Recovery Rates - Stick vs. Compound

[moog5050]

So I have started to invest a fair amount of time in shooting a recurve with the hope that I will be sufficiently proficient to bring it into the woods this year.  I learned to shoot with a compound and never picked up a recurve until late last year, but the thought of hunting with a traditional bow with no rests, sights, etc. and shooting instinctively is appealing.  As a result, I am practicing a lot.

 

That said, I have a lingering question in the back of my mind about how bad I may kick myself if I wound one or miss, knowing that no matter how proficient with the recurve I become, I am reducing the risk of a bad shot by staying with the compound.  Trust me, if I do hunt with the recurve, it won't be in the woods with me until I have great confidence that I will hit where I aim - it wont be a shoot and hope scenario.  But the reality is, I will always be less likely to make a bad shot with a compound - I think.

 

Soooo, for you folks that have hunted both ways, what is your honest recovery rates on shots with a recurve vs. compound?   Does it differ significantly?  Presumably, at a minimum, it limits your shot distance, but I am good with that.

[wildcat junkie]

Wisconsin did a study several years ago comparing recovery rates for traditional archery, compound bows & compound bows W/all the bells & whistles that were the rage then. (overdraws W/short lightweigt arrows)

 

It was found that the bells & whistles users had the worst recovery rates, most likely due to stretching the yardage on shots & the poor penetration of the lightweight arrows.

 

Traditional archers had a slightly better recovery rate than the regular compound users attributed to the shorter distances that shots were usually limited to.

 

In the mid-late '90s, about 1/2 of the bowhunters in Indiana had switched to traditional archery. Many felt that instinctive shooting, at the ranges usually encountered, was more effective under pressure than trying to estimate yardage, pick a sight pin, allow for shot angle, etc.

Edited January 27, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wheelieman]

It really depends but no matter what you find just make sure you read the numbers right, I read some thing last night that said compound and crossbow shooters were responsible for 60 percent of deer that were wounded, Thats with a survey of 225,ooo archers that shoot, Out of that 225,00 79% shot crossbows or compounds, So to me that says the traditional guys the other 21% were responsible for 40 percent of the wounded animals, Now this might have been propaganda at my archery club due to the article being printed out and left there, But the numbers alone are amazing if you think about it, Now that article might be totally fictional but if its not im sticking with the compound or crossbow, JMHO

[Lawdwaz]

So I have started to invest a fair amount of time in shooting a recurve with the hope that I will be sufficiently proficient to bring it into the woods this year.  I learned to shoot with a compound and never picked up a recurve until late last year, but the thought of hunting with a traditional bow with no rests, sights, etc. and shooting instinctively is appealing.  As a result, I am practicing a lot.

 

That said, I have a lingering question in the back of my mind about how bad I may kick myself if I wound one or miss, knowing that no matter how proficient with the recurve I become, I am reducing the risk of a bad shot by staying with the compound.  Trust me, if I do hunt with the recurve, it won't be in the woods with me until I have great confidence that I will hit where I aim - it wont be a shoot and hope scenario.  But the reality is, I will always be less likely to make a bad shot with a compound - I think.

 

Soooo, for you folks that have hunted both ways, what is your honest recovery rates on shots with a recurve vs. compound?   Does it differ significantly?  Presumably, at a minimum, it limits your shot distance, but I am good with that.

 

I just typed a response to this for 30 minutes and then by mistake pulled the plug out of the back of my computer and my machine went blank. UGGH....

 

In a nutshell, I've hunted with archery equipment since 1976 when NYS had their first "Junior Archery" season.  14 & 15 year old kids were allowed to bow hunt legally.  I've killed deer with the compound, recurve and longbow since then. I started with a recurve in '76, shot until 1980 when I bought my first compound.  In 1986 I met a guy who got me hooked on tradition bows.  That went until 1999 when I decided enough was enough, I had wounded too many deer and had to make a change.  On the second day of gun season I walked into Nick's Archery Shop and plunked down some serious cash on  new Darton Maverick.  Since then I've had two other wheel bows, a Bowtech and my current Elite

 

The traditional days for me were hardcore!  We (myself and a bunch of friends) shot all over the place, camped out for a few days at Denton Hill and Michigan Longbow Associations traditional get togethers.  I bought raw shafts and made my own arrows, fletched with barred feathers from gobblers I killed.  I killed plenty but wounded one to many and had to give it up, I just didn't put the effort into practicing that it needed.  My wife, young children and business took more of my time.

