Ohio Hunter Sentiment - Potential NY Model?

[phade]

"Deer hunting in Ohio has radically changed over the last couple of decades. While gun hunters once killed 90 percent of the deer during their short week-long season, bowhunters now harvest more than 50 percent of the deer aided by a four-month campaign. More deer are now taken with crossbows, which were first allowed in 1979, rather than compound bows or traditional longbows."

 

I mentioned a couple years ago this would happen, and it did finally, gun hunter's relegated to the back seat as far as the harvest numbers go.

 

Ohio hunters are interestingly upset at the deer numbers this year, but they're complaining about harvest rates much more stable than ours. The DNR there has been able to effectively get harvest numbers up in areas they want. The DEC can't. That's interesting to me.

 

Rumor is starting that they may reduce crossbow opportunity - probably minimal chance, but there are sources out there citing this now.

[Lawdwaz]

 

 

I mentioned a couple years ago this would happen, and it did finally, gun hunter's relegated to the back seat as far as the harvest numbers go.

 

That's too bad really.  I sure hope that that never happens here.....and I hunt with 100% effort with every weapon of choice when it is that season. 

 

To have gun hunters at the bottom of the list as far as harvest go would be a shame and I would think NOT what the DEC needs.

 

(Oh, I predict 20 pages on THIS thread) 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

(Oh, I predict 20 pages on THIS thread) 

by midnight...lol

[phade]

That's too bad really. I sure hope that that never happens here.....and I hunt with 100% effort with every weapon of choice when it is that season.

To have gun hunters at the bottom of the list as far as harvest go would be a shame and I would think NOT what the DEC needs.

(Oh, I predict 20 pages on THIS thread)

Why? Is there a reason why guns need to be the primary?

[phade]

by midnight...lol

Itll be quick.

[G-Man]

The dec was not happy with the bow harvest in ny,I believe that this (ohio harvest numbers)was the push to get crossbow in nys. Had bow hunters shot doe (instead of waiting for a buck like many do) I do not think you would of seen x bow pushed for by dec.

To further the needed increase in take of anterless (in areas that need it) you will probably see a 1 buck limit pushed here to force bowhunters to take more doe.

As for being compared with to another state that has a,short gunseason,I would expect a larger take percentage with archery equipment as if you don't hunt archery, your chances of hunting all 7 or 10 days of gun are slim (work,family,sickness,weather,ect) and rememer their dnr doesn't have to wait for legislature to pass any changes they want to make, nys dec doesn't have that option,we don't even have a season next year till coumo signs the bill allowing it next year....

Edited January 23, 2015 by G-Man

[steve863]

Be careful what you wish for. That would spell the end of ALL gun ownership in this state for sure. Hell, if the bowhunters would be doing the majority of the deer killing why would anyone then need a gun of any kind??

[Five Seasons]

That's too bad really. I sure hope that that never happens here.....and I hunt with 100% effort with every weapon of choice when it is that season.

To have gun hunters at the bottom of the list as far as harvest go would be a shame and I would think NOT what the DEC needs.

(Oh, I predict 20 pages on THIS thread)

Why is it a shame? At the end of the day a harvest is a harvest, no?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doc]

Why is it a shame? At the end of the day a harvest is a harvest, no?

As long as this isn't starting to mean that the bowhunter population density isn't approaching the circus-like gun hunter populations of the past. That may be great for whacking on deer populations, but the price may very well be a reduced quality of the bow hunt. No, those that own or control their own hunting grounds won't have to worry but those that use public or open private land may find bow hunting to be changed in a very negative way.

[First-light]

Be careful what you wish for. That would spell the end of ALL gun ownership in this state for sure. Hell, if the bowhunters would be doing the majority of the deer killing why would anyone then need a gun of any kind??

 

Hell Steve, that not true for everyone. You would still need a gun at my camp. lol

[phade]

Be careful what you wish for. That would spell the end of ALL gun ownership in this state for sure. Hell, if the bowhunters would be doing the majority of the deer killing why would anyone then need a gun of any kind??

Conflating deer harvest with an amendment right seems funny to me. We need to be able to shoot deer to justify our gun owmership? Seems like you are playing right into AC when he said you dont need all those bullets to kill deer.

At the end of the day, im not so sure there is a difference between a dead deer and a dead deer...

[Setters4life]

Ohio has gotten more progressive over the years, introducing staright-walled rifle cartridges as legal for deer hunting.

http://ohiodnr.gov/news/post/ohio-wildlife-council-approves-2014-2015-hunting-regulations

 

Curious: What is the non-resident take vs. residents during that four-month season?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

As long as this isn't starting to mean that the bowhunter population density isn't approaching the circus-like gun hunter populations of the past. That may be great for whacking on deer populations, but the price may very well be a reduced quality of the bow hunt. No, those that own or control their own hunting grounds won't have to worry but those that use public or open private land may find bow hunting to be changed in a very negative way.

