Interesting Home Defense Topic

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have a 20 ga with alternating loads of buckshot and slugs at arms reach. My 380 with laser sight is always close as well. I know which directions I will and will not fire towards just in case a round goes through the wall. There will be no warning from me, like Culver said, the last thing they will see is a muzzle flash. I hope it never happens.

[jjb4900]

It has nothing to do with training, trust me. When your choices are killing the person in front of you or never seeing your wife and children again, you'd be surprised how calm you are.

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I doubt anyone would be calm while going through something like that, but since you said "trust me", I assume you're talking from experience...

Edited February 27, 2014 by jjb4900

[Five Seasons]

Bigger is always better, as far as holes in your opponent go.

I really wish I hadn't sold my .45 gold cup years ago. That would be my HD gun right now in a heartbeat. Alas.

Not sure it's a matter of being able to 'handle it'. Much more about being proficient with it.

 

Maybe it's just me, but being able to handle something is very similar to being proficient.

[dbHunterNY]

Where does it say that?

 

first off I'm not a lawyer.  this is what I've picked up on and think only.  it basically goes back to case law and covering your own butt after the fact.  Our Penal law basically says you can't just shoot someone because they broke into your home.  You the victim must be put in a situation where deadly force or severe injury is believed to be imminent.  If you can't clearly see if they have a weapon, this would instead clarify that did in fact have intentions to harm you.  I think it might also be in there that you can only use deadly force if you can't readily get away.  for example you might be in trouble after the fact if you were running away from an attacker outside that wasn't pursing you, then turned around and shot him/her.  right now I can't quote the exact law without doing some searching.

[Elmo]

It has nothing to do with training, trust me. When your choices are killing the person in front of you or never seeing your wife and children again, you'd be surprised how calm you are.

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Are you speaking from experience?

Edited February 27, 2014 by Elmo

[Five Seasons]

Best home defense weapon??? ...... Why not ask the guys whose profession is to take out bad guys inside buildings and elsewhere...... the cops. Are they armed with .22s. I think not. Why not? I think it has to do with putting down potential crazy people and drug frenzied wackos before they take the cop out. Sounds a lot like a home defense situation to me. Same rules and thoughts apply.

 

I agree, however I think the point of the .22 is that for those unwilling to train (like the professionals), it's the easiest to be good with. And the, it's better than nothing. I plan to pick up an LCP for my wife. In time could she handle a LC9? Probably, but she's just not that into going to the range and more into being a mom. So shots on target with a .380 is better than no hits at all.

 

My thoughts have always been, and I bet most of you agree. The best weapon for defense is going to be different for everyone. There is no one size fits all.

[Five Seasons]

I can patch holes in the drywall.  The intruder will not, however, be able to patch the 2 .45ACP holes in his chest and the one in his head.  2 in the chest and 1 in the head on each target.  Basic combat pistol training.

 

the issue is not repairing your home. It's the neighbors in an apartment or your kids sleeping in the other room. Read up on some of the FBI ballistics studies that were recently performed. They don't just use hallow points because of their expansion, but also because they do not penetrate multiple targets like a FMJ will. Some cool reading on some of the polymer HPs like Hornady critical defense too. Concept is the polymer will prevent the hollowpoint from becoming clogged and becoming a FMJ. there's a good video on the NRA website if you're a member that I can't seem to link to that actually does a good job explaining the concept

 

Edited February 27, 2014 by Belo

[cdmckane]

Are you speaking from experience?

Yes. Training helped, but seeing my family was an extremely calming factor. If I wasn't calm and focused, I wouldn't have made it home.

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[Deerthug]

first off I'm not a lawyer. this is what I've picked up on and think only. it basically goes back to case law and covering your own butt after the fact. Our Penal law basically says you can't just shoot someone because they broke into your home. You the victim must be put in a situation where deadly force or severe injury is believed to be imminent. If you can't clearly see if they have a weapon, this would instead clarify that did in fact have intentions to harm you. I think it might also be in there that you can only use deadly force if you can't readily get away. for example you might be in trouble after the fact if you were running away from an attacker outside that wasn't pursing you, then turned around and shot him/her. right now I can't quote the exact law without doing some searching.

