A Little Closer Look at the Bear Program Proposal

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Easy button to get to at the top of the page. Used more on some than other's.  Ahh Yes, Bear Management.

 Shot on sight in these area's.

[A Sportsman]

Baiting and hounds both don't sit well with me personally. But I don't know if I would judge someone negatively if that is what they were into. If I were to hunt for bear (not shoot them as a bycatch while deer hunting), I'd rather hunt them by still hunting than sitting over bait.

I like the ideas of the spring season and september season. Another opportunity to get in the woods during the year is a nice thing.

[mike rossi]

You can already run bears in NY with hounds, you just cant kill them. The sporting quality ends when the bear is bayed or treed. This is good enough IMO.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/25006.html

[JALA RUT]

You can already run bears in NY with hounds, you just cant kill them. The sporting quality ends when the bear is bayed or treed. This is good enough IMO.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/25006.html

 

Mike, That's interesting...I never knew that was allowed in NY. I don't have a dog for that but still good to know...Thanks!

[notasheep]

I don't like the idea of using bait to hunt bears.but as far as using dogs to hunt them it has been the way to hunt bears all over the U.S. For years.now Wisconsin will allow dogs to be used to hunt wolves.bears do kill and eat fawns,as the bear population grows in our state the sooner we begin to manage their numbers the better.a spring bear hunt,when they're out looking for fawns would be great,might even whack a coyote or two also.

[Doc]

My understanding of the plan is that under current seasons and regulations, there is pretty much a lack of interest in hunting bears. And yet there is a growing population of bears that somehow have to be controlled. I understand the lack of interest aspect. There is no way that I would purposely go out with the sole purpose of killing a bear. The odds against success are ridiculous. So what they are trying to do is to create a "bear-hunting culture" change where people actually enthusiastically try to harvest a bear. The baiting, hounds, and trapping thoughts are simply methods to make the pursuit practical and entice participation.

 

While none of these methods would interest me, I was just curious how others view these possibilities, and how many would actually use any of these methods. In other words, would the allowance of these methods really create this "bear-hunting culture" that they are trying to create?

[mike rossi]

My understanding of the plan is that under current seasons and regulations, there is pretty much a lack of interest in hunting bears. And yet there is a growing population of bears that somehow have to be controlled. I understand the lack of interest aspect. There is no way that I would purposely go out with the sole purpose of killing a bear. The odds against success are ridiculous. So what they are trying to do is to create a "bear-hunting culture" change where people actually enthusiastically try to harvest a bear. The baiting, hounds, and trapping thoughts are simply methods to make the pursuit practical and entice participation.

 

While none of these methods would interest me, I was just curious how others view these possibilities, and how many would actually use any of these methods. In other words, would the allowance of these methods really create this "bear-hunting culture" that they are trying to create?

 

Doc,

 

I am not positive because I did not read the draft yet, but I suspect that the trapping referred to by the HSUS on their form letter is an embellishment of the DEC's own trapping effort to relocate and/or study bears, rather than a trapping season for sportsmen. The traps used are not footholds or snares, but contraptions more similar to huge box/cage traps. Embellishment  is a known tactic of the HSUS. Somebody should read the plan so trapping is addressed in the correct context. Interestingly, if we read a HSUS document and don't catch a mischaracterization, and fail to refer to the actual DEC document for verification, what are the chances the public at large or some suit in Albany will? Don't get offended by this, I almost did the same thing while "sleep reading"...

Edited February 13, 2014 by mike rossi

[A Sportsman]

I agree Doc that the DEC is trying to drum up interest. I suppose if the numbers are high and hunters can get excited about the additional opportunity, its a win win.

Where I hunt in catskills has some of the highest bear densities in the state. YEt even with the higher likekihood of seeing one, I don't find myself too "excited" to strictly bear hunt. Though I may do it if other guys in my hunting party want to do it.

My feeling is that in the areas with high populations, hunters already have a pretty goood chance of seeing one without dogs and bait. May have to put in a reasonable amount of time. Say 5 days of hunting, couple of guys. that said, I would suppose if you are hunting them in spring, or sepetember with full foliage, it will be more difficult to get eyes on them.

