When do you know you have coyote problem?

[DirtTime]

Here's some science:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/nyregion/03coyotes.html?_r=0

 

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/22453169/hudson-valley-residents-frustrated-by-aggressive-coyotes

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/nyregion/coyote-attack-in-new-jersey-is-second-this-month.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/nyregion/coyotes-create-dangers-and-divisions-in-new-york-suburbs.html

 

http://whiteplains.dailyvoice.com/news/coyote-conflicts-pets-police-people-rise-westchester

 

 

Notice the pattern here? No links from hearsay or wildlife protection groups. All from factual news sources. OK, it may not actually be science, but you can't deny facts.

 

 

 

 

[DirtTime]

By the sound of things here, it seems like coyote season is already open 365 d/p/y and it's not helping control the population much.

Like if it WAS legal year round everyone could stack up SOOOO many more since they wouldn't spend so much time looking over their shoulders.

Or maybe everyone that claims to be killing all these yotes out of season is just FOS, but pretending to be a POACHER has somehow become an admirable title for "hunters" to label themselves with.

 

Nope. I would not kill one off season unless I thought I was in serious danger. I think we need an all year season. Think about it, how many people actually hunt them? 

Edited July 28, 2015 by ....rob

[Four Season Whitetail's]

By the sound of things here, it seems like coyote season is already open 365 d/p/y and it's not helping control the population much.

Like if it WAS legal year round everyone could stack up SOOOO many more since they wouldn't spend so much time looking over their shoulders.

Or maybe everyone that claims to be killing all these yotes out of season is just FOS, but pretending to be a POACHER has somehow become an admirable title for "hunters" to label themselves with.

Not real concerned about the hunter part. I myself am protecting an investment and in reality have the law on my side.  This talk of some saying you cant just kill them and reduce the numbers is just plain hogwash. if you are on your property enough and kill on sight the numbers will drop to about nill. If you are seeing them in numbers,you are seeing them in daylight and you hear multiple packs yipping back and forth to each other from different corners of your property you probably have a problem. After that you will see your wildlife go by the wayside.

[DirtTime]

Nothing is being gained from a 24/7 - 9 month hunting season that extends through whelping season

 

In NY it's only 6 months. October - March....I don't live in ME, can we try to keep topics from NY'ers about NY actually about NY?

 

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by ....rob

[DirtTime]

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/28272-bear-kills-dog-candor-ny/

 

AHAH! The plot thickens! I knew there was a thread where Curmudgeon had made a comment about predators getting to close! Hypocrisy at it's best! I can't quote that thread into this one, but I do know how to snap a screen shot and then add that image as an attachment! So here you have it folks, the pot calling the kettle black and getting busted!

See image below!

 

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by ....rob

[Curmudgeon]

Rob -

 

You are working way too hard. I don't have the time to read all your links. I don't have the time to put everything in context for Papist. The older granddaughter wants to go catch frogs. I'll check back in later.

 

BTW - VJP is in ME so the reference is germane. Also, should we not have had the bear referendum discussion last fall because it was in ME?

Edited July 28, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[Curmudgeon]

By the sound of things here, it seems like coyote season is already open 365 d/p/y and it's not helping control the population much.

Like if it WAS legal year round everyone could stack up SOOOO many more since they wouldn't spend so much time looking over their shoulders.

Or maybe everyone that claims to be killing all these yotes out of season is just FOS, but pretending to be a POACHER has somehow become an admirable title for "hunters" to label themselves with.

 

To paraphrase Mrs. Curmudgeon, "Wooly, STOP MAKING SENSE!"

 

[mike rossi]

Rob -

 

You are working way too hard. I don't have the time to read all your links. I don't have the time to put everything in context for Papist. The older granddaughter wants to go catch frogs. I'll check back in later.

 

BTW - VJP is in ME so the reference is germane. Also, should we not have had the bear referendum discussion last fall because it was in ME?

 

Since I instigated that and may be mistaken, Im compelled to comment ,,,, He denied living in Maine,,, If I understood his reply to me.... He at one time sounded like he lived in Staten Island, then another in one of the Jersey cities across the Raritan Bay from Staten Isl - Woodbridge or Raway or some soup like that... His tag line simply says he escaped from NY, whatever that means... 

