Sundown

[growalot]

I mentioned this last year or year before...guy we know shoots his deer and comes out of the woods to get to truck...there stands a DEC officer....you shoot a few minutes ago ...yes...it was after sunrise and he gets a ticket....something like 5 or 10 mins...had to go to Conesus court to answer ticket...infact I won't put the name on line but PM a member here that just might know him...ya know...because "I make things up" ...lol

Edited November 12, 2014 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 I have to say...that all depends on agancies called...ie...DEC. Sherriffs, State troopers.

 Then it depends on what justice or Judge you go up infront of...IE...We have a justice that had to sell his land in another township...because he could'nt handle the trespassing hassel any longer...That was straight from his mouth to me...when I asked him to talk to his business partner about trespassing on me and to stiffen up fines in the area...regardless when land owners push..... it is the law

I have to disagree. I can pull it up and repost it. if it isn't legally posted there  MUST be a warning given and it would have to be documented. It spells it out. The only gray area is the definition of improved or unimproved property.

[growalot]

 

 

NY State no trespassing?

 

Two friends and I were out taking some photos of this abandoned building when a police officer approached us and notified us that we were trespassing. The thing is the property does not have signage. There is a no trespassing sign on one gate. Then down the road 1000ft there is another gate with a no trespassing signs in between. Since we entered the property via the area in between we did not see the signs. Should I attempt to plea not guilty and explain to the judge the lack of signage. In NY state you are required to place a numerous amount of signs around the perimeter.

What to do?

 

 

 

Question: Can I be arrested for trespass if I didn't see any posted signs?

Answer: Yes. Your hunting license does not give you the right to trespass on private property. It is your responsibility to find out who the land owner is and ask their permission whether the property is posted or not. The New York State Penal Law makes it an offense to enter any land without permission.

Question: If a property is not posted, does that mean I can hunt there?

Answer: All property is owned by somebody. The lack of posted signs, fences or other man made objects does not imply that you may enter to hunt, fish or trap. It is your responsibility to obtain permission to enter private lands or waters. Public lands and waters may or may not have restrictions that can be found by contacting the municipality owning the lands.

Question: If I shoot a deer and it runs onto posted property, do I have the legal right to go on the property to retrieve it?

Answer: No. You should locate the landowner, explain the situation, and ask permission. If the landowner refuses, the hunter will not be able to enter the property. The DEC cannot compel a landowner to grant access. If the hunter has reason to believe that the landowner intends to illegally possess the deer, it should be reported to the nearest Environmental Conservation Officer.

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by growalot

[growalot]

So this got way off track..but funny it happened for the State troopers just barreled up our road and stopped on next road then slowly backed up...I had spotted one of the lease guys going down same road very slowly a little bit ago...now everyone around here has had it with their unlawful hunting...but my neighbor is beside themselves with it...I have a feeling someone just got caught doing something wrong...I actually hope..it may make guns season less stressful...if you recall my posts from last year...any how they will never call DEC or Sheriffs  when dealing with them, State troopers only....I'll have to make a call later..lol So the fun begins

[Culvercreek hunt club]

a person who enters [remains] upon
unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced
nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude
intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against
trespass is personally communicated to such person by the owner
of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is
given by posting in a conspicuous manner.8]

[growalot]

I suppose you need to tell that to the ppl in post #129 that were asking how to fight their trespassing ticket on unposted land .....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I suppose you need to tell that to the ppl in post #129 that were asking how to fight their trespassing ticket on unposted land .....

Like anything else, Tickets can be written. Getting charged and getting convicted are two distinct things. In the end, you may win but considering the cost and aggravation I can't see it being worth it. But some people just can't seem to help themselves.

[growalot]

out of likes...like

[Curmudgeon]

I think I better calibrate the sundial on my tree stand.

[jrm]

I suppose you need to tell that to the ppl in post #129 that were asking how to fight their trespassing ticket on unposted land .....

 

Post #129 (which is a quote of another post) tells a different story.

 

1. Taking pictures of an abandoned building: The building likely qualifies the land as "improved" so no posting is necessary.

2. Post indicates a sign on one gate, with another gate 1000' away and a second sign i nbetween. 

  a) Gates themselves indicate improved property, thus no posting is necessary

  with the second sign in between gates that are 1000' apart, the signs would seem to be within 660' of each other. That makes the land properly posted.

 

Based on what was written, there seems to be trespass on land that is both properly posted and improved. 

 

The question is, why was the ticket written? From what the local Sheriff's department told me and a neighbor, the only one who can make a trespass complaint is the property owner. Found this out when my neighbor called for some people trespassing on my (improved) property. On the surface, it seems likely that the property owner called in a complaint.

