Reminder: Youth Season, Oct. 12 - 14th

[orion]

Belo,

 

i have hunted about 30 or so gun seasons along with the archery season so I have a general idea of what happens.

 

Now HONESTLY  do you really think the youth weekend hunt effects the deer the same as the first week of regular gun season?

[Five Seasons]

hard to tell. it's only the second time the state has had it. And the first was a very rainy, crumby weekend around my area. I don't believe anyone can call it a success or hinderens until it's been around for a while. Still what bothers me the most is the DEC claiming it a success on the cover of their rules/regs book. I still would like to know what their goals were, what their target was. It's easy for them to claim something they come up with a success. But what were the measurable?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Lets see, last year the youth hunt happened, noone was injured or killed because of it, 1,411 deer taken, 61% of the eligible kids in the state participated, and not one game law violation was cited. Many of the kids took their first deer. All this despite less than perfect weather. Yeah, Id say it was a success.

 

This years youth hunting weekend is drawing to a close, and I havent heard of any injuries or deaths this year either. I have seen many reports of, and pictures of successful youth hunters from across the state. I am looking forward to seeing this years stats, as we had generally, better weather this year.

 

I just dont understand the naysayers, the proof is in the pudding.

[Five Seasons]

i stick to my guns that 95% of those youth would still hunt opening day. The point of youth is to increase hunter numbers right? How does it do that while also not setting up false expectations?

[HOUNDS77]

My fiance's little bro took a good sized doe out of Allegheny yesterday . I dont think anybody belongs in the woods with a gun until they have completed at least 2 years of archery first , young or old .

WHY? I do not bow hunt nor do I want to bow hunt. I do not have anything against it, I just do not want to do it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

i stick to my guns that 95% of those youth would still hunt opening day. The point of youth is to increase hunter numbers right? How does it do that while also not setting up false expectations?

 

Its not setting up false expectations. It gives them a chance to get a taste, in nicer weather, and calm deer. If they can harvest an animal without having to freeze to death to do it the first time, the thought is that the retention rate may prove to increase. Time will tell whether that part of it is true, but thats no reason not to say the program is currently successful at putting youth hunters in the field safely, and they are being successful at harvesting deer.

 

The theories of it being an old school, opening day, war zone atmosphere has not held true. Sorry, but the naysayers have already been proven wrong. Why do you keep beating a broken drum?

[Five Seasons]

so if those successful hunters become to old for youth and don't land a deer in the harsh cold weather with pressured deer and stop hunting. Was it still successful? I'm not sure what drum I'm beating. All I said was only time will tell if it was successful. You spouted a bunch of facts (i find it hard to believe that not one of those was an abused tag) but silly for me to think the DEC would publish that anyhow... i mean it's their program and they can publish what they want. All those facts are great. When hunter numbers rise in 2 or 3 years after the first wave of youth graduate from the program then I'll be the one leading the parade down main street. And trust me, I want it to succeed. I'd be happy. I just don't agree with the programs logic, and I'm skeptical it will help. I would move it to first weekend of gun.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Belo

[WNYBuckHunter]

so if those successful hunters become to old for youth and don't land a deer in the harsh cold weather with pressured deer and stop hunting. Was it still successful? I'm not sure what drum I'm beating. All I said was only time will tell if it was successful. You spouted a bunch of facts (i find it hard to believe that not one of those was an abused tag) but silly for me to think the DEC would publish that anyhow... i mean it's their program and they can publish what they want. All those facts are great. When hunter numbers rise in 2 or 3 years after the first wave of youth graduate from the program then I'll be the one leading the parade down main street. And trust me, I want it to succeed. I'd be happy. I just don't agree with the programs logic, and I'm skeptical it will help. I would move it to first weekend of gun.

 

If the retention rate increases, it will be successful in that respect. If you move it to the first week of gun, you are removing the nice weather, more calm, pattern-able deer part of it. As far as the abused tags go, Im sure there were, but you cant judge an overall program by a few bad apples.