 

I dont quite follow your comment, but I want to add that the Maine bear ballot initiative was given more than its share of attention by the National hunting organizations and the sporting media. They do the same thing with wolves, importing polar bears and other animals and hunting big game with dogs. Mind control and distraction at its finest....

[GreeneHunter]

In NY it's only 6 months. October - March....I don't live in ME, can we try to keep topics from NY'ers about NY actually about NY?

Way too Logical !!!

[The_Field_Ager]

I don't have the time to put everything in context for Papist. 

 

 

Ahhh...context, the last refuge of a scoundrel. Don't bother. We both know what your 'context' actually translates too. 

[Mr VJP]

By the sound of things here, it seems like coyote season is already open 365 d/p/y and it's not helping control the population much.

Like if it WAS legal year round everyone could stack up SOOOO many more since they wouldn't spend so much time looking over their shoulders.

Or maybe everyone that claims to be killing all these yotes out of season is just FOS, but pretending to be a POACHER has somehow become an admirable title for "hunters" to label themselves with.

 

Wooly, your post actually preaches we do have a coyote problem.

[wooly]

Wooly, your post actually preaches we do have a coyote problem.

 

I'd bet if the OP had posted a trail cam pic of two yotes together in that field, he could have kept the same title for this post.

The way many of you are talking is that one coyote on your property would be one too many, so my response was directed towards that way of thinking.

 

I spend a ton of time in the woods through all 4 seasons, and I see plenty of coyotes. I also see an abundance of many other species that should be non-existent if I go by some of the responses I see here. 

Really don't matter to me how you guys handle things in your woods, but I'm here to tell you, until you get out there and really pay attention to what's going on with the big picture, it wont make much sense anyhow.

 

I am not anti-coyote hunting by any means.

I think they are beautiful animals, and exciting critters to watch, and challenging animals to hunt.... within the regulations.

[ants]

In years past, two of my hunting areas, which are about 200 miles apart, became over run with coyotes. Some Deer but especially turkey numbers fell big time. Turkey sightings became pretty much a rarity. We would shoot coyotes when ever we saw them. Both land owners let in trappers, to deal with the yotes,  and after a few years the numbers of deer and turkey went right back up. 

If their numbers are high and they are effecting game animal numbers I hate them. If their numbers are low and they just do their thing..I don't care as much. 

 

Make sense??

 

[growalot]

 

I think they are beautiful animals, and exciting critters to watch, and challenging animals to hunt.... within the regulations.

 

I agree with that Wooly ..that said..... Not all areas are equal and there needs to be not only management "reviews " on deer and turkey seasons but also on predator seasons. Your are correct in the assumption that some are taking things into their own hands. I saw this first hand with the guys that talked to me about the coyotes on their properties. Now  personally I believe it is the DEC's lack of any type of over view concerning predators that has guys doing things like this. They can not continue TRYING to manage things such as grouse and turkey numbers with out looking at predator #'s as well.  Looking,at the very least, for short term solutions to see how they work. Mother nature doesn't always work as fast as needed when it comes to ebb and flow of animal numbers. Management changes need to happen as a collective, game species with predators.

[Mr VJP]

What's the difference between Woodchuck, Porcupine, Red Squirrel and Coyote?

 

Answer:  The first three can be hunted year round with no limit.

 

What makes the predator Coyote special?  I saw this in NJ with people protesting a bear hunt too.  Why are bear different than deer as far as hunting them as a game animal?  The answer is, they're not.

 

Not hunting a specific animal the same as other animals in the same general category is a decision based on emotion, not wildlife management.  There is no reason not to allow coyote hunting year round in NY State IMHO.

 

[DirtTime]

What's the difference between Woodchuck, Porcupine, Red Squirrel and Coyote?

 

Answer:  The first three can be hunted year round with no limit.

 

What makes the predator Coyote special?  I saw this in NJ with people protesting a bear hunt too.  Why are bear different than deer as far as hunting them as a game animal?  The answer is, they're not.

 

Not hunting a specific animal the same as other animals in the same general category is a decision based on emotion, not wildlife management.  There is no reason not to allow coyote hunting year round in NY State IMHO.

 

Another good way to look at it.

 

I am actually starting get curious what if anything Curmudgeon hunts.

 

Anyone know the actual 2015-2016 coyote season dates yet? DEC site only has last tear posted. If I recall it doesn't change, but would still like to know when it was in official writing. E-mail and ask?

