Baiting for deer

[PREDATE]

That's some serious stuff Biz! Did you get to hear any vocalizations?

[BizCT]

That's some serious stuff Biz! Did you get to hear any vocalizations?

Yea just never seen one. They hit the bait everyday your not there. Guides even use all special oils and scents to mask themselves when putting out etc. just super wary animals. Probably rather starve to death than come into a suspicious bait. You'll see tons of coyotes before a wolf ever comes in.

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[PREDATE]

Damn coons, opossum, and skunks! What a bunch of cob gobblers!

Edited September 5, 2014 by PREDATE

[PREDATE]

Yea just never seen one. They hit the bait everyday your not there. Guides even use all special oils and scents to mask themselves when putting out etc. just super wary animals. Probably rather starve to death than come into a suspicious bait. You'll see tons of coyotes before a wolf ever comes in.

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Sounds awesome! Gotta love hunting the hunters!

[Doc]

Fair enough, we all should have our standards, provided they are within the limits of the law. Again, like MANY of these discussions, nobody really winds up as winner of the debate club contest, and we wind up just being more separated, rather than united against those who want to take away our guns & hunting privileges. 

This is a sentiment that keeps coming up anytime we discuss just about anything that has to do with hunting. Is the hunting community so fragile that we cannot discuss those things that we disagree on? Are hunters so tender that we have to hide how we feel about various issues? Is it necessary that we all walk in lock-step like a bunch of mind-numbed robots because we are incapable of having serious discussions involving hunting ethics and issues? I don't see stifling opinions as any kind of display of solidarity or strength. I see it as a weakness that we had better get over.

[GreeneHunter]

IMO   I believe baiting takes hunting out of hunting .... like lurking said its no longer hunting its shooting !  Where would the thrill be if I had a pile of apples (or whatever) to shoot over ? I enjoy wondering where they will be coming from !

[Uncle Nicky]

This is a sentiment that keeps coming up anytime we discuss just about anything that has to do with hunting. Is the hunting community so fragile that we cannot discuss those things that we disagree on? Are hunters so tender that we have to hide how we feel about various issues?

Some are, some aren't. Personally, I try to avoid controversy; at any given day, I have neighbors, co-workers, kids, and a wife who'd love to upset my serenity, if I decide to empower them.

 

In all reality, after this topic goes away, very few of us will have changed our minds about baiting (I know I won't). It just makes us looks like a bunch of bickering children in the sandbox, is this the impression we want to give to the non-hunting crowd? (Forget the antis, they're probably just laughing).

 

My first post on this topic said I'm not affected by what anyone else says about how I hunt, or what weapons I use, provided it's all legal. What does strike a sour note with me is someone who condemns a practice or weapon based on principle alone, with absolutely no real knowledge of what they are talking about, or any firsthand experience. Pretty elitist AND narrow minded, if anyone wants my opinion (and you must, or you wouldn't have started the topic). Again, the "I never" crowd is pretty quick to change their tune once a new weapon or practice becomes legal, at least in my experience this has proven true.

 

Last thought, and that is....take a lesson from the NRA. In numbers, we remain strong. If we branch off into little sects because our egos tell us we are "better" hunters based on the weapon or method we use, then we become weak.

 

Anyway, the only "real hunter" I'm impressed with is a guy who can kill a deer from the ground with a rock. Do that, and you will get my admiration.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Uncle Nicky

[Doc]

When the day comes that we are not mature enough or self-confident enough to discuss some of hunting's more thorny problems and disagreements, then I will know that all of the passion has gone out of the sport. When we cower in the corner fearing to express ourselves and think that we should engage in our hunting with a muzzle on, then we really are in trouble. Discussion and exchange of opinions and ideas are all part of what internet forums are all about. If we cower and cringe from doing that then we might as well just fold up shop. Frankly, I am interested in what other hunters think (whether I agree with them or not) and that is why I started this thread.

[Uncle Nicky]

^{Most of the country (especially in the more populated northern states) doesn't hunt. Like it or not, THESE are the people we have to impress, not each other.}  

 

^{I'm not ashamed of who I am, what I do, or how I hunt. Here in the suburbs, I'm looked at as a square peg by most of my neighbors & co-workers, but Jimmy Crack Corn, and I don't care. But I do know who is an anti, who's a supporter, and who's on the fence, and try to avoid forcing my passion on them, same as I would religion or politics. It IS a touchy subject.}

 

^{Avoiding debates on conflicting ideas has nothing to do with confidence, or maturity. Actually, knowing when and when not to present your argument in an intelligent fashion is the sign of a mature, self-confident  person. Starting threads that you know will lead to controversy rings of a guy who has a little too much time on his hands, and wants to beat his chest in Tred Barta fashion that he does things "the hard way".}

 

^{Now, go get the last word in Doc. Uncle Nicky is signing out.}

[steve863]

I've always been of the opinion that food plots are no different than putting out a pile of corn or apples.  In my mind it's baiting just like anything else.  Most hunters use the excuse that they are helping the deer with food plots, but that's honestly BS.  I guess it makes them feel good to think that.  If it weren't for the hunting, they'd never spend the time and money to put out food plots.  How many non-hunters put out food plots for deer?  I haven't heard of any.