Check my earlier post where I posted the NYS Jury instructions. There is no duty to retreat in your home. In order to use deadly force you must have a reasonable belief that you are in imminent danger and you are not the aggressor. The key word is "reasonable". But you dont have to wait to be struck, stabbed or shot first as long as you reasonably believe that you or anyone with you is in imminent danger. With that being said. My choice of home defense are my 12 ga shotguns strategically placed in my home with 00 shells at the ready. The mere sound of the action Imho would make an intruder $hit in his/her pants.

[Nomad]

l. There will be no warning from me, like Culver said, the last thing they will see is a muzzle flash. I hope it never happens.

Knowing a couple guys who had close calls with family members showing up unexpected,like my hunting partners son who came home from college in another city at 2AM. His wife woke him, " Joe someone's in the house! " ya I know nobody's kids here would do that ,that's what Joe said to.

Then there is a guy I know who shot a friend again showing up from out of town at odd hours.....

I've rethought my whole attitude about issuing a challenge .

Ya I got a Surefire light on my nightstand 24/7 plus often my work light, and I keep bright one cell tac light on me most nights,I plan on ID ing my target , but I'd rather my kid just yells Dad it's me before we get that close.

[ants]

My home defense combo is a .45 auto pistol and a 12ga, shotgun loaded with #2 bird shot.  Buck shot, slugs  or FMJ bullets will tear through walls and possibly harm non combatants. .45 hollow points and #2 bird shot will not penetrate too far. #4 works well too.

[jjb4900]

the person behind the weapon probably plays as much of a role, if not more, into successfully defending yourself than the weapon does.........

[ants]

the person behind the weapon probably plays as much of a role, if not more, into successfully defending yourself than the weapon does.........

Yes… but bigger is always better, if you can handle it. if not, the smaller stuff is way better than a broomstick.

[jjb4900]

Yes… but bigger is always better, if you can handle it. if not, the smaller stuff is way better than a broomstick.

true, but, I would think if you were giving advice to a group of people and assuming they were just buying a gun for home protection and they had no intention of practicing much, I would say shotgun, 12 or 20 won't make much difference............obviously on a board like this the answers are coming from people we assume can handle a pretty broad range of guns, so the answers will vary and probably won't be a wrong answer to be found.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Knowing a couple guys who had close calls with family members showing up unexpected,like my hunting partners son who came home from college in another city at 2AM. His wife woke him, " Joe someone's in the house! " ya I know nobody's kids here would do that ,that's what Joe said to.

Then there is a guy I know who shot a friend again showing up from out of town at odd hours.....

I've rethought my whole attitude about issuing a challenge .

Ya I got a Surefire light on my nightstand 24/7 plus often my work light, and I keep bright one cell tac light on me most nights,I plan on ID ing my target , but I'd rather my kid just yells Dad it's me before we get that close.

2 people have keys to my house other than me. They would know enough to turn lights on on their way in and announce their precense. The dog would be my first alert anyhow. Id know someone was there before they knew i was. My attitude is a bit different when the kids are here. Im not saying im gonna take pot shots in the dark, or shoot at the first noise that wakes me up lol.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

first off I'm not a lawyer. this is what I've picked up on and think only. it basically goes back to case law and covering your own butt after the fact. Our Penal law basically says you can't just shoot someone because they broke into your home. You the victim must be put in a situation where deadly force or severe injury is believed to be imminent. If you can't clearly see if they have a weapon, this would instead clarify that did in fact have intentions to harm you. I think it might also be in there that you can only use deadly force if you can't readily get away. for example you might be in trouble after the fact if you were running away from an attacker outside that wasn't pursing you, then turned around and shot him/her. right now I can't quote the exact law without doing some searching.

First. I think you are encompassing two different scenarios in your post. In your home and out of your home and are considered differently in NY law. In your house you have no duty to retreat. To use lethal force you must believe your life or others in the house is in imminent danger. There is no requirement that you see a weapon or even that they have one. You just need to believe it as any reasonable person would. The burden is not on you to prove it was justifiable. It is on the persecution to prove you weren't. A criminal breaking in could say 'you are dead'. That would be enough for a reasonable person to believe they meant it.

Out side you do have a duty to retreat with a few exceptions. Witnessing a rape is one. You can justifiably react and engage the rapist and again. No warning is required

[Hardcore]

I get the theory and it makes sense...HOWEVER...   .45 Glock is my preference....if someone enters your home/business/etc while there are people there....what the hell is going through the perpetrators mind????.....I would shoot to kill with EXTREME prejudice

 

so some thief/rapist/murderer or team of enters a home jacked up on god knows what with bad intentions...a .22 cal is not stopping them unless its a brain lights out shot. the adrenaline alone is enough to keep a wacko coming without being doped up....

