Would you vote to make it legal?

[crappyice]

In the real world Any farmer that owns livestock on their private property have the right to protect that livestock from any threat from any vermin be it wild bear or tame house dog. Not sure how you would think that those things would not be considered endangering someone’s livestock but I guess someone that does not have 100’s of 1000’s at stake may not.  Maybe that’s why rules and laws were made.   Not that it would stop me from protecting them regardless. 

So once they are treated like livestock (not dealing with vermin and bear on their own) and doesn't that change them from being wild? So not like hunting wild game? Don't gets mad at me...I'm trying to follow along!


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[Larry]

[Four Seasons]

8 hours ago, crappyice said:

So once they are treated like livestock (not dealing with vermin and bear on their own) and doesn't that change them from being wild? So not like hunting wild game? Don't gets mad at me...I'm trying to follow along!


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You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

[land 1]

You ever seen pen raised phesants ...dumb

[crappyice]

You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

I think it gives them a greater advantage than a wild deer would deal with ...plus the fence keeping all the other wild predators out.
Preserve deer are like the Martha Vineyard residents vs Florida residents dealing with illegal immigration! Hahha


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[Lawdwaz]

9 minutes ago, land 1 said:

You ever seen pen raised phesants ...dumb

I don’t like to think any animal is dumb.    I’d rather say they aren’t as savvy.   

[Five Seasons]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:49 AM, Four Seasons said:

You think because an animal that does not have to deal with two animals makes them less wild? That’s pretty funny right there. And the facts are that many places that have hunting ranches deal with vermin year round…Hence the deer are still dealing with them…. It’s just that owners of said ranches get to deal with them at anytime on their terms. It’s that private property thing again 

A hunting ranch is not a pen. And in NY (where this forum is centered around), maintaining a hunting ranch without fences does not make it legal to kill bear and yote out of season or without tags. It doesn't matter how many thousands you have at stake as the deer are not your property. This isn't europe where the deer are the king's deer. This is north america where the deer are the property of the people. Your deer are considered livestock with no rules because you entrap them within a fence and make money off of them. 

We've had this argument before and you've made it very clear multiple times over that you and your buddies break the law with crossbows and other game laws because they have these large tracts of land that they have invested in and so they feel justified to hunt with a crossbow and poach other non-deer species because they pay their taxes. You may feel however you want (how very liberal of you btw), but it doesn't in no court of law make any of it legal. Your property in North America doesn't give you any rights above and beyond a guy like Bill who hunts public land. He may be a "peasant" in your eyes because he doesn't have 1000 acres in his name, but in the eyes of the law he has just as much a right to that deer as you do should it cross lines. 

[Five Seasons]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:53 AM, Lawdwaz said:

I don’t like to think any animal is dumb.    I’d rather say they aren’t as savvy.   

fair point. There is no doubt that that it's generally easy to kill a bb because they get booted early from their mom and they just don't know sh!t about hunters and predators at their age. It's no different than dropping off a 7 year old and a 30 year old in the middle of the woods and see who survives longer.

[Four Seasons]

29 minutes ago, Belo said:

A hunting ranch is not a pen. And in NY (where this forum is centered around), maintaining a hunting ranch without fences does not make it legal to kill bear and yote out of season or without tags. It doesn't matter how many thousands you have at stake as the deer are not your property. This isn't europe where the deer are the king's deer. This is north america where the deer are the property of the people. Your deer are considered livestock with no rules because you entrap them within a fence and make money off of them. 

We've had this argument before and you've made it very clear multiple times over that you and your buddies break the law with crossbows and other game laws because they have these large tracts of land that they have invested in and so they feel justified to hunt with a crossbow and poach other non-deer species because they pay their taxes. You may feel however you want (how very liberal of you btw), but it doesn't in no court of law make any of it legal. Your property in North America doesn't give you any rights above and beyond a guy like Bill who hunts public land. He may be a "peasant" in your eyes because he doesn't have 1000 acres in his name, but in the eyes of the law he has just as much a right to that deer as you do should it cross lines. 