Most public land is like that now as far as hunters. They will let crossbow into archery so the numbers will go up. If they took guns out of the rut and shorten the season many Ny areas would have some intense archery seasons in a year or two. Add in the 1 buck rule and Ar and sky is the limit in some Ny woods. No doubt the bone would grow...If thats what their after in some areas?

[nyantler]

Anyone that believes that Archers can achieve the same kill numbers as gun hunters in the same time period is delusional. Much of what Ohio has achieved also involves out of state hunters that have flocked to Ohio because of their big buck rep. NY does not have that attraction and to think that the DEC is going to adopt an Ohio-like deer management plan based on a hope that maybe someday we could be Ohio-like is a pipe dream at best. We are not Ohio.. our habitat is different... our hunter attitudes are different... our deer management goals are different and so on, and so on... oh yeah.. and our politicians are different!

[steve863]

Conflating deer harvest with an amendment right seems funny to me. We need to be able to shoot deer to justify our gun owmership? Seems like you are playing right into AC when he said you dont need all those bullets to kill deer.

At the end of the day, im not so sure there is a difference between a dead deer and a dead deer...

 

 

Yeah, I've heard it before where people say that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, but if you think that this state wouldn't come up with ideas to eliminate high powered scoped rifles and other such guns if somehow gun hunters weren't creating revenue for the state thru hunting license sales you better think again.  I'm sure the biggest reason that hunting type guns haven't been targeted by the anti-gunners is that they damned well know that the state would lose BIG money if hunters were not allowed to own them and use them for hunting.  Take gun hunters out of the picture with bowhunters doing ALL the deer killing and it's open season on the guns that hunters use.  I'll say it again, you better be careful what you wish for.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Anyone that believes that Archers can achieve the same kill numbers as gun hunters in the same time period is delusional. Much of what Ohio has achieved also involves out of state hunters that have flocked to Ohio because of their big buck rep. NY does not have that attraction and to think that the DEC is going to adopt an Ohio-like deer management plan based on a hope that maybe someday we could be Ohio-like is a pipe dream at best. We are not Ohio.. our habitat is different... our hunter attitudes are different... our deer management goals are different and so on, and so on... oh yeah.. and our politicians are different!

Start has to come first and what they are thinking is at least a start and people bitch all the time about hunting this and hunting that so it really should be no big deal. Just something else for some to bitch about. Then again, who knows, they may just hit a home run.  

And yes,,,Just take guns out of any phases of the rut and we could very easy have some Ohio like areas in Ny state. Very easy!

[phade]

Anyone that believes that Archers can achieve the same kill numbers as gun hunters in the same time period is delusional. Much of what Ohio has achieved also involves out of state hunters that have flocked to Ohio because of their big buck rep. NY does not have that attraction and to think that the DEC is going to adopt an Ohio-like deer management plan based on a hope that maybe someday we could be Ohio-like is a pipe dream at best. We are not Ohio.. our habitat is different... our hunter attitudes are different... our deer management goals are different and so on, and so on... oh yeah.. and our politicians are different!

 

1. Who said anything about the same time period?

2. That's a big claim - what data backs you up? Last I checked out of state hunters made up less than or equal to 10% of Ohio's license sales and even smaller % of tags filled. I suspect they're probably not making the bulk of kills as compared to resident hunters.

3. How is our habitat different, specifically?

4. Our hunter attitudes are different? How so or to what points do you include in "attitude"?

5. Politics? We're talking about deer management system - not talking about barriers to politics. I understand the way we manage regs is different, but we're talking about a system.

Edited January 23, 2015 by phade

[Lawdwaz]

Why? Is there a reason why guns need to be the primary?

 

Typically the gun is used by the youngest and oldest deer hunters.  I know you'll say that the crossbow will help that and it probably will but why? 

 

Why not keep that tradition alive? 

 

Do we really need 4.5 months to hunt? 

 

Are Ohio hunters happy with things?

 

 

OK, fire away...................................................................

[phade]

Yeah, I've heard it before where people say that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, but if you think that this state wouldn't come up with ideas to eliminate high powered scoped rifles and other such guns if somehow gun hunters weren't creating revenue for the state thru hunting license sales you better think again.  I'm sure the biggest reason that hunting type guns haven't been targeted by the anti-gunners is that they damned well know that the state would lose BIG money if hunters were not allowed to own them and use them for hunting.  Take gun hunters out of the picture with bowhunters doing ALL the deer killing and it's open season on the guns that hunters use.  I'll say it again, you better be careful what you wish for.