 

This sounds crazy but I have witnessed two people shot with a .22....one guy was running and took a .22 LR to the back of the knee. He stumbled and kept running jumped into the back of a pick up and away he went. The bullet entered and bounced from the knee and came out about mid thigh.

 

Other guy was shot in the abdomen with a 22 pistol and described it to a hornet sting on steroids. He didnt fall down....he ran.

 

Also using a gun for home protection, in my mind a responsible owner is going to lay out potential situations ....(without a gun in hand)....imagine people entering from any door window etc to gain entry and where you would more than likely be when this occurred, what is behind the target zone??....kids bedrooms??.. just run through potential situations and not that anything would ever prepare you for an event like that but a little pre planning and awareness of your surroundings ....could make the difference

Edited February 28, 2014 by Hardcore

[jjb4900]

outside of your own home or business, I would say it's a good idea to be reasonably certain that DPF is being used or threatened against you or another person before you yourself resort to it.....I think you would find yourself in a bit of legal trouble if you witnessed a rape and just walked up behind the guy and lit him up.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

outside of your own home or business, I would say it's a good idea to be reasonably certain that DPF is being used or threatened against you or another person before you yourself resort to it.....I think you would find yourself in a bit of legal trouble if you witnessed a rape and just walked up behind the guy and lit him up.

You are wrong. Read the law

[jjb4900]

You are wrong. Read the law

you would actually have to prove it was necessary and there was no other means to terminate it, even a Police Officer couldn't just walk up behind someone doing what you described and just kill them...but if you believe that's all there is to it, I don't know what to tell you.

Edited February 28, 2014 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you would actually have to prove it was necessary, even a Police Officer couldn't walk up behind someone doing what you described and just kill them...but if you believe that's all there is to it, I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't what I believe. Read the law

[jjb4900]

It isn't what I believe. Read the law

talk to a Police Officer or a Criminal Law Prosecutor or Criminal Defense Attorney...you may find out differently, the use of DPF and the justifications for its use are not that simple.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

talk to a Police Officer or a Criminal Law Prosecutor or Criminal Defense Attorney...you may find out differently, the use of DPF and the justifications for its use are not that simple.

Currently on my phone. I will post the law for you tomorrow. I have spoken with police and defense attorneys about multiple issues including this one. DPF carries no requirement to do things like presenting yourself or giving notification in a case of rape. Contrary to what you alluded to for in home DPF also. Have you asked?

[NFA-ADK]

22 EEEK 

The 45 was developed for a reason and it is proven in battle against big determined warriors.  If you want to STOP the home invader this will work.  Base any round you get on the effectiveness of this round. 

 

I know a few people that I would be afraid to use a 22 on due to the ineffectiveness it would provide.  If it is winter and the perpetrator is wearing a few thick layers of clothes a 22 might not even penetrate.  Make no mistake home defense is defense of your life, use proper fire power to ensure your existence!  Bet my 22 LR will go through dry wall. 

 

 A 12 gauge pump action is the most distinct sound in the world of a criminal and when heard is usually followed by DONT SHOOT!  Usually you will hear I surrender or again PLEASE DONT SHOOT!  While a follow up shot might not be that easy for some, not many criminals will stick around after that cannon goes off. 

 

The other reason I do not like smaller rounds is that people tend to empty the clip.  (Spray and pray)  How many times I hear of law enforcement empty their guns in a shoot out.  Typical of some one under stress and they are suppose to be highly trained.  (No offense I understand!)  Much better off like hunting and taking one or two exact shots to end the confrontation and prevent any possible collateral damage. 

 

If I knew the person braking in was thin then maybe a 22 would work but I would not bet my life on it.

 

JMO

 

 

[jjb4900]

Currently on my phone. I will post the law for you tomorrow. I have spoken with police and defense attorneys about multiple issues including this one. DPF carries no requirement to do things like presenting yourself or giving notification in a case of rape. Contrary to what you alluded to for in home DPF also. Have you asked?

yes, I have asked...I don't know what you think I alluded to about in home DPF, but I'm pretty sure I said all bets are off when you are in your own home....no need to post the law, I have it.