 

I still know lots of guys that hunt with recurves and longbows but you have to make a huge commitment to practicing year round and be dedicated.   If not, you'll have "trouble".

 

You can limit your shot yardage as much as you want to but it is still easy to muff a shot with a sight-less bow.  I loved shooting those bows, nothing compares to making that perfect double lung shot and seeing that deer trot out of sight and hearing it crash.  It is a TOTAL head game to be a great shot with traditional gear.

 

If you can devote the time to becoming proficient and pick the right shots, it is rewarding.

 

I know a bunch of guys that wanted to do it but soon realized that it just wasn't for them.  They still enjoy shooting the gear but when it comes time to hunt, the compound gets the nod.

 

As far as wounding rates between the two groups, that is a hard number to come up with.  For me, the compound is a much more accurate tool.

[dbHunterNY]

interesting... i just know that my trad range is 15 yards and my compound range is much, much, further.  i take a lot of things into account when determining if a deer is too far.  I'd say treat it the same as your compound in terms of determining your effective range.  if you shoot at half the distance you practice with a compound then do that with the trad gear.  also keep in mind there's not as much KE from a trad bow so heavy arrows of 500+ finished grains and a good cut on contact broadhead is a good idea.  do your part in being proficient and keep in mind that things happen.

[jjb4900]

I think you have to look at traditional archery much like any other sport that doesn't rely on gadgets to help you get it done...I know great golfers, ball players, dart players, who 9 out of 10 ten times are on their game...then there is that one day when they can't get anything right, same goes with traditional archery....only difference is there is a living creature at the other end when you screw up...my brother went to the recurve a few years back and is 4 for 4, but there are days at the range that are just plain terrible.

[moog5050]

Reminds me of golf already with the good and bad shooting days so far. I did overcome that in golf too by most people's standards so I will just stick with it and see how consistent I can become. Having a 20yd range in my basement makes daily practice easy

Edited January 28, 2015 by moog5050

[jjb4900]

look at how many guys hunt ducks and geese...wingshooting is not an exact science either, can't even begin to remember how many of each I've put a few pellets in that have gotten away....and yet we think nothing of wounding something like a bird, but are haunted by the wounding of a deer....sorry for going off topic, but food for thought.

[Lawdwaz]

Reminds me of golf already with the good and bad shooting days so far. I did overcome that in golf too by most people's standards so I will just stick with it and see how consistent I can become. Having a 20yd range in my basement makes daily practice easy

 

What bow, arrow etc combo are you shooting?  Glove or tab?

 

All instinctive I assume? (never mind on that one.......I see it is instinctive)

Edited January 28, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[Doc]

Logic tells me that the more technologically advanced weapon that you use, the more accuracy you will achieve and the less possibility of wounding there is. That would apply from a self-bow with sinew strings and stone arrow heads right on up the most sophisticated rifle and scope combinations. So if your prime consideration is solely about never encountering a wounding loss, it is probably best to forget about any kind of bow and go straight for the super-tech rifle with the high-dollar optics, and always keep your shots to mere chip-shots that are almost impossible to miss. 

 

When I took up bowhunting, it was with the understanding that I most likely was taking on a hunting activity and style of weapon where things will not always go right. Its a cold hard fact of limiting your equipment as part of the challenge. Even perfect shots can come up with bad results purely because of equipment shortfalls. If that's not a part of the challenge that you are willing and able to live with, then I have to say that there is no such thing as any archery equipment of any level that will erase the potential for wounding losses, and rifle hunting may be what you have to get into instead.

[sweet old bill]

Several studies have been done, most show that the traditional archer takes close shots  15 to 20 yards and has good recovery rates as the compound archers who takes longer shots 25 to 30 yards .

 

The key is the how sharp the broadheads are, the trad hunter use 3 or 4 blade razore sharp Bh's the compound hunter may use this type of BH or now the closed in flight Bh.

[moog5050]

What bow, arrow etc combo are you shooting? Glove or tab?

All instinctive I assume? (never mind on that one.......I see it is instinctive)

1975 Bear Kodiak Magnum 55/28 with Easton traditional axis 400s. Shooting with a glove 3 under.

[moog5050]

Logic tells me that the more technologically advanced weapon that you use, the more accuracy you will achieve and the less possibility of wounding there is. That would apply from a self-bow with sinew strings and stone arrow heads right on up the most sophisticated rifle and scope combinations. So if your prime consideration is solely about never encountering a wounding loss, it is probably best to forget about any kind of bow and go straight for the super-tech rifle with the high-dollar optics, and always keep your shots to mere chip-shots that are almost impossible to miss.

