7mm-08 Ammo Question

[DirtTime]

So, the ammo I am using in my 7mm-08 is the Hornady American Whitetail in 139gr. After a small heated debate with a buddy ( who for the record doesn't even hunt anymore ), said Hornady was crap, and the the Remington Accutip 140's were better because they are heavier.

1 grain? Does 1 grain make that much of a difference?

 

I didn't whether to laugh at him or take him seriously. I can't see 1 grain making a huge difference.

 

 

[ants]

The Hornady American White tail is very good ammo. Your friend is very wrong. Any 140 ish grain hunting  ammo, that groups well out of a 7mm-08 will be a deer slayer. I use 140grain  Plane Jane 140 grn Core Lokts and they lay deer out . If I could find 141 grainers the deer would probably just kill themselves…LOL!!!

[DirtTime]

Yeah, he hung up on me. I miss corded phones, when you hung up on someone in anger they knew it and vise versa. Anyway....

 

Yes, he was ranting about 1 grain and Remmy being just the best ammo. Nothing again't Remmy ammo, but the Hornady shot just fine and are very accurate out of my rifle. The last thing I heard him say was something about 7mm mag, and then I heard silence. LOL

 

I just want to know if anyone thinks a single grain on a bullet makes a big difference.

[ants]

1 grain will make no difference. The 7mm-08 is an outstanding deer round. find a load that shoots good out of your rifle and you're all set.

[ny hunter]

Hard to even think 1 grain would even amount to an argument....If you like the way the gun shoots with what you have why bother even talking about it......Go with the ammo you and the gun like.

[Pygmy]

One grain makes no difference...In fact, with bullets available for the 7mm08, 20 grains makes less difference than one might think...

Gun writer Dave Petzal in one of his books, was writing about the .270 Win, which is very similar in performance and bullet weights to the 7mm08..

He said that in the real world, he could tell no difference in performance between the 130 grain and the 150 grain bullets..He said as far as he was concerned, one killed as well and was as easy to hit with as the other.. If your rifle groups one bullet weight better than the other, just smile and use it..

[Lawdwaz]

One grain?

I'm sweating out the decision to have one donut or two tomorrow.

Gimme a break .....rob

[DirtTime]

One grain?

I'm sweating out the decision to have one donut or two tomorrow.

Gimme a break .....rob

 

Skip the donut and have a rice cake. Deer season a comin! Time to get in shape law. 

 

Hey, I find it as lame as all of you do. That's why I made the post. I am not switching my ammo, already sighted in and it's all good! I am trying to understand why he got so bent about 1 grain. LOL I just don't get it. 

I wish I had caught the last thing he grumbled about the 7mm mag before he hung up.

[Pygmy]

Obviously the guy isn't exactly a rocket scientist concerning rifle ballistics..<<grin>>...

Tell him that a rifle expert you know named Lawdwaz says that 7mm Mags make good tomato stakes...

[DirtTime]

I will do that Pygmy. I have been saving the screen shots on this topic to email to him. Already sent the link too! I love it! LOL

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by ....rob

[sailinghudson25]

Bullets are designed to ideal velocities on specific types of game.  Depth of penetration and overall thickness of tissue in area. 

 

A bullet suited for whitetails in a 7mm rem mag won't expand well in a 7mm-08.

 

When finding a good load or commercial ammo, keep this in mind.  Even more so for ammunition of not so popular sizes, like 7mm versus 270 or .308".  Sometimes they like to use the same bullet for regular and magnum calibers.  Lower priced ammo usually ends up having the magnum cartridge having ammo that over expands or breaks up.

 

I know 2 people who use that hornady ammo and do well with it.

 

Bullet construction vary a ton.  A cup of copper-ish metal with lead poured into the middle, (cup and cone).  Bonded lead to a copper jacket.  What type of "copper-ish" metal is used in construction, Also, the dimensionality of the bullet.  Is the copper hollowed out section just a simple hole, or does it having something like rifling on the inside which makes it expand to a leaf pattern.  Some use no lead at all, other have a hollow point with a plastic tip.  Some are a thick shell of the copper-ish metal, like a casting.  Some might be a thin shell.  While others are a electroplating of copper on the lead slug.  Powerbelts and some other muzzleloader bullets do this often.  The alloy of the inner material matters too.  How pure the lead is.  How well it expands and how well it adheres to the jacket material is effected by stuff added to the lead.

 

This can matter a little bit, or a lot.  People who use handgun bullets in rifles know this well. 

 

Recovered bullets or just measuring the exit wound is a good gauge of effectiveness.  If the bullet hits a rib or not can make a difference in the results too, so keep that in mind.

 

[Lawdwaz]

Bullets are designed to ideal velocities on specific types of game. Depth of penetration and overall thickness of tissue in area.

A bullet suited for whitetails in a 7mm rem mag won't expand well in a 7mm-08.

When finding a good load or commercial ammo, keep this in mind. Even more so for ammunition of not so popular sizes, like 7mm versus 270 or .308". Sometimes they like to use the same bullet for regular and magnum calibers. Lower priced ammo usually ends up having the magnum cartridge having ammo that over expands or breaks up.

I know 2 people who use that hornady ammo and do well with it.

Bullet construction vary a ton. A cup of copper-ish metal with lead poured into the middle, (cup and cone). Bonded lead to a copper jacket. What type of "copper-ish" metal is used in construction, Also, the dimensionality of the bullet. Is the copper hollowed out section just a simple hole, or does it having something like rifling on the inside which makes it expand to a leaf pattern. Some use no lead at all, other have a hollow point with a plastic tip. Some are a thick shell of the copper-ish metal, like a casting. Some might be a thin shell. While others are a electroplating of copper on the lead slug. Powerbelts and some other muzzleloader bullets do this often. The alloy of the inner material matters too. How pure the lead is. How well it expands and how well it adheres to the jacket material is effected by stuff added to the lead.

