Crossbow Update A283

[jjb4900]

Then I miss under stood...probably due to the specific conversations to them being allowed in bow season vs allowed in gun...Also due to the reference of NYB having Sweeney's ear.

 

What has been tried a few times  has not worked.....trying a different strategy IMO seems to be the only logical course of action...Have the NYB ppl ever said no CB in small game? Do you think given a opportunity to be looked at as a compromiser, Sweeney would block such a bill?

At this point just getting ones foot in the door should take priority...Having them listed as a legal implement in NYS small game puts them on the list of legal implements...just limited for now...That would be the opening needed.....

I was just saying that having an advocate speak up to have crossbows legalized for the physically challenged hunter would be a good way to get a foot in the door to have them legalized for big game......if there was a big enough voice for this, they might get someone's ear as opposed to having able bodied hunter's pushing for it at this point.

[jjb4900]

maybe the argument that crossbows are of no advantage over a compound bow is what's killing this issue...if it's of no advantage then why bother allowing it?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Then I miss under stood...probably due to the specific conversations to them being allowed in bow season vs allowed in gun...Also due to the reference of NYB having Sweeney's ear.

 

What has been tried a few times  has not worked.....trying a different strategy IMO seems to be the only logical course of action...Have the NYB ppl ever said no CB in small game? Do you think given a opportunity to be looked at as a compromiser, Sweeney would block such a bill?

At this point just getting ones foot in the door should take priority...Having them listed as a legal implement in NYS small game puts them on the list of legal implements...just limited for now...That would be the opening needed.....

 

NYB wants no crossbows in NY what so ever. The only "compromise" Sweeny acted to make would have kept crossbows in regular gun season ONLY, and taken away the early youth deer season. The governor vetoed it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

maybe the argument that crossbows are of no advantage over a compound bow is what's killing this issue...if it's of no advantage then why bother allowing it?

 

I dont recall ever hearing anyone say there is NO advantage to them. Thats just typical NYB misinformation that they spread to try and push their agenda.

[growalot]

The only "compromise" Sweeny acted to make would have kept crossbows in regular gun season ONLY, and taken away the early youth deer season. The governor vetoed it.

 

Do we not see ...

1.) Sweeneys decision was based on CB in regular DEER gun season...nothing to do with small game

 

2.) That was a past "compromise for a DEER season ...NYB to my knowledge has never mentioned  a refusal for cross bows other than in archery...not a ban in the state....but I may be wrong ...could you show me that in print?

 

Why nit pick at this point as to how they are, at least partially, legalized....both sides want to cut off noses to spite their face

[jjb4900]

I dont recall ever hearing anyone say there is NO advantage to them. Thats just typical NYB misinformation that they spread to try and push their agenda.

I was under the impression that the crossbow advocates are saying that crossbows are a primitive weapon and offer no advantage over a compound.......I didn't get that from NYB, in fact they say there is a HUGE advantage, that's why they don't want them..........did I miss something?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Do we not see ...

1.) Sweeneys decision was based on CB in regular DEER gun season...nothing to do with small game

 

2.) That was a past "compromise for a DEER season ...NYB to my knowledge has never mentioned  a refusal for cross bows other than in archery...not a ban in the state....but I may be wrong ...could you show me that in print?

 

Why nit pick at this point as to how they are, at least partially, legalized....both sides want to cut off noses to spite their face

 

Grow, if they are not legal hunting implements in NY, then they cant possibly be put into a small game season.

 

All one would have to do to see NYB's true objective is look at their previous (before it was allowed for the 2 years) position on the issue. I dont have anything saved, but you may be able to research it through this site. Just look for crossbow threads from before they were allowed. NYB has since changed their rhetoric to just keep them out of archery season.

 

Heres an article to read.

 

http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/2013/07/crossbow_legislation_update_th.html

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

I was under the impression that the crossbow advocates are saying that crossbows are a primitive weapon and offer no advantage over a compound.......I didn't get that from NYB, in fact they say there is a HUGE advantage, that's why they don't want them..........did I miss something?

 

Apparently you did. Go back and read every crossbow debate on here and other places. Im sure youll actually find people saying that compounds offer some advantages over crossbows and crossbows offer some advantages over compounds.

 

Basically, the argument (from MOST people I have heard) is that crossbows are merely another form of archery equipment, and they have similar effective ranges as the compounds that are currently legal to use.

[jjb4900]

Apparently you did. Go back and read every crossbow debate on here and other places. Im sure youll actually find people saying that compounds offer some advantages over crossbows and crossbows offer some advantages over compounds.