 

With all that said, I could care less if people choose to hunt over food plots or bait where legal.  Doesn't make much difference in the scheme of things.  I surely wouldn't waste my time with either, since I have been successful enough without it, but if plots or bait make people think they will have more success, they can knock themselves out putting the stuff out.

 

 

 

[Doc]

 

^{Now, go get the last word in Doc. Uncle Nicky is signing out.}

Ok, I will. I explained my motives for starting this thread. If you don't accept that then that's on you.

[jjb4900]

my guess is that baiting is much like crossbows, there will be many who fight it every step of the way and condemn that method until it passes as law........then eventually they will slowly and quietly accept it, and quite possibly using it. 

[Doc]

I've always been of the opinion that food plots are no different than putting out a pile of corn or apples.  In my mind it's baiting just like anything else.  Most hunters use the excuse that they are helping the deer with food plots, but that's honestly BS.  I guess it makes them feel good to think that.  If it weren't for the hunting, they'd never spend the time and money to put out food plots.  How many non-hunters put out food plots for deer?  I haven't heard of any.

 

With all that said, I could care less if people choose to hunt over food plots or bait where legal.  Doesn't make much difference in the scheme of things.  I surely wouldn't waste my time with either, since I have been successful enough without it, but if plots or bait make people think they will have more success, they can knock themselves out putting the stuff out.

I was hoping that food plots would not get too involved in this thread, but I can certainly see the connection in terms of motivation. But basically that's probably good for another topic. At any rate, I've got to say that I hold basically the same opinion on both practices. I may believe that it doesn't fit in with anything that I ever want to be associated with, but it's not something I am going to get all militant about.....lol. However, I can see where these practices might interfere with my own personal hunting. I might not see that as a very friendly development....lol. I could see where I might get a bit testy if I had a neighbor actively engaging in a campaign to draw deer from my property on to theirs.

[Doc]

my guess is that baiting is much like crossbows, there will be many who fight it every step of the way and condemn that method until it passes as law........then eventually they will slowly and quietly accept it, and quite possibly using it. 

Or not........lol.

[abuckn6does]

my guess is that baiting is much like crossbows, there will be many who fight it every step of the way and condemn that method until it passes as law........then eventually they will slowly and quietly accept it, and quite possibly using it. 

 

+1

 

And the best part is we have the freedom to not do it also.

[jrm]

This is a sentiment that keeps coming up anytime we discuss just about anything that has to do with hunting. Is the hunting community so fragile that we cannot discuss those things that we disagree on? Are hunters so tender that we have to hide how we feel about various issues? Is it necessary that we all walk in lock-step like a bunch of mind-numbed robots because we are incapable of having serious discussions involving hunting ethics and issues? I don't see stifling opinions as any kind of display of solidarity or strength. I see it as a weakness that we had better get over.

 

 

I personally do not like framing the baiting question as being either right or wrong. I don't think it comes out to be that easy because of all the different cultural and heritage variations and even geographical variations. The quickest way for a discussion to get ugly real fast is to try to impose our versions of right and wrong on others.

 

<snip>

 

I will also admit to not having a lot of respect for hunting accomplishments that make use of shortcuts, but I do tend to keep that kind of judgment to myself.

 

 

Doc,

 

With all due respect, I think you answered your own question.

 

There is nothing wrong with disagreement. I think a big part of the problem is that people have no respect for anyone else's opinion. 

 

Your earlier post claims that you don't like framing the question as "right or wrong." Then you end the same post implying that baiting is a shortcut and stating you don't have respect for those that use a shortcut. In other words, you framed the question as right or wrong and then told at least some people they are wrong.

 

While more subtle than most situations, I am sure you can see how some folks might take that personally - or at least feel like they need to defend their position.

 

It is fine to disagree, but solidarity comes from having respect for someone else's opinion.

 

From the posts in this thread, there are apparently people who have no problem with baiting, others who do and some who see it as no different from food plots (for good or ill). None of those people are "wrong" - none of them are "not real hunters." 

 

If someone baits, it doesn't stop you from not baiting and vis a versa. (Of course, it is not legal in NY - we are talking about the concept in general, applied where legal).