For us, over past decade, I think the rule that you can't shoot a bear in a group has saved a handful of mama bears. In fact that is another potential rule change that I'm not too keen on. I don't want to shoot a cub, nor take a mama away from cubs.heck I don't want to shoot a small bear, say under 130 dressed either.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 I don't want to shoot a small bear, say under 130 dressed either.

That is probably one of the best arguments for the baiting part of the proposal. For me a bear was one of the toughest to estimate the actual size of.  in a natural setting and little frame of reference  they sure look bigger than they are. besides protecting the bait, one reason they use the 55 gallon drums for baiting is to estimate size.

[Doc]

Doc,

 

I am not positive because I did not read the draft yet, but I suspect that the trapping referred to by the HSUS on their form letter is an embellishment of the DEC's own trapping effort to relocate and/or study bears, rather than a trapping season for sportsmen. The traps used are not footholds or snares, but contraptions more similar to huge box/cage traps. 

Mike-

 

The link to the draft is in the original post on this thread. Check it out. It is pretty interesting reading.

 

As far as the trapping mentioned, I see it listed as the third means of harvest right along with hounds and bait. These are things that they are researching and studying, not actual proposals. I'm pretty sure that they are talking about a general trapping season. Also, I have been informed that Maine has a bear trapping season, so it is not unheard of here in the northeast.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I know with our 700 acres of beans and corn across the road from Ft Drum we get more than our share of bears on us. I know of 5 taken on drum last fall, shot as they came across the road from dining all night and wrecking piles of corn. Looks like a bomb went off when they get done rolling around. Have shot at many's feet to shooo them away from our fences. Dog hunting would never work in this area unless they allowed it on drum.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I know with our 700 acres of beans and corn across the road from Ft Drum we get more than our share of bears on us. I know of 5 taken on drum last fall, shot as they came across the road from dining all night and wrecking piles of corn. Looks like a bomb went off when they get done rolling around. Have shot at many's feet to shooo them away from our fences. Dog hunting would never work in this area unless they allowed it on drum.

Looks like crop circles when they are in it. One area I hunt the farmer (cash farmer) quit planting corn because he kept having so much damage.

[NFA-ADK]

So much for fair chase.  I understand the concept but I doubt this will get a bunch of hunters in the woods to hunt bear.  Another species considered a rat, did not take long for that, shocker. 

 

If they are rats just like deer let the snipers do it, after all snipers are the best way to control population right?  I figured because so many advocate this use as population control it would have all ready been advised.  Snipers are the only way to control the population, hunters just don't do enough.  

One thing is for sure changing these regulations will not fill the woods with bear hunters.  Snipers are the only way to control populations.  And yes I have to point out that this is sarcasm for some it has to be spelled out.

[Doewhacker]

You are an idiot.

 

No one ever books hunts in other states for Bear by your logic, because you have no interest no other hunters do either.

 

Way to support other hunters. We aren't talking about deer on LI in suburbs, we are talking about Bears in a state wide management discussion.

 

Just like I said before, its nice to see you siding with anti hunters, again showing your true colors.

[mike rossi]

Mike-

 

The link to the draft is in the original post on this thread. Check it out. It is pretty interesting reading.

 

As far as the trapping mentioned, I see it listed as the third means of harvest right along with hounds and bait. These are things that they are researching and studying, not actual proposals. I'm pretty sure that they are talking about a general trapping season. Also, I have been informed that Maine has a bear trapping season, so it is not unheard of here in the northeast.

 

I see that on page 17, on the top the DEC says: "bait, hounds, trapping, and spring hunts could provide additional management tools and generate interest in bear hunting... These are currently not lawful in NY, but are used successfully elsewhere  and should be assessed for management value in NY".

 

And as you indicate, these harvest methods are all under evaluation. That likely means the comments on this draft will weigh in, but it is also likely they will do another  one of their 5,000 hunter surveys in the future.

 

It also means that if they do decide to implement any of them, it may again go to the lawmakers. Not to beat a dead horse, but at that point politicians may again "grand stand" on any proposals they sponsor or otherwise support. However, knowing what we know now, we can trace it back to this draft, lol... And, if we search into the archives of the NYSCC resolutions, both passed and rejected, we probably can go back even farther...