I will go back and look, not really looking for what people say, that would make my head spin.............I'll go look for how the bills were presented

[growalot]

Grow, if they are not legal hunting implements in NY, then they cant possibly be put into a small game season.

 

Please go to that passage of yours and substitute..... into a small game season for a deer season....They obviously were legal for two deer gun seasons...whether as a trial or not

Thus making it possible didn't it?

Once again living in the past...If the NYB ppl changed their position to never in the state to just never in bow ...I personally see that as a "blister" in their stance...pass a bill to make them legal in small game and later they may produce a crack and say OK for impaired hunters...Hell look at me I was adamantly against them ...until I shouldered one...Then willing to Compromise in my position....

 

Truth be told in full...It's become nothing more than a giant ..excuse the expression...pissing match which makes both sides look fool hearty...IMO

[WNYBuckHunter]

Please go to that passage of yours and substitute..... into a small game season for a deer season....They obviously were legal for two deer gun seasons...whether as a trial or not

Thus making it possible didn't it?

Once again living in the past...If the NYB ppl changed their position to never in the state to just never in bow ...I personally see that as a "blister" in their stance...pass a bill to make them legal in small game and later they may produce a crack and say OK for impaired hunters...Hell look at me I was adamantly against them ...until I shouldered one...Then willing to Compromise in my position....

 

Truth be told in full...It's become nothing more than a giant ..excuse the expression...pissing match which makes both sides look fool hearty...IMO

 

They were made into a legal hunting implement for 2 seasons, and allowed into deer season. They are no longer a legal hunting implement.

 

BTW, how is it that your opinion is "Truth be told in full" and another's is "fool hearty"?

 

ehhhh, forget it. Id rather think about food plots at this point lol.

[growalot]

They were made into a legal hunting implement for 2 seasons, and allowed into deer season. They are no longer a legal hunting implement.

 

Your stating something obvious and what I was pointing out to your argument in the first place

 

BTW, how is it that your opinion is "Truth be told in full" and another's is "fool hearty"?

 

Now instead of addressing my original premise your  your getting sarcastic...

my exact words were...

 

Truth be told in full...It's become nothing more than a giant ..excuse the expression...pissing match which makes both sides look fool hearty...IMO

 

My opinion is based on the endless pages...threads and just reworded thread in argument... The rehashing of the same old thing.... instead of a movement forward ...Based on the non stop blaming and whining of...try to remember I said this...BOTH SIDES.

 

Show me some efforts where in the future one side isn't now just trying to "sick It to the other side"  my OPINION will change...but from this exchange which is laughable at best for we both would like to see them legal...I see no hope

[WNYBuckHunter]

Show me some efforts where in the future one side isn't now just trying to "sick It to the other side"  my OPINION will change...but from this exchange which is laughable at best for we both would like to see them legal...I see no hope

 

The pro-crossbow side isnt trying to stick it to anyone. Its trying to allow choice for everyone.

 

As far as this exchange goes, I just cant understand why you think the antis would want to allow it to become a legal hunting implement without specifically excluding it from any archery season. In other words, they know what the DEC's intentions are, and are trying their damnedest to block the DEC from doing it. They dont seem to care what stands in their way.

[growalot]

Well IMO...point proven

[WNYBuckHunter]

Foodplots.....

[Five Seasons]

Truth be told in full...It's become nothing more than a giant ..excuse the expression...pissing match which makes both sides look fool hearty...IMO

 

so true... so true...

 

It's hard for anyone to change even if it's for the better, and those who refuse to change because they believe it's not for the better are often called names for it.

 

In a recent survey by the national wildlife association, 75% of bowhunters claim to have gotten into the sport because of the challenge. Archery has never really been about putting food on the table, but more about the challenge of outsmarting an amazing animal by concealing your scent and movement. In the same study, it was shown that the average bow kill is 15 yards. Why would we want to bring in an implement with a scope that increases range and that is already "loaded" therefore reducing movement and overall challenge? Bowhunting numbers have been rising every year, thus proving the sport is not in jeopardy and that hunters do indeed enjoy the challenge. The whole crossbow movement is tainted by the fact that almost every major bow manufacturer now offers a crossbow for sale. think of the dollars behind that push...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Then if 75% of the bowhunters want the added challenge, what would change for them? THey aren't being mandated to use a crossbow.

[Five Seasons]

changes the dynamics of the season. you and anyone else can't argue that. "oh go buy some private land" blah blah blah. That argument is so hypocritical. "you're worried about me stealing your deer" no i'm not. you can bowhunt right now if you wanted. It adds a different kind of hunter to a season that is growing in popularity. Why mess with success?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

What "kind of hunter" is that? Funny, I haven't sen the big implosion of bow season in the states that allow them.

