Explaining hunting to non-hunters

[The_Field_Ager]

VJP -

 

I have to confess to a lack of imagination. When I called the biblical response to a group with beliefs unknown the the speaker the "worst" possible, it never occurred to me that hostility was an option. 

 

 

Really?

It seems to me that this what you do.Drop a grenade in the middle of a room and then leave and observe the outcome. You could have approached this issue in a manner that did not include naked and glaring bigotry, but now that you have been called out, you feign ignorance and a faux sense of being above it all. It's not gone unnoticed.

[Uncle Nicky]

Just my $.02, but I never felt the "hunting for meat" explanation held a whole lot of water, I seem to sense more respect when I tell a non-hunter or anti-hunter that hunters are the ultimate conservationists (which we are).

[Curmudgeon]

Just my $.02, but I never felt the "hunting for meat" explanation held a whole lot of water, I seem to sense more respect when I tell a non-hunter or anti-hunter that hunters are the ultimate conservationists (which we are).

 

The meat argument is only one of many. It works because it is easy to show the hypocrisy of meat-eaters who never think about what they are doing.

[Curmudgeon]

Really?

It seems to me that this what you do.Drop a grenade in the middle of a room and then leave and observe the outcome. You could have approached this issue in a manner that did not include naked and glaring bigotry, but now that you have been called out, you feign ignorance and a faux sense of being above it all. It's not gone unnoticed.

 

I thought the court of public opinion already determined you were the troll. However, if it gets this back on topic, blame me. I don't care. I am just one of the many ants in this hill - very insignificant and easy to ignore.

 

BTW - It wasn't a grenade. It was a tennis ball.

 

[Mr VJP]

VJP -

 

I have to confess to a lack of imagination. When I called the biblical response to a group with beliefs unknown the the speaker the "worst" possible, it never occurred to me that hostility was an option. I need to learn that there are many more ways to skin a cat than I ever imagined. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Where is there any hostility in just saying "No" and taking the question from there?

 

When asked, "Is it wrong to kill?"  Answer, "No".  How is that hostile?

 

If you believe it is wrong to kill, you should not be hunting, talking about hunting, or trying to sell hunting to anyone who does not hunt.

 

I would not have any difficulty politely answering that question in front of a classroom full of kids.

[Uncle Nicky]

The meat argument is only one of many. It works because it is easy to show the hypocrisy of meat-eaters who never think about what they are doing.

 

Oh, I'm not saying I don't bring this up whenever questioned or confronted. I just don't feel 100% sincere stating that this is one of the major reasons I take to the woods or water.

[Mr VJP]

Just my $.02, but I never felt the "hunting for meat" explanation held a whole lot of water, I seem to sense more respect when I tell a non-hunter or anti-hunter that hunters are the ultimate conservationists (which we are).

 

I once posted an article about how much money hunter's contribute to conservation and that we should be proud to be able to say hunter's are America's premiere conservationists.

 

I was surprised to see a rebuttal post telling me hunter's are not conservationists and have no right to claim to be.

 

Seems to me, many within the hunting community have a lot of hatred for the average hunter.  Unless you meet their standards of excellence, you're a slob they need to make excuses for.

 

I worry this is the message they send to non-hunters when they speak to them.

[Elmo]

Oh, I'm not saying I don't bring this up whenever questioned or confronted. I just don't feel 100% sincere stating that this is one of the major reasons I take to the woods or water.

 

It's not the only or even major reason but due to the recent trend, it is the easy way in to get them to lower their defense and be more willing to listen to other reason that makes hunting great.  I find that bringing up the conservation aspect of it doesn't quite make sense to those who are not abreast with how ecology, economic, or the innate greed in people work.  The most common reply I hear to that is always "if you're so into conservation, why don't you simply donate the money and not have to kill them" or "killing an animal to save them is backwards logic" when they don't understand how over crowding or herd management works.  Not many of them are openly willing to sit there and hear the logic behind this but meat hunting immediately grabs their attention and then they'll be more willing to listen to other aspects of hunting.

 

As for vegetarians, I always say becoming a vegetarian is a big missed steak.  Sorry.  I had to throw that in there.

 

No, seriously though, for vegetarians I have to go deeper in my explanation.  Fortunately, the only vegetarian I explained hunting to was an old high school friend of mine who is now Ivy League educated and was willing to sit down and reason with logic.  I reminded him of how when we use to be kids (this is a true story) we use to go to this old park and catch baby garter snakes (in the Bronx!) but no matter how many died in our youthful, ignorant hands, there would always be more snakes the following summer for us to catch.  I then informed him that park has now been paved over and is now a middle school and parking lot and so in one signature, the entire population of snakes in the area has been wipe out.  Moral is that the biggest threat to the survival of animals is not hunting but rather human expansion and human development.

 

Not only does the use of a land for hunting assures that the land stays wild but it allows utilization of a eco-system that normally would be used by people.  This is on top of the money being raise to keep the land from development.  Again, from the locavore front, deer convert materials such as grass and wood bark that we cannot eat into something we can eat...protein.  If the land was to be converted to something that humans can eat directly such as industrialized agriculture, the land would no longer be available to the animals and in a similar fashion to the middle school and parking lot, many animals would no longer exist do to the lost of land.  Even those who do try to live on the land are killed.  There is a reason why the lettuce on your salad doesn't have any bite marks on it.  When the Acai berries became a craze, how many acres or rainforest were cut down to plant acai trees?  Once those trees were planted, how many monkeys were shot to keep them off the precious acai berries?  I forgot who said it but it is estimated that if the entire human population became vegetarians, every inch of the world would have to be converted to agricultural land and over 3/4 of the known species would become extinct.