[growalot]

VJP.....TO answer that..no fur value...procuring few predators save Fisher. Red squirrel I think is considered an invasive and Chuck crop farm nuisance.Deer and bear pure #'s . You have seen as #'s go up so has hunting opportunities

Edited July 28, 2015 by growalot

[jjb4900]

I think anything, whether it be a coyote, porcupine, red squirrel or any other animal, only becomes a problem when it negatively effects the balance of something else...........

[Curmudgeon]

I am actually starting get curious what if anything Curmudgeon hunts.

 

 

Here we go again........................We've been around that block a number of times.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[nyantler]

Whether or not you have a problem doesn't necessarily relate to how many coyotes you have... there are many many factors that come in to play. Habitat size (not just your property, but total habitat in the area.), amount of small game and rodents in that habitat (ie. available food source), number of good fawning areas, disruption of the family unit... and other factors. Deer may be on the menu depending on the other food sources available... but for the most part coyotes fair well in most habitats on smaller game and USUALLY forego the effort needed to take down larger prey. Having more than one good fawning area in a habitat reduces fawn kill by making it harder for coyotes to pinpoint the birth place of fawns on a regular basis... the myth of coyotes decimating deer on a regular basis is just that a myth... there are only rare isolated cases where they really are a problem, usually in smaller habitats where there are limited other food sources other than deer... or where weather conditions make the deer especially vulnerable.

[nyantler]

...and when food source become too low... coyotes will move the family unit to a new habitat with more plentiful food supply (small game) and easier prey.

Edited July 29, 2015 by nyantler

[greg54]

Do coyotes eat raccoon at all? There's a lot of them all over the place

[wooly]

Coyote haters are the worst kind of wildlife managers. Their decisions are based on ignorance. Their actions are based on emotion.

 

I'm not talking about genuine problem coyotes. I'm talking about coyotes doing their thing in the wild. You want to discuss threats to people. Let's do real risk assessment and talk about problem domestic dogs. How many of them have killed people, including 2 year olds? What is more of a threat coyotes or fido? Kill all the dogs!!!!!!!!!!! While we are at it, why don't we kill all the bees too. They kill a lot of people.

 

The Navaho refer to the coyote as "God's dog". I happen to agree with them.

 

Try watching them, you might find you don't want to shoot them anymore. I watched a pack stalk a relaxed herd of pronghorn once - females and young. It was fascinating. There was a long stalk. As soon as the first pronghorn saw a coyote, the pack totally relaxed and trotted off. I've watched them pounce on mice like a fox. Slip through the woods like a ghost.

 

Let go of your hate for a bit. Let go of your fear. Develop a sense of wonder. It can be freeing.

 

 

Forgot to say, this is my favorite post from this thread!

Curmudgeon gets bashed quite a bit for his stance on yotes, but I honestly believe that he's had more opportunities to observe yote behavior more than most here ever have . (with the exception of those DWOD (downwindoutdoors) guys that knock 'em over like tin cans.

If you guys think that eradicating coyotes from the NY landscape entirely will help your beloved deer population on your properties will increase your odds then whack away. There will be another...bigger...better.. less intimidated by humans predator that will take his place.

 

It's hard enough to find an efficient yote killer during the winter months, and I'm sure the novelty would wear off real quick with a swarm of skeeters buzzing around your heads while your sweating your nuts off during the summer months.

 

Some guys here are dedicated to predator hunting, but for the most part, most here aren't driven enough to target them while big game seasons overlap no matter how deep the hatred runs.

Another hairy predator will soon step in to take the coyotes place as soon as you think you've got it all under control.

 

Yotes have an appetite for those white footed mice that seem to be the primary carrier of ticks that carry lyme disease.

Take your pick of what is more threatening to your woods I guess.

[wooly]

Not real concerned about the hunter part. I myself am protecting an investment and in reality have the law on my side.

 

So you only shoot them once they get inside the fence.... or just on the outside looking in?

Just wonderin'...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So you only shoot them once they get inside the fence.... or just on the outside looking in?

Just wonderin'...

Whenever they get within view of the livestock.  Does not take much to set them off at times. For about a year they had so many encounters and heard their yipping and yapping they would run from one side of the farm to the other when the heard a police car coming down the highway or any kind of siren pretty much.