 

OK, so where did anyone say take them out of the picture? You might have misread something in your haste to reply.

Edited January 23, 2015 by phade

[phade]

Typically the gun is used by the youngest and oldest deer hunters.  I know you'll say that the crossbow will help that and it probably will but why? 

 

Why not keep that tradition alive? 

 

Do we really need 4.5 months to hunt? 

 

Are Ohio hunters happy with things?

 

 

OK, fire away...................................................................

 

Did anyone say take the guns away fully? Nope.

 

The do we really need is scary thinking - do we really need rifles? Do we really need compound bows? Do we really need two buck tags? Where does that "do we really need?" stop?

 

Tradition? Do you think Ohio doesn't have tradition? Pretty sure the tradition is similar in Ohio in its current state.

 

Are Ohio hunters happy? They are and are not, just like us. Hunters as a group are never happy, so that's a poor measure. Ask if Iowa hunters are happy, or IL, or KS? You'll get similar responses as Ohio or NY.

Edited January 23, 2015 by phade

[Lawdwaz]

Why is it a shame? At the end of the day a harvest is a harvest, no?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Balance is good.  Appeasing as many hunters and giving options is a good thing IMO.

 

 

It isn't a harvest, it's a kill,  Mr PC.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[phade]

Start has to come first and what they are thinking is at least a start and people bitch all the time about hunting this and hunting that so it really should be no big deal. Just something else for some to bitch about. Then again, who knows, they may just hit a home run.  

And yes,,,Just take guns out of any phases of the rut and we could very easy have some Ohio like areas in Ny state. Very easy!

 

And the Ohio DNR makes changes each and every year, and they're oftentimes MAJOR changes to react to the current state and attempt to make the next season/future seasons best managed. They get crap done in the period between the end of season and the regs being set each and every year. We don't. Politics? Yes. A model that works, though? Much better than what we have.

 

People at the end of the day just want to cling to their guns in their beds and be irrational about the fact that a successful deer management model likely involves fewer days afield with the bang stick than what we have now and the timing of those days. We bitch and moan about deer hunting here in NY, and you know what - we're NEVER going to get anywhere even close to what hunters here want with a super long gun season in a period of time where bucks are vulnerable. Sure, we can chip away, but it's not going to be day/night different.

[phade]

Balance is good.  Appeasing as many hunters and giving options is a good thing IMO.

 

 

It isn't a harvest, it's a kill,  Mr PC.

 

 

 

I fall into that so often too...I say harvest way too much. Probably because of work...when people ask how many deer I caught, I told them none because they are too fast, but I killed 5, and they cringe. Ah well.

 

Kill Kill Kill.

[Lawdwaz]

Did anyone say take the guns away? Nope.

 

The do we really need is scary thinking - do we really need rifles? Do we really need compound bows? Do we really need two buck tags? Where does that "do we really need?" stop?

 

Tradition? Do you think Ohio doesn't have tradition? Pretty sure the tradition is similar in Ohio in its current state.

 

Are Ohio hunters happy? They are and are not, just like us. Hunters as a group are never happy, so that's a poor measure. Ask if Iowa hunters are happy, or IL, or KS? You'll get similar responses as Ohio or NY.

 

You're right of course.

 

 

What is your point in starting this thread? 

 

[G-Man]

And the Ohio DNR makes changes each and every year, and they're oftentimes MAJOR changes to react to the current state and attempt to make the next season/future seasons best managed. They get crap done in the period between the end of season and the regs being set each and every year. We don't. Politics? Yes. A model that works, though? Much better than what we have.

 

People at the end of the day just want to cling to their guns in their beds and be irrational about the fact that a successful deer management model likely involves fewer days afield with the bang stick than what we have now and the timing of those days. We bitch and moan about deer hunting here in NY, and you know what - we're NEVER going to get anywhere even close to what hunters here want with a super long gun season in a period of time where bucks are vulnerable. Sure, we can chip away, but it's not going to be day/night different.

better according to who?, the guys/girl i work with (about 20 ohio residents ) are amazed at our hunting opportunities and have started to hunt here. as land access and cost of leases are going up and are out of reach for many residents.(an acre of land is 5000 there) most that do extensive hunting get permission from farmers to shoot does only on nusence tags.

You need written permission to be on any land and their game department is much larger and better staffed. Mandatory deer checks that are staffed,and they can do changes as they are in charge of game in ohio, nys dec is not in charge of anything everything must go thru nys legislature so quick changes or extending the season for a few day or doe only weekend to reach numbers desired is impossible. So the question is its better according to who?