[moog5050]

well stated elmo

[scolopaxmatt]

While hunting for the fridge makes more sense if you're chasing deer, when it comes to birds the numbers don't add up. 

 

http://www.ultimateuplandlodge.com/magazine/read/skewering-meathunters-the-true-cost-of-a-pound-of-game-bird_146.html

 

 

 

[Five Seasons]

Oh, I'm not saying I don't bring this up whenever questioned or confronted. I just don't feel 100% sincere stating that this is one of the major reasons I take to the woods or water.

If I had to break it down

50% love of the woods and nature

20% food

20% alone and peaceful time

10% challenge

[Mr VJP]

The position of hunting for meat becomes a problem when asked why there are varmint and predator hunters.  You will inevitably find yourself in a position of explaining why you don't eat woodchuck, fox, coyote, raccoon, bobcat, etc.

 

The meat position also throws trappers under the bus.  It's one of the reasons trapping has become so terribly regulated, to the point of significantly reducing the number of trappers and the impact they have on reducing predator populations.

[scolopaxmatt]

The position of hunting for meat becomes a problem when asked why there are varmint and predator hunters.  You will inevitably find yourself in a position of explaining why you don't eat woodchuck, fox, coyote, raccoon, bobcat, etc.

 

 

 

I suppose you COULD eat those.  Prion diseases anyone?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Really?

It seems to me that this what you do.Drop a grenade in the middle of a room and then leave and observe the outcome. You could have approached this issue in a manner that did not include naked and glaring bigotry, but now that you have been called out, you feign ignorance and a faux sense of being above it all. It's not gone unnoticed.

 

....says the biggest troll on the site that blows his stack when people call him out on his conspiracy theories and say anything against his religious beliefs...

[growalot]

 

The position of hunting for meat becomes a problem when asked why there are varmint and predator hunters.  You will inevitably find yourself in a position of explaining why you don't eat woodchuck, fox, coyote, raccoon, bobcat, etc.

 

I would think that that is an easy one...When any species over populates it is detrimental to, not only said species but all other species they connect to...IE...overpopulation in raccoon ,fox, coyote can lead to rabies...rabies can spread to all warm blood animals. Over population of predators can lower the prey populations to where it is harmful to those species......Over population in Fox can lead to out breaks of mange that can last years and cause very slow miserable deaths by starvation and exposure...There  is in all Ecosystems need for clear checks and balance...hunters are the most humane way of producing those checks and balances.

Edited June 11, 2015 by growalot

[Mr VJP]

Grow, I think the anti coyote hunting crowd would not buy that logic, even though it is fact.  Once you try to justify hunting because you eat your kill, you really have nowhere else to go in the minds of the clueless.

 

[mike rossi]

While hunting for the fridge makes more sense if you're chasing deer, when it comes to birds the numbers don't add up. 

 

http://www.ultimateuplandlodge.com/magazine/read/skewering-meathunters-the-true-cost-of-a-pound-of-game-bird_146.html

 

I dont know about that. The average buck yields 50 pounds of meat, and that is if your shot is perfect, a little off and subtract ten pounds. We kill a lot of snow geese and Canada geese, but even the mourning doves add up. 

 

Regarding  the pheasant, grouse and woodcock we get many meals each year. 

[growalot]

That may be so but you are missing the advantage I have...a woman's delivery on such subjects differs that a man's...t h at can make a world of difference in how one excerpts a message...

[wolc123]

There are lots of folks into animal rights, but why isn't anyone concerned about vegetable's rights. After all, they are totally helpless in most cases, and unable to run or defend themselves. Morally, eating wild animals is actually the "higher ground", certainly higher than eating domestic livestock. I know I could survive on an all-venison diet. The Inuit people up in the far North easily go for months on nothing but reindeer meat, and have for centuries. To them and me, vegetables are "what food eats".

[Mr VJP]

There are lots of folks into animal rights, but why isn't anyone concerned about vegetable's rights. After all, they are totally helpless in most cases, and unable to run or defend themselves. 

 

Peeling an onion brings tears to some people's eyes.

[Elmo]

Once you try to justify hunting because you eat your kill, you really have nowhere else to go in the minds of the clueless.

That's where I disagree. I find that justifying it with meat hunting opens the door and lowers their defense and then they become more willing to learn more about hunting. You can win a lot over this way. Those who still oppose it even after the meat hunting argument,...well, they're a lost cause and you'll never win those over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wildcat junkie]

We should see to it that there is room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes & gravy.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I suppose you COULD eat those.  Prion diseases anyone?

They are now saying that this is possible in our cherished Whitetail Deer! When this comes to be 100% proven whitetail deer will be a thing of the past for most states!

[mike rossi]

When we discuss the pros and cons of the defense of hunting by virtue of eating wild game, keep in mind, even though it is not a 100% foolproof argument, survey after survey of non-hunters, all show that non hunters are most accepting of hunting when it is done for food.

 

 

[Doc]

Just my $.02, but I never felt the "hunting for meat" explanation held a whole lot of water, I seem to sense more respect when I tell a non-hunter or anti-hunter that hunters are the ultimate conservationists (which we are).

If I am to be honest, I have to say that if you have a plate of venison on the table along side of a plate of greasy, drippy beef homburgs, I'll grab the burger everytime. So I don't hunt for the meat. Sure, I eat what I kill, but that is not the reason that I go out and freeze myself for hours on stand. When I am interested in meat, I head out to my favorite restaurant or supermarket, not to a tree stand.