[mike rossi]

I am not suggesting the DEC should neglect any management plan or recovery plan, whether it is black bears or karner blue butterflies... However, I find it interesting that the DEC is willing to tackle some extremely controversial issues when it comes to this very ambitious black bear management plan.

Edited February 13, 2014 by mike rossi

[jjb4900]

using hounds to track bear in NY is not a free for all, it has regulations and it requires licensing.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/25006.html

oh, and I would love to hunt bear with hounds and would also hunt them over bait if it were to ever become legal.

[Doewhacker]

I am not suggesting the DEC should neglect any management plan or recovery plan, whether it is black bears or karner blue butterflies... However, I find it interesting that the DEC is willing to tackle some extremely controversial issues when it comes to this very ambitious black bear management plan.

 

And that is why I do not expect much from this.

 

 

I am happy to have the oppourtunity to give my comment's to the DEC though.

[Doc]

We've never had very many bears around until recently, and I've got to say that I am totally ignorant about bear hunting in general. But there are a few things that I have picked up on the subject over the years. First of all, hunting bears with dogs is not something that I will ever be involved with. I think I have left that level of exertion behind me quite a few years ago ... lol. I guess as long as I am not letting myself open to having some traveling circus of bear and dogs ramming across my property while I am trying to deer hunt, I probably wouldn't have much of a problem with others getting into it.

 

Bait .... I am generally an opponent of such practices for reasons stated before, but I have been led to believe that hunting bears in ways similar to deer is probably not all that practical (trail watching and still hunting). Not saying its impossible because I know it isn't. But if the DEC seriously wants to increase the harvest of these critters, I think baiting is the only practical way that that will ever happen. Again, it is probably not anything that I will ever get involved in, but it seems like with effective bear harvesting, it has an important place.

 

Trapping ..... Another activity that I am very well versed in, but not when it comes to bears. I do know that bear traps are a pretty intimidating piece of equipment, and I doubt that I would ever want to find myself tangled up in one, but again, I have no idea what he pros and cons of bear trapping might be. I would need an awful lot explained to me before I could ever form an opinion.

 

As far as the sporting aspects of any of these activities, the population control needs may transcend those concerns. In the case of bears, I believe it does.

 

[brandon_h]

any bear trapping will be done utilizing a foot snare.... it is a totally different than those bear traps many are thinking of.. i used one when i went to maine years back to try to cable a bear.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rN8ZXEyIdhM

the one part that the video does not show is that once the cable locks down on the foot, the bear pulls right out of the metal launcher and the springs on the side relax.. very user friendly and safe to use

[phade]

I am not a fain of baiting deer but support the baited hunting of bear. They are two different animals and two different means to hunting in my opinion. I think a spring season would be pretty fun.

 

 

[jjb4900]

I am not a fain of baiting deer but support the baited hunting of bear. They are two different animals and two different means to hunting in my opinion. I think a spring season would be pretty fun.

I too would think spring bear hunting would be a great addition, I'm all for it.

[jjb4900]

and ask anyone who has hunted bear or any other animal for that matter with hounds and they'll tell you how easy it is.............only problem is you need access to a lot of land to do it effectively.

[coonhunter]

I can tell Doc has a little true information about running bears with dogs. Anyone that thinks hunting with hounds is easy has never raised and trained the dogs. Just think how easy it is when the bear gets treed on the back side of a huge swamp or beaver pond.

 

I have run a lot of hounds in my day, and even with good dogs, you sure don't expect a lot of easy races. Sure is nice when it happens, but don't get used to it.

 

There are quite a few people that run hounds after bear during NY's training season. Funny thing is, most of the guys only care about the hounds looking good, and rarely if ever shoot a bear out when they run in states where it is allowed.

 

I will agree that running with hounds is for big country. I don't even run hounds after coon anymore because there are too many houses and cars.

 

[jjb4900]

why is it ok for people to hunt rabbits with a dog but not bear.....same concept, different animal, no?