Deer regs decisions coming

[SteveB]

As reported by NYS Outdoor News.

 

To me, the following (from the article) sums up all that is wrong with the proposal:

 

“A single decision across the state would be difficult,” Swift said, noting the varying degrees of support for antler restrictions across the state.

 

DEC officials have consistently stated that the yearling buck protection/antler restriction is more of a social issue among the hunting community than a deer management issue.

 

 

[SteveB]

Anyone read it?

[jjb4900]

yes, hopefully they'll do a much better job of polling hunters as to what they want, and maybe the hunter's who didn't speak up for whatever reason, and were surprised by the AR's being imposed, will wake up and say something..............

[SteveB]

Instead of a Cornell poll based on a random small sampling (and we all know polls never are skewed),

Why not have it be a mandatory questionnaire for all hunters getting their tags.

No more made up claims of support/non support from biased sources.

[bkln]

C'mon Steve, that would be too logical, this is the State agency we are talking about here.... :-)

[Merlot]

Instead of a Cornell poll based on a random small sampling (and we all know polls never are skewed),

Why not have it be a mandatory questionnaire for all hunters getting their tags.

No more made up claims of support/non support from biased sources.

Seems simple enough to get hunters buying licenses to fill out a questionnaire...I like the idea so as to get a more accurate read on what hunters want. If implemented, Have DEC try to break down the questionnaire into regions, drawing up sections into something like "western southern tier, "Niagara region", "Genesee region", "St Lawrence region",etc., instead of one size fits all arrangement.

[covert]

Seems simple enough to get hunters buying licenses to fill out a questionnaire...I like the idea so as to get a more accurate read on what hunters want. If implemented, Have DEC try to break down the questionnaire into regions, drawing up sections into something like "western southern tier, "Niagara region", "Genesee region", "St Lawrence region",etc., instead of one size fits all arrangement.

Ought to be simple enough to get people to call in their deer too but even that is too difficult for some.

Edited October 5, 2013 by covert

[SteveB]

Compliance would be 100% if you didn't get a new licence without reporting outcome of all past ones.

[Merlot]

Ought to be simple enough to get people to call in their deer too but even that is too difficult for some.

you bet.

[Terry]

C'mon Steve, that would be too logical, this is the State agency we are talking about here.... :-)

Bingo!

[SteveB]

So no thoughts on the DEC proposals?

A chance to be proactive rather than reactive.

 

Edited October 6, 2013 by SteveB

[Water Rat]

One proposal was mandatory antler restriction for the entire deer season . If this proposal is denied , than I would favor their other proposal of shortening the firearms deer season by one week in the southern zone and two weeks in the northern zone . I'm in favor of letting yearling bucks grow , but to each their own .

[Top ramen]

I understand that more hunters want bigger deer, huge racks, and older bucks harvested. Well, this is NY, not an agricultural state but a forested state. You might have gotten bigger bucks if the state supported farmers and had better tax incentives for land that remains farmed. The problem is not the killing if yearlings but rather the expectation of monster bucks in a landscape filled with forest and less fields.

You want bigger deer, the killing of a minority of little deer is nothing when we don't allow our farmers to prosper and for the land to bare it's fruits

[Top ramen]

Bow hunters are often our worst issue when it comes to hunting access.

[Top ramen]

Give me two months to shoot a deer with any implement and I'll hold out for a big one. Give me a couple of weeks which include three weekends and I'll blast whatever comes along (I won't have to wait 4-6 hours to recover or let an animal slowly bleed to death either).

[TeeBugg]

Give me two months to shoot a deer with any implement and I'll hold out for a big one. Give me a couple of weeks which include three weekends and I'll blast whatever comes along (I won't have to wait 4-6 hours to recover or let an animal slowly bleed to death either).

4-6 hours? Not with a good shot!

Sent from Outer Space

[Arrow Flinger]

Here we go

[sampotter]

I understand that more hunters want bigger deer, huge racks, and older bucks harvested. Well, this is NY, not an agricultural state but a forested state. You might have gotten bigger bucks if the state supported farmers and had better tax incentives for land that remains farmed. The problem is not the killing if yearlings but rather the expectation of monster bucks in a landscape filled with forest and less fields.

You want bigger deer, the killing of a minority of little deer is nothing when we don't allow our farmers to prosper and for the land to bare it's fruits

I'm not sure we live in the same NY?

[WesternNY]

I always have to laugh at everyone who discounts New York state.   I guess it is easier to say we live in state that has no potential for decent bucks.  Will we grow bucks the caliber that Ohio, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, etc can in the volume they can..... NO.   Likely we will have much smaller, likely 20 inches and a lower number of B&C bucks.   But the state can and does already grow very nice bucks.