 

I don't get it. Someone sees a property with two gates and a building, but thinks "it doesn't belong to anyone" so it is okay todo whatever you want as long as you enter between the gates?

Edited November 12, 2014 by jrm

[fasteddie]

Uhhhhhhh , it could be a "Gated Community" .....

[jjb4900]

I don't understand how anyone could feel comfortable hunting or going onto land that isn't public land or land that they don't have unquestionable permission to be on. Someone other than the property owner can be given the authority to enforce trespassing laws....

[jjb4900]

Like anything else, Tickets can be written. Getting charged and getting convicted are two distinct things. In the end, you may win but considering the cost and aggravation I can't see it being worth it. But some people just can't seem to help themselves.

In many cases, if you get arrested for something, the arrest itself usually remains on your record......the outcome may not be what the original charge was for, but the arrest stays on your record nonetheless........some people will risk anything to get a deer, they ain't worth it as far as I'm concerned.

[growalot]

JRM...I duly stand corrected.... I misread that sentance and left out the "a" before no tresspassing sign ...making it there was no trespassing sign ...in stead of there was a trespassing sign...my bad ...thanks for the correction

[Five Seasons]

I hunt with xbow. It was Saturday, 11/8. As My Dad and I pulled into the driveway of the property we hunt at 530am, an 8 pointer (that we have several trail cam pics of) was standing on the property we hunt. I could have easily shot it with my xbow. Being that legal shooting time that day was around 630am, I did not shoot and hoped to see it later in the day (which I never did).  Yes, Belo. I had a clear shot. All I had to do was shoot illegally over an hour before legal light.

 

an hour is not what I was saying the rule should be. it should be 30 min before and after like every other state. And your story sounds like you were still in the truck. that's illegal and not a good rule. Shooting in the dark by way of a barn light is not legal or ethical either.

 

I stand by my statement. If you can see, if it's ethical and safe then let the arrow fly.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

Here we go again Belo as usual because I disagree and state why..... you go into an attack mode and bring out........ If what you tell us is true.....Lol your so predictable..again too many ppl know who I am on here for me to lie about anything...

Now  try to justify what you say and I do believe you have no problem picking and choosing what NYSDEC laws to abide by as if they were on an a'la carte menue...but illegal is illlegal period...Now the OP was about staying after legal hours with an implication that doing so implied hunting as well....We all know most of us go in before and in the most part leave after dark...as long as we are not shooting at deer it is legal to do so. Just because another state does something different  DOES NOT mean it invalidates the laws in the state you live in. I for one do not want to encourage young hunters in doing the same as you by not  saying YOU ARE WRONG

 

I never said you were wrong or attacked you grow. But you have a least 4 stories of being shot at, giant branches falling on, falling pn you and ducking for cover. You either A. Hunt some very unsafe land or B. Have some pretty bad luck. I've been hunting only 15 years but have never had the kind of war zone stories happen to me that happen to you.

 

Don't take this argument personal. There are some dumb ass laws in this state. Laws are laws of course. Dont forget the safe act is the law so please be a goodie two shoes and follow it.

 

I will stick by my guns and disagree with there being any danger to shooting an animal within 30 minutes of legal light or 30 minutes after.

 

 

 

To me those that hunt to the minute and not one second over/under are a lot like Leprechauns,Bigfoots and Mountain Lions in NYS. A mythical creature I've read about yet have never seen in the wild.

 

don't call growie those names. she sets her timer.

 

Edited November 12, 2014 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

I kinda admire those who would not shoot the biggest buck of their lives as it stood under their stand 2 minutes Before legal light.

I just wish they'd move out of the left lane while their cruise is set right at 55 because the rest of us are doing 65 and the Troopers don't even look up from playing Flappy Bird.

 

Amen brother.

 

hey guys what do you do if you shoot a deer before it gets dark. Then when you approach it in the dark it's not dead but suffering. It's illegal to put him down right? I mean... that's poaching and not fair and dangerous.

 

and just to clear the record for those in disagreement, the above situation is the only time I've personally been in this position. So while you may disagree with my opinion, I am not "a poacher".

Edited November 12, 2014 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

yeah.. you kind of won't see the harm until you get caught... then I'm thinkin' the fine and loss of license might hurt just a little... but then again if someone will shoot a deer before or after legal shooting time, I'm sure not having a license won't stop them either.

 

The problem will always be that no matter what time frame is established by the DEC... there will always be those that will try to push the envelope... 30 minutes after sunset turns into 35 and so on...

 

I disagree. We're talking safety versus legality. It's the ethical versus legal argument. Overwhelmingly people in this thread have agreed if the shot is safe they would take it. I believe myself and most of those who agree would not take that shot when it's unsafe. I've been in those shoes. 2 minutes in the stand and grunting below me. Can only make out the body of the deer and not the rack. We all know some guys who would take the shot anyhow. These same guys don't tag and probably bait. DO NOT lump a guy who shoots a few minutes before legal light in with that lot.

