Passing on bucks because of Antler Restrictions

[A Sportsman]

Just to add another point, regarding buck/doe ratios, my hunting party and I have seen a pretty good ratio in the section of 3A we hunt.  It follows what you would expect.  Not too many hunters, pretty good ratio. That said, it is true that overall deer sightings are low.  Or very low. 

 

Regarding the initial topic at hand here (Passing on bucks that are under the AR 3 pt rule), it seems to happen to my group every year at least once or twice.  We have seen some pretty nice bucks that we had to pass on because we couldnt confirm the 3rd point.  We also have an issue in our area with a decent number of the bucks not having brow tines, which doesnt help.  When you are on foot, trying to work out a shot on a buck that is on the move, and per chance stopping in cover, and then moving again with its head down, etc., it can be real tough to get eyes on that third point.  And if the rack is a darker brown, its even tougher.  Last year I had to pass up shots on a 6 pointer twice, while trying to see his antlers. And he kept moving away from me.  I had to stalk into position for a shot 3 times before I could pull the trigger on him.  I still think AR was a big mistake for 3A considering the dearth of hunters and the fact that shooting any buck in that area is an accomplishment.  But it is the rule and so we have to deal.

[the blur]

What is the penalty on shooting a buck too small?

[Doc]

I am not so sure just what the management benefits are if you set up so many restrictions that you begin to lose the most important and irreplaceable management tool that the DEC has ...... the hunters. We seem to be getting regulation-crazy. Got a problem?... set up a new round of restrictions (sounds like gun control ....lol). I think there are signs that thinking exclusively in that way (admittedly along with a lot of other reasons) is beginning to take its toll on the future of hunting.

[bubba]

I don't think you have to have a DMP to tag out. tagging out in my mind is simply filling every tag(s) you've got, be it one or many. I don't think ARs are as much of a problem as habitat from what others have said that to me would make sense. the OP even had a great idea of opening it up to selective logging in areas to create some regrowth with the understory browse and cover. there's some problems with getting that to go through and pass but it's a good idea. Make it possible to kill any deer in the woods and watch the numbers go to nothing, regardless of the habitat. the problem with hunting numbers going down is the mentality of it's a big buck or little buck.... it's meat or it's antlers. let the damn thing live that's only a year old and watch it. sit back and watch and let a kid or new hunter learn what it's doing and why it's doing it. let them see it as a deer and they'll appreciate it when a bigger wiser one comes along. my dad own's 350+ acres of farm land. he hunted and got me into it. now we've got a bunch of hunters on the property, who happen to be family, that have the mentality of you simply got a deer or you didn't. now during gun season he can't sit there and simply watch deer in any of his fields if there's anything legal without WWIII gun fire happening at the very deer he's watching even if they are out of range. he gets disappointed and then goes back down the house/barn yard to get work done. I hardly see him during the season. he's basically stopped buying a license and stopped hunting. ever since we've gone to a self imposed 3 pts to a side he sees deer have a chance to live and sparks up when we show him some trail camera photos of deer that made it. he was never about big antlers before when he hunted, he just wanted to know there was a chance a big one could be around the next tree or that something was left to look at.

my point simply if i get one buck tag no dmp how enthused will hunters be. I doubt many of you would even hunt in those conditions. One size does not fit all

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[SteveB]

my point simply if i get one buck tag no dmp how enthused will hunters be. I doubt many of you would even hunt in those conditions. One size does not fit all

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With sarcasm:

 

Some say just hunt somewhere else and not to complain.

After all it's because we need protection from ourselves for the sake of the deer.

Edited December 3, 2013 by SteveB

[hayseed]

I'm all for antler restrictions here in 7m.  Plenty of food, lots of deer.  If the Amish would follow the AR, we would be on to something.

[nys-buckstalker]

No doe permits and ARs in the same area-yikesI can't imagine the hunting pressure is that high

 

Oh it is, everybody and their brother are trying to "shooter" bucks . There is about 250 acres of DEP city land across the road from my girlfriend's house. The 3 dogs were carrying on something ferious on sat afternoon like someone was at door. Looked out front door and there was 3 deer running down middle of road and heading across a state road for safety. Drove up the road from house and there was 4 trucks in 3/4 mile stretch of road hunting the property. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm all for antler restrictions here in 7m.  Plenty of food, lots of deer.  If the Amish would follow the AR, we would be on to something.

what makes you think they would choose to follow that law. they ignore all the others and their season is 365/24/7

[JFB]

Just to add another point, regarding buck/doe ratios, my hunting party and I have seen a pretty good ratio in the section of 3A we hunt.  It follows what you would expect.  Not too many hunters, pretty good ratio. That said, it is true that overall deer sightings are low.  Or very low. 