 

You keep spouting the doom and gloom that was being pushed by certain groups to oppose the implementation of the youth season, even after the vast majority of it has already been proven wrong. These special youth seasons have been successful other places, and are nothing brand new, NY is not some sort of pilot program.

[Five Seasons]

you keep picking apart the cons i pointed out and read right through the pros. patternable deer is one thing, but opening weekend of gun could and usually is the rut. Much better success rate. the few bad apple example was just a shot at your "zero infractions" stat. Of course they're not going to publish that. the warmer weather thing is exactly what some people point out as the setting up false expectations concern.

 

I said my peace. I don't believe I was that out spoken, I just said I believe there could have been a better time for it.

 

 

[jjb4900]

just got back from the youth hunt, my son passed on a small doe opening day....no opportunities after that. I will say that the noise created by the folks up for the holiday weekend caused more of a disruption than any type of hunting combined....quads, target shooting and people having fun in general were pretty annoying....I maybe heard 2-3 shots that were definitely hunting related, and special thanks to the bowhunters who didn't disrupt our hunt.

[BaldguyLee]

Went with my 14yo daughter Saturday AM. Had a great few-hour sit, and on the way out flushed a trio of deer bedded 10ft from our in-trail. I think we were more surprised than the deer. We heard only one shot that wasn't a .22.

[SteveB]

 7779 (61% eligible) in 2012 - probably less than 10,000 this year spread out across the entire state.

And you where surrounded by them?

OK.

[burmjohn]

If the retention rate increases, it will be successful in that respect. If you move it to the first week of gun, you are removing the nice weather, more calm, pattern-able deer part of it. As far as the abused tags go, Im sure there were, but you cant judge an overall program by a few bad apples.

 

You keep spouting the doom and gloom that was being pushed by certain groups to oppose the implementation of the youth season, even after the vast majority of it has already been proven wrong. These special youth seasons have been successful other places, and are nothing brand new, NY is not some sort of pilot program.

 

Hey this sounds like a lot of the arguments for AR's too... I'm for both btw.  Now I'll go duck and hide.

[Jeremy K]

Uneducated adult hunters are just uneducated young hunters all grown up . At first i was against the youth hunt , now i realize what a great opportunity it is to get kids up to speed and hopefully get them hooked and they become educated sportsman who will respect nature as well as respect other hunters . I still think people need to bow hunt before a gun though, to much pray and spray going on , i wonder how many people even realize how close a deer will get to you if you don't start spraying away as soon as it gets within a hundred yards. 

[irish_redneck]

Problem is that some of those uneducated adult hunters are the ones that are teaching the young hunters.

I'd rather see it be mentored by sporting clubs / dec.

That said... I'd figure if the woods are noisy around mine, and mine is peaceful... then these people are just moving deer my way.

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[bubba]

I was away for a while, but I remember reading this exact thread last year.  The names were changed to protect the innocent.

Edited October 15, 2013 by bubba

[cdmckane]

How is it different to squirrel hunting...really? Well, they ain't hunting squirrels for starters.

My point was that how is a 14/15 year old shooting a shotgun at a deer any different than me shooting my .17 at a squirrel or my .22 Hornet at a coyote in terms of the shot spooking the deer. Or by moving through the woods.

 

I wasn't aware that anyone had to pay to hunt this weekend.  As far as I know, as long as you hold a valid bow license, you've already paid to hunt these 46 days, so saying that this is a weekend you paid to hunt is kinda ridiculous.  FYI, those youth hunters paid to hunt this weekend, by the same logic, because they paid for a big game tag that was valid for them to use this weekend. 

[SteveB]

Bow is more noble.

 

 

How do you deal with the nose bleeds way up there?

[WNYBuckHunter]

you keep picking apart the cons i pointed out and read right through the pros. patternable deer is one thing, but opening weekend of gun could and usually is the rut. Much better success rate. the few bad apple example was just a shot at your "zero infractions" stat. Of course they're not going to publish that. the warmer weather thing is exactly what some people point out as the setting up false expectations concern.