[josephmrtn]

so true... so true...

 

It's hard for anyone to change even if it's for the better, and those who refuse to change because they believe it's not for the better are often called names for it.

 

In a recent survey by the national wildlife association, 75% of bowhunters claim to have gotten into the sport because of the challenge. Archery has never really been about putting food on the table, but more about the challenge of outsmarting an amazing animal by concealing your scent and movement. In the same study, it was shown that the average bow kill is 15 yards. Why would we want to bring in an implement with a scope that increases range and that is already "loaded" therefore reducing movement and overall challenge? Bowhunting numbers have been rising every year, thus proving the sport is not in jeopardy and that hunters do indeed enjoy the challenge. The whole crossbow movement is tainted by the fact that almost every major bow manufacturer now offers a crossbow for sale. think of the dollars behind that push...

I call BS... it does not extend your effective range only the ease of shooting that far... there are ppl who kill deer/elk at 50 or 60 yrds w a bow... I know some of them

 

Then if 75% of the bowhunters want the added challenge, what would change for them? THey aren't being mandated to use a crossbow.

+1

 

What "kind of hunter" is that? Funny, I haven't sen the big implosion of bow season in the states that allow them.

me either...

[jjb4900]

I call BS... it does not extend your effective range only the ease of shooting that far... there are ppl who kill deer/elk at 50 or 60 yrds w a bow... I know some of them................so you agree it makes things easier? kind of a silly statement if you ask me.

Edited July 8, 2013 by jjb4900

[WNYBuckHunter]

The ONLY people that will see any advantage to a crossbow as far as range is concerned, are newbies and  shooters that have a problem drawing a vertical bow. A proficient compound shooter has the capacity to outshoot a crossbow in the accuracy department and shoot at the same ranges. Accuracy comparison is well documented in the competition realm, and the ability to effectively kill game at the same ranges is documented in hunting accounts, and on video.

 

The bottom line is, you still have to get within a similar effective range with either weapon and make the shot to be successful. If you really think typical gun season tactics are going to work any better with a crossbow than they would with a compound, youre delusional.

[Doc]

The ONLY people that will see any advantage to a crossbow as far as range is concerned, are newbies and  shooters that have a problem drawing a vertical bow. A proficient compound shooter has the capacity to outshoot a crossbow in the accuracy department and shoot at the same ranges. Accuracy comparison is well documented in the competition realm, and the ability to effectively kill game at the same ranges is documented in hunting accounts, and on video.

 

The bottom line is, you still have to get within a similar effective range with either weapon and make the shot to be successful. If you really think typical gun season tactics are going to work any better with a crossbow than they would with a compound, youre delusional.

Yeah, and drop down those bi-pod legs and settle into your prone position and settle those crosshairs on that scope on exactly the hair that you want to hit and wait as long as it takes for Mr. Deer to get into exactly the right range and position. Your only risk of exposure through movement is the squeeze of the trigger. What is clear is that when it comes to accuracy, the target range with the rules and regulations and equipment restrictions is not an apples-to-apples comparison to the hunting realm is it?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yeah, and drop down those bi-pod legs and settle into your prone position and settle those crosshairs on that scope on exactly the hair that you want to hit and wait as long as it takes for Mr. Deer to get into exactly the right range and position. Your only risk of exposure through movement is the squeeze of the trigger. What is clear is that when it comes to accuracy, the target range with the rules and regulations and equipment restrictions is not an apples-to-apples comparison to the hunting realm is it?

 

You gonna drop into a prone position in a treestand, or shoot through brush like that? Laying there in the open within bow range typically doesnt fly. But hey, knock yourself out trying lol.

 

Right after you are done, scoop up the quad rail stabilizer for your compound, pop on your bipod or other bow stabilization tool and whack that deer with no movement of the pin in your magnified scope with your lazer range finder hanging off of the riser to tell you exactly what pin to use.

 

LOL, more extremes.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Fo those of you with your panties in a bunch over it being "easier" for anyone that CHOSE to pick up a crossbow and hunt with it and soooo worried that it will mean the collapse of all out bowhunting tradition....what other things are you using that those that came before you didn't have (Not you Doc, We know you were there when the first bow was strung...Just kidding). How about those tree stands? harnesses? plastic vanes? replaceable balde broad heads? Carbon or aluminum arrows? drop away rests? Camo clothing? Gortex boots? So how far is too far when it comes to make hunting "easier" ? Obviously just as far as you have taken advantage of and deemed the correct amount. Huh.