Disturbing article in NY Outdoor News

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes and does that not drive home the point when it was a seasoned fire arms instructor. Parents that could not look at a child that age ...BTW ever look at an 8 yr. olds arms and shoulders?, and see the inherent danger. Sure probably done it hundreds of times...but how ever it happened it only took once, perhaps one time the "student" didn't listen or thought they knew it all after one talk...

 

It drives home the point you shouldnt let an 8 year old shoot an Uzi on full auto. Thats all. Nothing to do with letting a kid shoot a firearm, supervised, that they can handle. You are picking 1 extreme situation as an example.

[phade]

Actually, if you stop cherry picking words out of comments, the stop sign and bb gun references are 100% valid in the discussion.

 

Precisely. 

 

Blindly following all laws leads to some pretty bad stuff. 99.999999999999999999999% of laws are reasonable. When they're not reasonable, what is to be done?

 

Pretty clearly, you can't break that law, according to the naysayers here. Yet, Grow admitted to breaking a law/reg, Steve admitted that shooting a deer after legal time wasn't a big deal, and as holier than thou NYAntler and Doc try to imply they haven't, I'm willing to wager they've broken a law/reg, intentionally or not (ignorance is no excuse).

 

Thus, we have people who broke laws or admitted they will break laws poo-pooing those who do admit they've broken some laws (reasonable or not, intentionally or not), that they are going to be the downfall of society, because now they are bad parents. Its OK to break laws you are fine breaking, but break one that involves a deer because it is a pet peeve and that person is the downfall of society.

 

I can't say this enough again, The parent of the article is an asshat. He did wrong. He went really overboard using another's tag, and posting on FB. Bad situation. I think my impression would be slightly different had his son shot the deer, the deer was tagged by dad, and no asshattery was involved. Or, maybe he was trying to start some discussion on it for something he believed in since other states allow the age to hunt. Legally wrong still? Yep. Is he fostering the next Jeffrey Dahlmer? No, I don't think so. Maybe he's raising the next great hunting activist who finds a passion for making hunting better somehow? Can't be, because Steve thinks this kid is destined to be the anti-christ. Would I donate to the guy's crowdfunding? No, but some people did. Maybe there are alot of people who believe the age should be changed and they want to use this as a way to get attention on the topic. Bad way to inolve a kid in it? Yep. Effective? Possibly.

Edited January 13, 2015 by phade

[growalot]

Culver what your saying is she was...supervised...not told go out to the back forty and shoot stumps or what ever. I am betting and don't usually but, betting you weren't saying  "now  honey you really shouldn't do this or that...it's dangerous...but hey while I'm here go on ahead it won't hurt anything."

Brings to mind my safty course...that told of a young legal hunter  with I think their

Dad...shot across a small gully...missed target hit rock..... 22 bullet came back and hit either them or their Dad ,someone died...Can't recall which. Zillion to one yep..... but I'm sure has happened more than once some where out there...with out such drastic results...very least someone was out there with them, had it not gone that wrong...

[phade]

Culver what your saying is she was...supervised...not told go out to the back forty and shoot stumps or what ever. I am betting and don't usually but, betting you weren't saying  "now  honey you really shouldn't do this or that...it's dangerous...but hey while I'm here go on ahead it won't hurt anything."

Brings to mind my safty course...that told of a young legal hunter  with I think their

Dad...shot across a small gully...missed target hit rock..... 22 bullet came back and hit either them or their Dad ,someone died...Can't recall which. Zillion to one yep..... but I'm sure has happened more than once some where out there...with out such drastic results...very least someone was out there with them, had it not gone that wrong...

 

Grow as much as I understand you are trying to prove a point, but statisical improbabilities like that don't prove much. It proves that you can get hit by lightening or attacked by a shark, or whatever other oddity in this world may result in one's demise. Same thing with the instructor - he let a girl with a frame that should not have shot that gun. Bad call on his part and he paid a price for it. That one incident got alot of publicity, yet none of the other times when a child is properly supervised shoots a gun without issue. One kid in millions. Statistically, its irrelevant (not the life itself, but the data).

[cptjack]

I Find the bush people of Alaska disturbing  ,Frauds ,poachers ,thieves  ,to name a few

[growalot]

Well I got distracted and didn't finish that ...Yes adult supervision and at least one Professional...and they could not make a reasonable decision in that case...how do you expect a child to be unsupervised with a weapon at that age to make better decisions then those adults. When looking at it that way, not extreme.  Because anyone that thinks a 8 yr old should be out by themselves with even a BB gun  is as incompetent as those adults were. I'll also say many ppl that think it's OK, would also have said 8 yr olds shooting oozies or what ever, is a cool thing...until that one time...split second...Then their tunes would change. I don't believe ppls actions should always be monitored on hind sight only...human nature needs to be a guide and on a mental level. Young human nature and maturity dictates required supervision.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If we took into account all possibilities for something going wrong we might as well not leave the house. Well maybe that wouldn't even work with all the dangers in a home.