 

Regarding the initial topic at hand here (Passing on bucks that are under the AR 3 pt rule), it seems to happen to my group every year at least once or twice.  We have seen some pretty nice bucks that we had to pass on because we couldnt confirm the 3rd point.  We also have an issue in our area with a decent number of the bucks not having brow tines, which doesnt help.  When you are on foot, trying to work out a shot on a buck that is on the move, and per chance stopping in cover, and then moving again with its head down, etc., it can be real tough to get eyes on that third point.  And if the rack is a darker brown, its even tougher.  Last year I had to pass up shots on a 6 pointer twice, while trying to see his antlers. And he kept moving away from me.  I had to stalk into position for a shot 3 times before I could pull the trigger on him.  I still think AR was a big mistake for 3A considering the dearth of hunters and the fact that shooting any buck in that area is an accomplishment.  But it is the rule and so we have to deal.

 

Ya gotta applaud someone doing the right thing here. How many guys in a non AR area just unload their gun haphazardly at the first sight of a deer rather than waiting for a good shot and safe identification? 

 

One size may indeed not fit all regions of NY, but it sure wouldn't be hard to figure out which counties or large area's have poor habitat or very low numbers where AR would less favorable. In my opinion, a large majority of the state could afford to show a little restraint and put some age on the deer. 

[dbHunterNY]

my point simply if i get one buck tag no dmp how enthused will hunters be. I doubt many of you would even hunt in those conditions. One size does not fit all

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buy the muzzleloader privilege and shoot a doe with your buck tag during late season.  also you just got another doe tag for the muzzleloader privilege.  you've got to get off the DMP thing though.  they're considered as additional permits and you're not going to get them in a place were deer numbers are low.  if every person could get and fill a DMP in that area you'd be really enthused next season, as there would be just about half as many deer as there is now.  it's not an unlimited resource.  That said I do hope changes are made to improve habitat and increase holding capacity so deer numbers pick up to help you folks out.

[dbHunterNY]

Ya gotta applaud someone doing the right thing here. How many guys in a non AR area just unload their gun haphazardly at the first sight of a deer rather than waiting for a good shot and safe identification? 

 

One size may indeed not fit all regions of NY, but it sure wouldn't be hard to figure out which counties or large area's have poor habitat or very low numbers where AR would less favorable. In my opinion, a large majority of the state could afford to show a little restraint and put some age on the deer. 

 

a lot unload their guns like that here with no ARs.  the argument I get from people is "what if the deer is running fast through the woods or field? I don't have time to count points!  I've got to shoot!"  I tell them if that's the case you shouldn't shoot anyway.  that's how deer get wounded often.  happened this year on the farm.  in the area I know of half a dozen people that unloaded all the shells they could fit in their gun at deer this gun season.  some were in the woods too!  I'm no Annie Oakley but a pretty good shot from what I've been told.  I can't see all those shots being carefully and even quickly aimed.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

a lot unload their guns like that here with no ARs.  the argument I get from people is "what if the deer is running fast through the woods or field? I don't have time to count points!  I've got to shoot!"  I tell them if that's the case you shouldn't shoot anyway.  that's how deer get wounded often.  happened this year on the farm.  in the area I know of half a dozen people that unloaded all the shells they could fit in their gun at deer this gun season.  some were in the woods too!  I'm no Annie Oakley but a pretty good shot from what I've been told.  I can't see all those shots being carefully and even quickly aimed.

 

the first 4 are just to get the brush out of the way for the fifth shot. That last one is the good one   

[dbHunterNY]

the first 4 are just to get the brush out of the way for the fifth shot. That last one is the good one   

 

you might be on to something.  also I'm thinking the ones in the wide open fields were to give the deer a runnin chance.  seems fair in that context. lol

[the blur]

I empty my mag when I take a deer.   Once he's down, I keep shooting till he's dead.   I am not tracking.  Wondering in circles around the woods.  The deer is down for good.     The rest of you guys will be knifing your deer to death.  Or poking him in the eye to see if there is still movement.   While I'm field dressing.