So your saying a high fenced piece of property can not carry the word Ranch?  Any yes on any high fence ranch….. and if you did your homework even a low fence ranch can kill any animal that is harming their animals in any manner. Of course those won’t be Whitetails, Regardless of time of year or type of animal. I know many a farmer that have blown the head off of Fido next door because their owner would not keep them under control and on their own property. And then watch them Sue Fido’s owners for the loss of income that Fido caused.                Next!

Edited September 28, 2022 by Four Seasons

[Five Seasons]

9 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

So your saying a high fenced piece of property can not carry the word Ranch?  Any yes on any high fence ranch….. and if you did your homework even a low fence ranch can kill any animal that is harming their animals in any manner. Of course those won’t be Whitetails, Regardless of time of year or type of animal. I know many a farmer that have blown the head off of Fido next door because their owner would not keep them under control and on their own property. And then watch them Sue Fido’s owners for the loss of income that Fido caused.                Next!

do you feel like you won some argument? You didn't dispute anything I just said. Of course a farmer can protect his livestock. I said as much. Your high fenced deer are livestock, and you and your partners are farmers. Do you dispute that?

[ridgerunner88]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

It's no different than dropping off a 7 year old and a 30 year old in the middle of the woods and see who survives longer.

I don't know man, my 9 year old can probably live off his boogers for a couple weeks... my younger brother who is 29 isn't lasting 3 days!

Edited September 28, 2022 by ridgerunner88

[Larry]

this is fun to watch these guys troll each other

[Four Seasons]

7 hours ago, Belo said:

do you feel like you won some argument? You didn't dispute anything I just said. Of course a farmer can protect his livestock. I said as much. Your high fenced deer are livestock, and you and your partners are farmers. Do you dispute that?

My partners?  If your talking about the high fence hunting ranches I am invested in then no to the true word of farmers they are not. Two of them never have any leftover animals to even have to worry about feeding and the one with all the water and islands have very few make it thru. I guess you could call that one a farm if dropping a round bale in once a month farming Here at my place it’s 100% farming with no harvesting of animals. As far as livestock yes we get the write offs and all the other goodies and cattle or sheep farmer may get  The best of both worlds. 

[BizCT]

Is the deal off? Thread closed?


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[Five Seasons]

11 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

My partners?  If your talking about the high fence hunting ranches I am invested in then no to the true word of farmers they are not. Two of them never have any leftover animals to even have to worry about feeding and the one with all the water and islands have very few make it thru. I guess you could call that one a farm if dropping a round bale in once a month farming Here at my place it’s 100% farming with no harvesting of animals. As far as livestock yes we get the write offs and all the other goodies and cattle or sheep farmer may get  The best of both worlds. 

so if the deer are livestock and they manage them, what would you call them if not farmers? If the deer aren't livestock and they're not farmers, wouldn't you agree that they shouldn't be able to kill bear and yote out of season?

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. It's one of the other my dude. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, BizCT said:

Is the deal off? Thread closed?


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the way I look at it is the chef is still willing but fourseasons wants chef to fork over 3 grand in advance, which I think we can all agree is bs. If fourseasons accepts chef handing the 3 grand to an independent 3rd party then that seems fair. If he doesn't accept that offer, I call this a win for chef and the biggest L in the history of this forum for 4 seasons. maybe we can vote on it? lol.

[BizCT]

25 minutes ago, Belo said:

the way I look at it is the chef is still willing but fourseasons wants chef to fork over 3 grand in advance, which I think we can all agree is bs. If fourseasons accepts chef handing the 3 grand to an independent 3rd party then that seems fair. If he doesn't accept that offer, I call this a win for chef and the biggest L in the history of this forum for 4 seasons. maybe we can vote on it? lol.

I agree with you assessment. I am happy to hold the money as the third party. I'm treasurer of the forum fantasy league, so my credentials are there.

Edited September 29, 2022 by BizCT

[Four Seasons]

41 minutes ago, Belo said:

so if the deer are livestock and they manage them, what would you call them if not farmers? If the deer aren't livestock and they're not farmers, wouldn't you agree that they shouldn't be able to kill bear and yote out of season?

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. It's one of the other my dude. 