 

Don't get me wrong guys. I am with Phade on what this Dad did being totally stupid. But maybe Steve is right. With Dad letting me shoot that squirrel, maybe it is his fault I have turned into the wild outlaw that I am...lol.

 

I do know one thing and this I can sleep very well knowing. When my daughter turns 21 and has her CC permit. I will know that she can handle a firearms and stands a very good  chance at protecting herself. She won't hunt, but loves to shoot. Maybe I should have had her take a squirrel before she had a chance to watch Bambi.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well I got distracted and didn't finish that ...Yes adult supervision and at least one Professional...and they could not make a reasonable decision in that case...how do you expect a child to be unsupervised with a weapon at that age to make better decisions then those adults. When looking at it that way, not extreme.  Because anyone that thinks a 8 yr old should be out by themselves with even a BB gun  is as incompetent as those adults were. I'll also say many ppl that think it's OK, would also have said 8 yr olds shooting oozies or what ever, is a cool thing...until that one time...split second...Then their tunes would change. I don't believe ppls actions should always be monitored on hind sight only...human nature needs to be a guide and on a mental level. Young human nature and maturity dictates required supervision.

Who has said ANYTHING about a child unsupervised? The law is under 12 can't even do it supervised.

[growalot]

BTW...I have discussed some of this years threads with ppl and the reactions have been pretty poor...and I say that with a lot of relief to say the least...I once thought that if I ever decided to lease out the place when I no longer want to hunt it would be a good thing...Nope I and several other hunters have talked and I'll bet once more ...we are not the only ones. Will never allow hunters other than family on our lands...for These post have opened eyes on several ppls true ideas on hunting that we would never have thought a year ago......in all honesty...I wish the forum would get off hunting for a while...chat up some hockey or basket ball  as hunters we'd all be better off...JMO

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot

[growalot]

 

Students 11 to 16-years old must have a signed permission slip (PDF) (54 KB) from a parent or legal guardian to allow for the handling and shooting of a firearm during this course.

 

Culver we may be talking two different post here...The one you Quoted I was refering to the fact a certain person talked about ppl letting  kids shoot air guns and BB guns unsupervised....

 

This has to do with the written law then as the above quote shows their DEC law under that provision having yet a different age and I believe the law actually says a hunting certificate needs to have been issued first ..even with supervision at age 12... Now the above quote I just made shows this is before any certifications have ever been passed....I can say it's nit picky but the point... they write these laws half a$$ed...again kids should be able to shoot at a range SUPERVISED.

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot

[phade]

BTW...I have discussed some of this years threads with ppl and the reactions have been pretty poor...and I say that with a lot of releif to say the least...I once thought that if I ever decided to lease out the place when I no longer want to hunt it would be a good thing...Nope I and several other hunters have talked and I'll bet once more ...we are not the only ones. Will never allow hunters other than family on our lands...for These post have opened eyes on several ppls true ideas on hunting that we would never have thought a year ago......in all honesty...I wish the forum would get off hunting for a while...chat up some hockey or basket ball  as hunters we'd all be better off...JMO

 

So, the sky is falling because you think me (presumably) and others have what true ideas on hunting? Do tell, so I can understand.

[growalot]

So Phade since this has been running through my mind the last couple of days you have been posting  I'll tell you.

I truely wish I could point you toward some relief for the  pseudo "time of the month " or male menopause you seem to be having...it could possible temper your posts...but Saddly I can't, so I won't engage you further...at least until I think it's past...Good Luck with that

[phade]

So Phade since this has been running through my mind the last couple of days you have been posting  I'll tell you.

I truely wish I could point you toward some relief for the  pseudo "time of the month " or male menopause you seem to be having...it could possible temper your posts...but Saddly I can't, so I won't engage you further...at least until I think it's past...Good Luck with that

 

Just because we have differing views you accuse me of having male menopause? Pretty crummy Grow. You should be ashamed of yourself. Good thing I have my big boy pants on.

 

I suspect if I made some comment to you about your biological clock/system, you'd be in an uproar to the Nth degree, but I digress.

Edited January 13, 2015 by phade

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Culver we may be talking two different post here...The one you Quoted I was refering to the fact a certain person talked about ppl letting  kids shoot air guns and BB guns unsupervised....