 

And the best part is:  if you fire 4 rounds in the woods, other hunters come over to see what's going on.   They think you shot a bear.   So hey, while they are there, they help you drag out your deer.   Works like a charm

[ncountry]

I carry a single shot.....so if I get more than one shot off it is one dumb deer..lol

[bubba]

Me too. I love the north country where common sense prevails

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[phade]

Me too. I love the north country where common sense prevails

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Isn't North Country where Ancestry.com and eHarmony.com are one in the same?

 

Sorry, I saw a photo of a game poster with that on it between Auburn and Alabama last week...cracked me up.

[bubba]

might be so but it is also the area where i can go hunting and not hear shots like a war zone all day and have to dress like a pumpkin to feel semi safe and we do not shoot deer 4 times after they are on the ground.  i will take that any day

[dbHunterNY]

might be so but it is also the area where i can go hunting and not hear shots like a war zone all day and have to dress like a pumpkin to feel semi safe and we do not shoot deer 4 times after they are on the ground.  i will take that any day

 

i'll admit that would be nice.

[bubba]

buy the muzzleloader privilege and shoot a doe with your buck tag during late season.  also you just got another doe tag for the muzzleloader privilege.  you've got to get off the DMP thing though.  they're considered as additional permits and you're not going to get them in a place were deer numbers are low.  if every person could get and fill a DMP in that area you'd be really enthused next season, as there would be just about half as many deer as there is now.  it's not an unlimited resource.  That said I do hope changes are made to improve habitat and increase holding capacity so deer numbers pick up to help you folks out.

 

 

Actually i could get a dmp every year if I chose to.  I do not invoke my land owner privilege to get one.  I had 4 preference points  this year, and got turned down again.  When I do get one, I sign it over to a young inexperienced hunter so thay have a chance to fill it.  So I think I have a right to speak about DMP's.  My point about Dmp's as you seem to miss it a lot is almost all here who are for AR seem to get a handful of DMP's every year they can use to fill their freezers.  If they were not allowed that possibility, I doubt they would be so for AR if their hunting choices were so limited.  So again I doubt very many of you would bother to hunt in my area if you had AR and no extra tags to fill.   

[Doc]

My point about Dmp's is almost all here who are for AR seem to get a handful of DMP's every year they can use to fill their freezers.  If they were not allowed that possibility, I doubt they would be so for AR if their hunting choices were so limited.  

 

This a point that I have been making for several years now, ever since I have been hearing all these people who want AR to be adopted statewide. The point is that not all habitat and population situations are created equal across this state and basically one size regulation does not fit all. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about that. I think that hunters are very susceptible to the line of thinking that what they see in their hunting area is the way it is all over the state and can't imagine that there are places that may not have the same opportunities as they do. It's either that or it is an attitude of "I've got mine and the heck with anyone else". But either way, I totally understand that when you severely limit or eliminate DMPs, and then place severe restrictions on what bucks can be taken, you are pretty much telling the hunters of those areas that they can spend the bucks for their license, but it pretty much entitles them to only participate in a "nature walk". Grab your camera and leave the gun at home. And then we wring our hands over the fact that every year brings a smaller and smaller number of hunters.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Actually i could get a dmp every year if I chose to.  I do not invoke my land owner privilege to get one.  I had 4 preference points  this year, and got turned down again.  When I do get one, I sign it over to a young inexperienced hunter so thay have a chance to fill it.  So I think I have a right to speak about DMP's.  My point about Dmp's as you seem to miss it a lot is almost all here who are for AR seem to get a handful of DMP's every year they can use to fill their freezers.  If they were not allowed that possibility, I doubt they would be so for AR if their hunting choices were so limited.  So again I doubt very many of you would bother to hunt in my area if you had AR and no extra tags to fill.   

Great that you give the DMP to a new hunter. I don't know much about the land owner permits. Can't they be signed over like regular DMP's?

[bubba]

They are the same. If you own 50 acres or more ypu are guaranteed a dmp is all

I do not use my land owner status ro bump someone who does not get that chance. I never felt myself privileged

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

They are the same. If you own 50 acres or more ypu are guaranteed a dmp is all

I do not use my land owner status ro bump someone who does not get that chance. I never felt myself privileged

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Bubba, but if you can use it to give a new guy or kid an opportunity up there with you, wouldn't it be worth it?

[bubba]

I just do not agree with the program. Why because i own land do i get an advantage. I could break up mine into 50 acre parcels like some do so we could all get a dmp. I am not doing the population any good then. This takes the thread in another direction and i apilogize. Just pointing out how one size does not fit all.

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