[Five Seasons]

I'm just wondering if anyone knows anyone that ever received a ticket for shooting before or after hours???

 

i dont know hardly anyone who has ever received a ticket for anything. the DEC is too understaffed. It's a joke and honestly it hurts us all. It'd be hard to prove a bow kill was illegal anyhow. how can the LEO prove it? A lot of us retrieve our deer in the dark when we hunt afternoons.

[nyantler]

I disagree. We're talking safety versus legality. It's the ethical versus legal argument. Overwhelmingly people in this thread have agreed if the shot is safe they would take it. I believe myself and most of those who agree would not take that shot when it's unsafe. I've been in those shoes. 2 minutes in the stand and grunting below me. Can only make out the body of the deer and not the rack. We all know some guys who would take the shot anyhow. These same guys don't tag and probably bait. DO NOT lump a guy who shoots a few minutes before legal light in with that lot.

I didn't say guys didn't do it... I'm sure lots of guys do it.. that is not an excuse for the law... safety or no safety... if you are doing it illegally then you are also being unethical... ethics talks to integrity... a person that knowingly breaks the law has no integrity... therefore no ethics.. tagging, baiting, and shooting a deer outside of legal shooting time are the same thing... illegal... if you need to cheat in order to get a deer you are no hunter IMO. It will always be wrong unless the law is changed... until then you are poaching, not hunting. If someone is stupid enough to risk a fine and/or loss of their license they get what they get.

 

Even if you don't get caught.. you know you did it... and I'm sure that detail would be left out of the story. Not a deer to be proud of...

Edited November 12, 2014 by nyantler

[Five Seasons]

Again I will disagree. Ethics and legality are not the same thing. There are many many laws in this country and others that are unjust, racist, sexist and biased. So because some man decided them to be law we are unethical for not following them?

If I own an unregistered assault rifle in NY I'm now an unethical gun owner because one guy said it so?

Edited November 13, 2014 by Belo

[DirtTime]

Again I will disagree. Ethics and legality are not the same thing. There are many many laws in this country and others that are unjust, racist, sexist and biased. So because some man decided them to be law we are unethical for not following them?

If I own an unregistered assault rifle in NY I'm now an unethical gun owner because one guy said it so?

 

Not in the least! It makes you a very ethical felon. LOL!

[jjb4900]

people push the boundaries of the law with hopes of not getting caught on a daily basis no matter what it may be, speeding, cell phone usage while driving, rolling through stop signs, trying to beat red lights, you name it...more lives have been changed forever by people breaking the vehicle and traffic law then all hunting violations combined. It's all the same, and for those who break all the other petty laws, but chastise another for doing the same on another, I say stop and take a look in the mirror before taking on a holier than thou attitude. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by jjb4900

[incognito]

I think another factor to consider before taking that early or late shot is the expectations of others who maybe in your vicinity unknown to you after sundown and the risks to their safety.

[nyantler]

Again I will disagree. Ethics and legality are not the same thing. There are many many laws in this country and others that are unjust, racist, sexist and biased. So because some man decided them to be law we are unethical for not following them?

If I own an unregistered assault rifle in NY I'm now an unethical gun owner because one guy said it so?

We aren't taking about assault rifles.. we're taking about not abiding by a long time established designation of when you can legally kill an animal.. set as a way of insuring the safety of ALL hunters without any ambiguity... justifying breaking that established time frame because you don't like it shows a lack of integrity and ethics... we're not talking about racism, sexism or bias in this case... or even a conspiracy by the DEC to keep you from killing a deer... it is simply a way to make sure that nobody pushes the envelope by hunting until THEY think it is too dark... the law ensures that there is ample light for EVERYONE not just you or any other guy that wants to create his own limits... killing a deer is not so important, nor so hard, that anyone needs to hunt beyond the establish time frame... it's so simple... the start a quit times are given to us to the minute... I would be all for a half hour before sunrise and after sunset, but I would like it to be that you have to be out of the woods and back to your camp, home, or vehicle by then... I bet you would see many more after legal hunting tickets given out then. But, I can see we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one.

 

To answer your question... no, you would not be an unethical hunter if you owned an unregistered assault rifle because you don't have to be a hunter to own an assault rifle... but you would be a criminal... like it or not. I'm sure there are gang members that have all kinds of illegal weapons and wish the laws were different as well.

 

Ethics, by definition is an area of study that deals with ideas about what is good and bad behavior... breaking the law is bad behavior... that makes shooting a deer outside of legal shooting time bad behavior.. hence it is unethical

Edited November 13, 2014 by nyantler