When I took up bowhunting, it was with the understanding that I most likely was taking on a hunting activity and style of weapon where things will not always go right. Its a cold hard fact of limiting your equipment as part of the challenge. Even perfect shots can come up with bad results purely because of equipment shortfalls. If that's not a part of the challenge that you are willing and able to live with, then I have to say that there is no such thing as any archery equipment of any level that will erase the potential for wounding losses, and rifle hunting may be what you have to get into instead.

I understand your point Doc and obviously I will bear some of that risk since I prefer bow hunting. My question was, for those that have hunted both ways, was there a significant difference in recovery rates.

[moog5050]

Thanks for the responses

[Doc]

I understand your point Doc and obviously I will bear some of that risk since I prefer bow hunting. My question was, for those that have hunted both ways, was there a significant difference in recovery rates.

Actually, in my recurve days, my recovery rate was 100%. I think SOB had it quite correct. My shots with the recurve were so close that I pretty much couldn't miss. The deer that I got with a recurve were all under 15 yards. I started bowhunting with an emphasis on the hunting part of it all. I didn't start missing until I began thinking that my equipment could replace stealth and getting close. Like everybody else, I began looking to buy shortcuts. I have gone back to understanding that no matter what kind of bow (recurve or compound) I have, the sport is still all about getting close ..... real close ..... so close I pretty much can't miss .... lol.

 

So I guess I will change my original reply to say that recovery rates are more dependent on hunting attitude and understanding the limits of your skill and equipment than on what kind of bow you are carrying.

[wildcat junkie]

Reminds me of golf already with the good and bad shooting days so far. I did overcome that in golf too by most people's standards so I will just stick with it and see how consistent I can become. Having a 20yd range in my basement makes daily practice easy

Shooting @ known distances won't improve your instictive ability under hunting conditions.

 

Get some judo points & practice in the woods/fields shooting @ rotten stumps, dadelion blossoms, leaves, etc. Do not estimate distance persee, but judge the shot just like throwing a baseball @ a small target. Try spot & stalk on cottontails or squirrels on the ground.

 

Judo points will virtually eliminate arrow loss @ low angle shots. I have only lost 1 arrow W/a judo point attached. I hit a hardwood wedge @ an oblique angle & broke the point off.

 

Edited January 28, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[Lawdwaz]

1975 Bear Kodiak Magnum 55/28 with Easton traditional axis 400s. Shooting with a glove 3 under.

 

Classy bow!

 

Family heirloom, internet score or other?

[sssurfertim]

I don't post here much but I am a young Bowhunter (26) and have been hunting with a compound since age 16. I have taken a good amount of deer in recent years with my compound, and started shooting a recurve last summer. I am pretty good with my shooting but still am not comfortable to hunt with it yet, I am dead on at 15yds but start to get sloppy after a few shots at 20yds. We have one more week leaft of bow season here on LI and I think my last day out will be with my Recurve since I have taken several deer this season with my compound. I am shooting a Pearson Cougar 50lbs @28" beeman 500 Bowhunter shafts with 50gr inserts and 125gr Magnus Stinger two blades, with three fingers under. I started with split finger, but switched to three under and was much more consistent. Next season I am starting with the recurve.

[moog5050]

Classy bow!

 

Family heirloom, internet score or other?

 

 

LOL -  Thanks.   I am the only person in my family to hunt ever (except a great uncle who passed long before I started).  It was actually a gift from my barber,  It is in pretty good shape too.   Would have been nice to start with a longer bow, but I will use what I have.

[wildcat junkie]

Your Kodiak Magnum bow is very short & not very well suited to a 28" or longer draw length. In the late '60s, early '70s short recurve bows were all the rage. Speed was the priority & a short recurve bow will generally shoot faster that a long one all thing being equal. The prblem is, a short bow will be more critical of form.

 

If you are 5'10" or taller, a 60" or 62" bow will be more forgiving & still deliver adequate arrow speed @ the longer draw length of a medium/tall shooter. A 52" recurve will shoot an arrow faster @ the shorter draw lengths of someone 5'8" or shorter.

 

The bow length must "fit" the physique of the shooter for maximum effectiveness.