They are considered livestock in the usda eyes that’s a fact. If you call selling them management then that’s what it is. I sure would not call what they do there any kind of farming practices that’s for sure.               If you had an enclosure with say Black Labs in it for breeding purposes and a bear or yote was ether in there or working them up so bad they were bouncing off the enclosure breaking legs and breaking legs should you be able to protect them at any cost?                                                                       Not so sure about the cake but a person has every right to eat whatever is on their private property destroying their private property. And we do.  

[Four Seasons]

50 minutes ago, Belo said:

the way I look at it is the chef is still willing but fourseasons wants chef to fork over 3 grand in advance, which I think we can all agree is bs. If fourseasons accepts chef handing the 3 grand to an independent 3rd party then that seems fair. If he doesn't accept that offer, I call this a win for chef and the biggest L in the history of this forum for 4 seasons. maybe we can vote on it? lol.

I can afford the loss to a guy that said what no less then 3 times he was afraid he would shoot the wrong deer in a pen that he said would be so easy to hunt in. Yeah I’m good with that. 

[Paula]

57 minutes ago, Belo said:

the way I look at it is the chef is still willing but fourseasons wants chef to fork over 3 grand in advance, which I think we can all agree is bs. If fourseasons accepts chef handing the 3 grand to an independent 3rd party then that seems fair. If he doesn't accept that offer, I call this a win for chef and the biggest L in the history of this forum for 4 seasons. maybe we can vote on it? lol.

I think the money was asked for as a deposit because chef asked what would happen if he shot the wrong deer

 

 

oh I see four season answered

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Paula

[Five Seasons]

36 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

They are considered livestock in the usda eyes that’s a fact. If you call selling them management then that’s what it is. I sure would not call what they do there any kind of farming practices that’s for sure.               If you had an enclosure with say Black Labs in it for breeding purposes and a bear or yote was ether in there or working them up so bad they were bouncing off the enclosure breaking legs and breaking legs should you be able to protect them at any cost?                                                                       Not so sure about the cake but a person has every right to eat whatever is on their private property destroying their private property. And we do.  

I think raising dogs fall under the same umbrellas a livestock as you're raising an animal for profit.

34 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

I can afford the loss to a guy that said what no less then 3 times he was afraid he would shoot the wrong deer in a pen that he said would be so easy to hunt in. Yeah I’m good with that. 

I don't disagree that you need a deposit, but why not let a 3rd party hold it? I see why chef wouldn't want to fork it over to the "guide" for fear he doesn't get it back even if he does follow the rules. 

[mowin]

26 minutes ago, Paula said:

I think the money was asked for as a deposit because chef asked what would happen if he shot the wrong deer

 

 

oh I see four season answered

 

 

 

Exactly. 

What's to stop him from shooting a huge/wrong buck if there no repercussions?  I for one wouldn't trust anyone in this situation to follow the rules. 

[mowin]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

I think raising dogs fall under the same umbrellas a livestock as you're raising an animal for profit.

I don't disagree that you need a deposit, but why not let a 3rd party hold it? I see why chef wouldn't want to fork it over to the "guide" for fear he doesn't get it back even if he does follow the rules. 

If this was your hunting ranch, would you trust someone you don't know or ever met to hold the deposit?  

I understand chefs reluctance to pop down the money, but it's the owners of the ranch that have the most to loose.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Shoot with a paintball. Problem solved. The next guy that buys the deer can get it out with some club soda


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[Five Seasons]

35 minutes ago, mowin said:

Exactly. 

What's to stop him from shooting a huge/wrong buck if there no repercussions?  I for one wouldn't trust anyone in this situation to follow the rules. 

 

31 minutes ago, mowin said:

If this was your hunting ranch, would you trust someone you don't know or ever met to hold the deposit?  

I understand chefs reluctance to pop down the money, but it's the owners of the ranch that have the most to loose.

Sounds like these guys are just rolling in it. $3k doesn't seem like it'd put them in the poor house, but clearly the 3rd party would have to be someone chef and fourseasons would feel is impartial and trustworthy, I saw biz volunteer. I'd volunteer as well but not sure fourseasons would be ok with that either. 

Even if chef shot the wrong buck, I don't see him taking it home without payment so there's obviously some deterrent there. Whats the point of shooting a 150 if you can't put it on your wall right?