I said my peace. I don't believe I was that out spoken, I just said I believe there could have been a better time for it.

Of course im responding to the cons, i agree with the pros lol. Do you need me to pat you on the back or something? Lol

I dont understand your shot at facts, are you going to argue that grass isnt green as well? Also, if you dont understand the weather and deer pattern differences between early October and mid November, then I dont know what to tell ya. Make early October gun season for everyone and see what happens with success rates.

[Five Seasons]

what about bluegrass?

 

my ego is sensitive. i do require pats on the back too

[skully]

I argued so hard against the youth season last year but to be honest with you there was barely a kid in the woods and no gunshots where I am so I really do not think it disturbs the deer to much.....

[Five Seasons]

My point was that how is a 14/15 year old shooting a shotgun at a deer any different than me shooting my .17 at a squirrel or my .22 Hornet at a coyote in terms of the shot spooking the deer. Or by moving through the woods.

 

I wasn't aware that anyone had to pay to hunt this weekend.  As far as I know, as long as you hold a valid bow license, you've already paid to hunt these 46 days, so saying that this is a weekend you paid to hunt is kinda ridiculous.  FYI, those youth hunters paid to hunt this weekend, by the same logic, because they paid for a big game tag that was valid for them to use this weekend. 

 

All I hear in this thread is squirrel hunters. How many of you actually squirrel hunt AND bow hunt. If you do squirrel hunt the same woods you bow hunt, how is that working out for you? A few of us said it earlier, but there's not many squirrel hunters around me till after deer season. And I'll be honest, and maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but deer seem to know when they're being shot at. target practice, duck etc have never seemed to bother them around me, but they certainly start using their nose a lot more and acting a lot more skittish come gun season. Heck the guns are going off during spring turkey too and the deer will come withing 20 yards of me and I'm not even covering my scent. I know it sounds funny. But they seem to know. Especially the mature deer who've been through a season or 2.

 

the hunt didn't wreck my weekend. it did affect my dad's. But it is what it is. I just hope it helps I guess.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Belo

[jjb4900]

All I hear in this thread is squirrel hunters. How many of you actually squirrel hunt AND bow hunt. If you do squirrel hunt the same woods you bow hunt, how is that working out for you? A few of us said it earlier, but there's not many squirrel hunters around me till after deer season. And I'll be honest, and maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but deer seem to know when they're being shot at. target practice, duck etc have never seemed to bother them around me, but they certainly start using their nose a lot more and acting a lot more skittish come gun season. Heck the guns are going off during spring turkey too and the deer will come withing 20 yards of me and I'm not even covering my scent. I know it sounds funny. But they seem to know. Especially the mature deer who've been through a season or 2.

 

the hunt didn't wreck my weekend. it did affect my dad's. But it is what it is. I just hope it helps I guess.

I actually Grouse and Turkey hunted the first few days of Archery, it was way too warm for me to want to hunt deer, and yes in the same woods I intend to bowhunt, although not the same day or even the same week I intend to do so........and I've had just as many dopey bowhunters screw up hunts as gun hunters........or is it that we're more easily annoyed when the solitude we expect during archery is shattered by someone?

[WNYBuckHunter]

 

 

the hunt didn't wreck my weekend. it did affect my dad's. But it is what it is. I just hope it helps I guess.

 

Can you extrapolate please?

[cdmckane]

All I hear in this thread is squirrel hunters. How many of you actually squirrel hunt AND bow hunt. If you do squirrel hunt the same woods you bow hunt, how is that working out for you?

I don't bow hunt. But I do squirrel and yote hunt in the very same woods I'll be deer hunting in. How's it work out for me? I'd say pretty good since I still have almost 100 pounds of venison in my freezer from last year.

If you're so opposed to the youth hunt during bow season, just buy yourself a shit ton of land, post every tree on the perimeter, deny anyone access and then you can bow hunt without being disturbed.

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