[wildcat junkie]

 

 

The traditional days for me were hardcore!  We (myself and a bunch of friends) shot all over the place, camped out for a few days at Denton Hill and Michigan Longbow Associations traditional get togethers.  I bought raw shafts and made my own arrows, fletched with barred feathers from gobblers I killed.  I killed plenty but wounded one to many and had to give it up, I just didn't put the effort into practicing that it needed.  My wife, young children and business took more of my time.

 

 

When did you frequent Denton Hill?

 

I was Heavily into traditioinal archery & had a booth @ Denton Hill fron '94 to '97.

 

If you bought Port Orford cedar shafts @ Denton Hill during those years, you probably bought them from me & my wife.

 

I purchased 13,000 raw shafts from Rose Hill in 1997. We were one of the top producers of cedar arrows in the late '90s

[growalot]

I started out traditional shooting instinctive....I then went to a compound shooting instinctive....I have lost two deer and both with the compound...one the arrow went through and hit opposite shoulder the deer ran into the swamp and never left a decent blood trail....the second was the biggest of my life and at 17 yards passed thru....but I had put a site on the bow(peep eliminator,a great site accually), and because of that I really had no idea where the arrow hit...concentrated on pin and spot on deer...took sight off and bought yet another newer compound and still shoot instinctive.

I had 45# recurve and a 49# compound here are the 2 biggest difference for me. Even on a marginal shot the arrow rarely passed thru with the recurve...so the deer went running thru the woods with a "blender" in it...they never ran far. With the compound the arrows pass thru..on high marginal shot, they can run a very long ways and die far way and still leave no trail...

Now the great thing is speed difference and distance....I would never think to shoot past 20 yrds with that size recurve...but with the new compound have killed several out at 35 yrds.

Edited January 28, 2015 by growalot

[fasteddie]

My oldest son sold his compound and went to a recurve and has been fairly successful with it . Matt has a Black Widow bow as well as a couple others . The recurves cost as much as compounds . He shoots heavy single bevel blades and makes his own arrows . He makes footed shafts with the cedar and then Rosewood or some other type wood on each end of the shaft . I am pretty sure he keeps his shots down to 15 - 20 yards .

 

The shafts in the bottom left picture have a piece of antler in the self nock .

 

 

 

 

[Lawdwaz]

I bought from Kustom King and Bill Bonczar at  Allegheny Mountain Arrows.  Bill lived in Holland NY back in the early 90's and I met  him through a friend.  He then moved to down around Denton Hill and went into business with Mike (can't spell his last name) the fellow who managed the ski area.

 

I'd say we went to MIchigan in 91 and 92 and probably went to Denton Hill in about 92 or 93?  Don't recall exactly but do remember taking my son as a baby in 93.  The wife went on that trip...........no bows came home either.

 

We'd camp when we went, stay two night usually  My buddy Tom had a 16x12 wall tent we put up, it seened to draw a crowd.   It just got WAY to big towards the 97-98 years and was kind of a turn off.  The early days for us were great.  It was fun shooting the breeze with G Fred, Rick & Jerry from Great Northern and all the other great vendors.  Shooting the flying discs etc...Riding the chair lift up the hill was interesting, then shooting your way back down the hill was cool.

 

I was losing interest in 98-99 so mighthave missed your company along the way, what was the name of it?  Did you do any of the NYB (New York Bowhunter) get togethers?  Know any of those guys?

 

How about Hawkeye Bowman shoots, do them?

 

 

Edited January 28, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[wildcat junkie]

 

 

How about Hawkeye Bowman shoots, do them?

Sure did. Towards the end, they gave me the little pavillion for my set-up. I was quite popular W/the guys that ran the traditionl end. I met them @ Cloverdale..(Indiana)

 

I also did a shoot in Grayling once. It was in the mid-high 90°F range & the buildings were like ovens. Never went back.

 

Our season started out in Ocala @ the end of February. Went to the Mid Atlantic shoot in Baltimore every year from '94-'98. Buffalo was the end of the season. '97 was my last year there.

 

My business name was "Quality Crafted Arrow Wood". We had a wedge display that held 30 dozen fimished arrows. It was quite a draw to the eye. We sold a loy of arrow making supplies. I was buying direct from Zwickey, Magnus, Rib Tech, Rose City, Bohning, Tru-Flight & Great Northern to name a few..

 

Mike Knefley (sp?) got too greedy towards the end & Denton Hill became a huge money grab. He wouldn't even let vendors shoot W/O paying the high entry fees. It was the vendors that made the shoots. Vendors got little time to shoot & all of the other shows allowed us to shoot free of charge.