 

Some facts to think about.     A 1.5 year old buck still has his milk teeth, he is the equivalent of a 13 year old boy in terms of physical maturity.

 

a 1.5 year old buck has around 10 percent of a whitetail buck's potential antler development.

 

At 2.5 years old a whitetail buck has still only grown around 25-35 percent of his potential antler mass. 

 

 

While I am not in favor of Statewide AR's, I am all in favor of Voluntary passing 1.5 year old bucks.

 

My reasons for preferring a 2.5 or older vs a 1.5 are:  They are harder to hunt, and I like a better racked buck than what a 1.5 year old can biologically produce.

 

What buck would most hunters rather harvest.... here?  They can't get bigger if taken at one and half.

 

This picture show the number of bucks entered as B&C bucks.... as you can see the whole state varies.  the soils are much better in WNY and more and more people are voluntarily passing on 1.5 year olds out here.  But it proves the old adage that NY while never produce good racked bucks.

 

The soil difference in NY state is the same reason why big buck states are able to produce better bucks...  but NY has great hunting and great potential.  The biggest factor is Age,  that half inch decision with the trigger is key.

 

Another good resource is the NY Big Buck Club.... it shows a good number of super bucks all taken from Poor Little NY

http://www.nysbigbuckclub.com/

 

Here is a WNY Buck that was a Spike at 1.5, this pic is of him at 3.5 and yes he is a wild free range buck.  He has a white nose that has made him easy to ID.  This is from a friends property!

 

NY is making progress.,... last year 2.5 year old bucks made up 44% of the buck harvest.   In 2000 it was only 33%, still over 110,000 plus 1.5 year old bucks were taken in 2012 just over 52% of the buck harvest.   Imagine if those 110,000 plus bucks had a chance to see 2.5.

 

I don't like mandatory because I feel we are over legislated.  Also when you look at the NY B&C map, obviously the state differs.  Some guys cant get a doe permit....  statewide is not a good idea.  Individual area management, hunter education and support Is key.

 

Also I feel, very young and old hunters should be able to harvest anything... and on my property they get a green light.  The rest of the hunters are on a 8 point min.    This brings up an issue.... AR's are an easy rule, but is flawed.  In WNY most of our 1.5 year olds already have 3 pt a side... so it will not save them.   Hunting by age is key, but difficult for people who are not vested in learning to age.  Anyone can learn between 1.5 and 2.5 but it takes time and effort.

 

Happy Hunting.

 

 

 

[Water Rat]

Nice post WesternNy

[Water Rat]

I understand that more hunters want bigger deer, huge racks, and older bucks harvested. Well, this is NY, not an agricultural state but a forested state. You might have gotten bigger bucks if the state supported farmers and had better tax incentives for land that remains farmed. The problem is not the killing if yearlings but rather the expectation of monster bucks in a landscape filled with forest and less fields.

You want bigger deer, the killing of a minority of little deer is nothing when we don't allow our farmers to prosper and for the land to bare it's fruits

 

You don't necessarily need agricultural fields to have large antlered deer.

Check out Westchester County , N.Y.

 

[SteveB]

Some facts to think about.     A 1.5 year old buck still has his milk teeth, he is the equivalent of a 13 year old boy in terms of physical maturity.

 

Actually a 1.5 is = to an 8 year old boy.

A 2.5 is = to the 13 year old.

http://easycalculation.com/other/fun/Deer-years-to-Human-years.html

 

While I am not in favor of Statewide AR's, I am all in favor of Voluntary passing 1.5 year old bucks.

 

 

You are not alone. More are seeing the value in education and lead by example.

 

[2012_taco]

I read the article and I can't help but wonder;  if the DEC is thinking of shortening the southern zone by 1 week, and the Northern zone by  2 weeks, is it truly  a management decision or are they just trying to make some room for a crossbow season? As for antler restrictions it seems to me and the reports seem to indicate that voluntary AR are already working to some extent. I believe in self imposed AR, if you can only hunt a few days a year then by all means fill the freezer. But if you can hunt almost the entire season then why not be picky?

[bowslinger]

as i said before i pay for my tags it should be up too me too shot what i want im not i trophy hunter i like hunting for the extra meat thats why i take does i think ever one should be able too pick what they want too shoot

[Top ramen]

as i said before i pay for my tags it should be up too me too shot what i want im not i trophy hunter i like hunting for the extra meat thats why i take does i think ever one should be able too pick what they want too shoot

Agreed. I impose my own antler restrictions, as do most others. Your standards of a trophy may differ greatly from someone who is feeding several at home or a hunter that has two days off to spend outdoors.

My previous 4-6 hours comment is based upon recommendations from 'hunting experts' and hunting celebrities.