 

Where all these types of discussions seem to fall apart (with any topic on any internet forum) is when that difference of opinion turns into a real or perceived value judgement or personal attack - you are dumb/unethical/immoral/etc.

 

The fact that most people seem to be functionally illiterate (see how easy it is to make a comment that some could take offense at) combined with the fact that it is difficult to convey meaning usually done through body language only makes matter worse.

Edited September 5, 2014 by jrm

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Doc,

 

With all due respect, I think you answered your own question.

 

There is nothing wrong with disagreement. I think a big part of the problem is that people have no respect for anyone else's opinion. 

 

Your earlier post claims that you don't like framing the question as "right or wrong." Then you end the same post implying that baiting is a shortcut and stating you don't have respect for those that use a shortcut. In other words, you framed the question as right or wrong and then told at least some people they are wrong.

 

While more subtle than most situations, I am sure you can see how some folks might take that personally - or at least feel like they need to defend their position.

 

It is fine to disagree, but solidarity comes from having respect for someone else's opinion.

 

From the posts in this thread, there are apparently people who have no problem with baiting, others who do and some who see it as no different from food plots (for good or ill). None of those people are "wrong" - none of them are "not real hunters." 

 

If someone baits, it doesn't stop you from not baiting and vis a versa. (Of course, it is not legal in NY - we are talking about the concept in general, applied where legal).

 

Where all these types of discussions seem to fall apart (with any topic on any internet forum) is when that difference of opinion turns into a real or perceived value judgement or personal attack - you are dumb/unethical/immoral/etc.

 

The fact that most people seem to be functionally illiterate (see how easy it is to make a comment that some could take offense at) combined with the fact that it is difficult to convey meaning usually done through body language only makes matter worse.

Good post. Some like to do just what you said post after post. Not hard to see!

[HUNTINGS IN MY DNA]

Forget baiting..... hunters need to start creating food plots growing nutrition for bigger deer simple as that you can create bedding areas and food plots to keep the deer on your property

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[HUNTINGS IN MY DNA]

I will stick to food plots and using my chainsaw for feed!! I never understood people who go bear hunting and sit over a pile of crap waiting for a hungry bear.

ive been all over from ny to Maine bears have such a sick sence of smell the can smell up to couple miles unless your luck is great there are only two ways to hunt black bears and that with dogs or bait !

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[PREDATE]

I think the bears should remain wild in NYS. If you start feeding them table scraps, they're gonna become a nuisance in every suburban neighborhood. Do you really want to feel like you need to walk your kids to the bus every morning with the .45 on your side because the coyotes & bear are used to eating people food?

[Five Seasons]

I bait coyotes every year. My favorite time to do so is on the coldest nights. I'm talkin sub zero and beyond. I sit for hours in a treestand and strain my eyes in the darkness to catch a glimpse of movement against the snowy backdrop. If you think you have the constitution to do that, try it and tell me it's not hunting.

 

so because it's really cold it makes it more hunting than early archery in the 70* temp?

 

[Five Seasons]

When the day comes that we are not mature enough or self-confident enough to discuss some of hunting's more thorny problems and disagreements, then I will know that all of the passion has gone out of the sport. When we cower in the corner fearing to express ourselves and think that we should engage in our hunting with a muzzle on, then we really are in trouble. Discussion and exchange of opinions and ideas are all part of what internet forums are all about. If we cower and cringe from doing that then we might as well just fold up shop. Frankly, I am interested in what other hunters think (whether I agree with them or not) and that is why I started this thread.

 

spot on. this debate has been pretty healthy considering some of this boards history. Some strong opinions, facts and ideas without personal attack. There's nothing wrong with discussing a controversial topic.

[BizCT]

so because it's really cold it makes it more hunting than early archery in the 70* temp?

 

 

I think we can all agree it is much harder to shoot any coyote over bait than any deer over bait.

[orion]

We all use tools for hunting. Thinking that using some tools instead of others makes it not hunting is ridiculous. Some bait, hunt over foodplots with high power rifles, some use crossbows compounds or stickbows. Some use scents, scent eliminators, camo, treestands blinds. Sights, scopes, releases, rangefinders the list goes on.......... they are all tools.

 

Thinking you hunt and someone else doesnt because of there methods or there tools is stupid.

 

Remember odds are some does it more basic then you and probably thinks little of your hunting ability!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Forget baiting..... hunters need to start creating food plots growing nutrition for bigger deer simple as that you can create bedding areas and food plots to keep the deer on your property

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So do the guys down' in the city try this in Central Park? Let's face it. Not every hunter in NY has access to property that they can place plots on.