal species, what a good way to learn ;p

[mike rossi]

If you get caught poaching a migratory bird, you get hit with a dual violation - federal and state charges, FYI.

 

As far as doves mating for life, that may be true, but they rarely live more than a year, whether they are shot by hunters or not.

[CuseHunter]

Thanks for the info, but I was just saying a little story from when I was like 5. Havn't hunted even small game since then.

 

[mike rossi]

Thanks for the info, but I was just saying a little story from when I was like 5. Havn't hunted even small game since then.

I appreciate that story! It is a pretty good illustration of how certain facts or ideas can have very powerful influences on public opinion. Case in point, you still remember the story and it effects you even though you hunt big game it had a mental impact on your attitude toward small game hunting or at least killing doves. Just think how it would effect the average vegan neophyte....

 

In my post here, I mention BIDE rates, including an annual mortality of over half the population of doves. That tells a story too. It says that more than half of all  doves do not live more than one year and those that do almost surely loose their mate. So, you can rest easy, the odds strongly favor that you did not change the life course of the mate of the dove you killed years ago...

 

I used to hunt big game and gave it up along with fishing for the most part. I fish only for big game and release anything other than wall hanging billfish, marlin, and sharks.

[CuseHunter]

Yeah, it definitely stayed with me, as dumb as it sounds. Don't like to hunt birds anymore. I wouldn't mind going squirrel hunting a try sometime though. I just love being in the woods any chance I get usually preparing for the deer season. It's sad that I spend the most money and time in the off season as I do in season