 

This has to do with the written law then as the above quote shows their DEC law under that provision having yet a different age and I believe the law actually says a hunting certificate needs to have been issued first ..even with supervision at age 12... Now the above quote I just made shows this is before any certifications have ever been passed....I can say it's nit picky but the point... they write these laws half a$$ed...again kids should be able to shoot at a range SUPERVISED.

Yeah, they can't even get their laws consistent between Penal and En Con law. Here is one that will blow your mind. I can take my daughter pistol shooting when she is 20 years and 364 days old but on her 21st birthday I can no longer legally allow her to touch my pistol unless she has a permit. ....and my guns are on it. Heck if you have a bunch of buddies out shooting together and you want to try their new pistol.,..NOPE.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I Find the bush people of Alaska disturbing  ,Frauds ,poachers ,thieves  ,to name a few

Did they get arrested for something?

 

What is with that accent anyways? I find that disturbing...lol

[growalot]

Well one last thing..Nope,,,I fully imbrace the fact that I could a a snarly nasty beouch during that time and well menepause...you'd best keep a fan on or a window open or someone other than I was going to feel the heat...thankfully for all..... been there done that over and out...but you do know ..there is such a thing as male menepause hey I'm just saying ...

I also have done some things in my life.... I probably could be a shamed of...but those are tales between me and the "porcelain throne'' as it were....telling you my honest thoughts on your apparent state of mind in posts lately..hhmmmm...nope no where on my list...so don't give it another thought....

Edited January 13, 2015 by growalot

[jjb4900]

looking at that whole BB gun thing made me think of paintball guns, same thing technically, no? so I found a local paintball place and checked their age restrictions.....they allow 10 and up, just find that interesting and threw it out there for no particular reason...

Edited January 13, 2015 by jjb4900

[stoneam2006]

looking at that whole BB gun thing made me think of paintball guns, same thing technically, no? so I found a local paintball place and checked their age restrictions.....they allow 10 and up, just find that interesting and threw it out there for no particular reason...

Wow that's come down sence I played was 14 when I played...in tourneys anyway

[steve863]

I always wondered why they called it "menstruate".  Does it somehow keep men "straight" since their wives are off limits for a few days?  As in men trying to be good during the menstruation days anticipating what's to come afterwards.  Or maybe the "straight" part means that the men will be driven into a "straight" jacket during this time of the month??  I reckon it's one or the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I always wondered why they called it "menstruate".  Does it somehow keep men "straight" since their wives are off limits for a few days?  As in men trying to be good during the menstruation days anticipating what's to come afterwards.  Or maybe the "straight" part means that the men will be driven into a "straight" jacket during this time of the month??  I reckon it's one or the other.

Or we are just better off leaving work and heading "straight" to the bar.

[phade]

Creekside?

[upstatehunter]

I have no problem with a father letting his son shoot a deer with him under parental supervision......heck if there was a law that sent people to jail for shooting there first deer before they were 14 this sites members would drop in half......hell I'd be in jail too

[jjb4900]

I have no problem with a father letting his son shoot a deer with him under parental supervision......heck if there was a law that sent people to jail for shooting there first deer before they were 14 this sites members would drop in half......hell I'd be in jail too

and you're ok with the part of them using someone else's tag so they could both continue hunting? last I saw on this site, that really pisses people off, along with every other game violation that people say lack enforcement....but I guess that's just people talking......guess I was way off on how people feel about this kind of stuff, and that's why I initially started this thread.

Edited January 13, 2015 by jjb4900

[nyantler]

I find it disturbing that there are those here that would much rather allow their kid to break the hunting age law here in NY because they don't agree with the law (which I don't agree with either)... rather than take their kid on a hunt in a State where the kid is of age. Okay, I don't really find it that disturbing... just interesting.

 

"But Joe... not everyone has the time or money to take their kid to another State hunting. I mean, it isn't that important that my kid hunts at 10 years old that I need to go to that extreme... It's easier to teach him how to break the law here over something of that little importance."

 

Don't teach your kid to break a law you don't agree with... teach him/her how to fight to change that law. If we all learned that instead of learning how to circumvent laws we don't like, we might not be having this conversation.

[upstatehunter]

and you're ok with the part of them using someone else's tag so they could both continue hunting? last I saw on this site, that really pisses people off, along with every other game violation that people say lack enforcement....but I guess that's just people talking......guess I was way off on how people feel about this kind of stuff, and that's why I initially started this thread.

Well I can't find where I said it was OK they used someone else's tag, so shouldn't that just give you a clue and answer for your question