This can matter a little bit, or a lot. People who use handgun bullets in rifles know this well.

Recovered bullets or just measuring the exit wound is a good gauge of effectiveness. If the bullet hits a rib or not can make a difference in the results too, so keep that in mind.

Where have you been hiding?

A breath of fresh air! Finally some new blood around here to set us straight and keep things exciting.

Welcome to the forum.

[Hock3y24]

I have NEVER had an issue with a hornaday round, smacked a doe with American whitetail 308 last year. This year using the American whitetail 12ga sabot. My ccw .380 is loaded with hornaday xtp bullets as well as the 9mm. 25.06 has American whitetail and hornaday superformance.

[wildcat junkie]

I like the "experts' that claim the 7mm "ought 8" is more powerful than an "ought 6" & is therefore a magnum. One guy that was spewing this wisdom claimed his brother made a 3000 yard kill with the 7mm ought 8.

[Pygmy]

I like the "experts' that claim the 7mm "ought 8" is more powerful than an "ought 6" & is therefore a magnum. One guy that was spewing this wisdom claimed his brother made a 3000 yard kill with the 7mm ought 8.

Makes sense, Wildcat...

After all, "08" IS bigger than "06"....

[wildcat junkie]

Makes sense, Wildcat...

After all, "08" IS bigger than "06"....

33% bigger as a matter of fact!

 

The young man that I convinced to buy a 7mm-08 as his first gun was chided by his not so clued in father that the 7mm-08 was a magnum & way too powerful.

[wildcat junkie]

FWIW, the most accurate factory ammo I ever used in the 7mm-08 I had was Federal Premium W/140gr Nosler BT.

 

Likewise, the 140gr Nosler BT was markedly more accurate than the 139gr Hornady SST in my7mm-08 handloads.

[grampy]

Taking wildcat's advice, I used the federal premium 140gr. BT in my 7mm-08 and have fantastic results. Have tried many other options and all shot well from my savage axis, but those federal BT's shot the best groups.

Rob, Perhaps your friend is just a bit jealous of your new gun?

[Pygmy]

Nosler BTs have been accurate in every rifle I have ever fired them in..

For years the 140 BT was my pet load in my .280..I also used it in my 7mm08 for several years and it was very accurate and killed well..

[Mr VJP]

I don't think any 139 or 140 gr bullet in a 7mm-08 won't work well on deer.  I have not seen, or heard of one that wouldn't.

 

[DirtTime]

That's possible grampy. We grew up together, but also grew apart in our teens a bit. He's in AZ now ( been there for about 15 years or so ). But he stopped hunting when he got married around 94. We talk maybe twice a year. When he called the other day we got talking about hunting. I asked if he ever got back into it he said no. He asked what I was hunting with so I told him. I am not sure how he knows so much not hunting or owning any firearms from what I understand. When I asked about the 1 grain thing is when he got all testy and started telling me this and that. Then I started listening with the other ear. I think the 7mm mag thing I heard just before silence was him saying it was a better caliber. Who knows, I didn't give him the satisfaction of a call back. Probably won't talk to him again.

 

Most people I know call it the 7mm-08, also saves on typing ought or 'aught' ( yes I have seen people spell it that way too ) everytime.

 

I am no expert, but the 7mm is a 7mm, and isn't a 30-06 closer to 8mm's ( near that anyway )? 

 

I like the "experts' that claim the 7mm "ought 8" is more powerful than an "ought 6" & is therefore a magnum. One guy that was spewing this wisdom claimed his brother made a 3000 yard kill with the 7mm ought 8.

 

Did you mean 300 yards?

[wildcat junkie]

That's possible grampy. We grew up together, but also grew apart in our teens a bit. He's in AZ now ( been there for about 15 years or so ). But he stopped hunting when he got married around 94. We talk maybe twice a year. When he called the other day we got talking about hunting. I asked if he ever got back into it he said no. He asked what I was hunting with so I told him. I am not sure how he knows so much not hunting or owning any firearms from what I understand. When I asked about the 1 grain thing is when he got all testy and started telling me this and that. Then I started listening with the other ear. I think the 7mm mag thing I heard just before silence was him saying it was a better caliber. Who knows, I didn't give him the satisfaction of a call back. Probably won't talk to him again.

 

Most people I know call it the 7mm-08, also saves on typing ought or 'aught' ( yes I have seen people spell it that way too ) everytime.

 

I am no expert, but the 7mm is a 7mm, and isn't a 30-06 closer to 8mm's ( near that anyway )? 

 

Did you mean 300 yards?

It isn't "aught 8" as in aught 6. The 06 in 30-06 is the year the AS Army adopted the improved version of the 30-03, thus aught 6 as is often used as a year denotation.

 

The 08 on 7mm-08 comes from the parent cartridge .308, shortened from 7mm/308. Using the terminology 7mm-aught 8 is a sign of ignorance concerning the origin of the cartridge.

 

7mm is actually .276", the bore size. The bullet diameter of .284 is actually 7.2mm. The 270 Win actually shoots a bullet closer to 7mm (.277") than the 7mm cartridges.

 

This is similar to 30-06 that actually shoots a .308" bullet and also applies to the NATO designation of the 308 as 7.62 x 49. The bullet diameter is .308"/7.82mm.

 

Same holds true for 8 X 57 which shoots a .323"/8.2mm bullet. 8mm denotes the bore size of .315"/8mm.

 

In all cases, "bore size" is the diameter of the "bore" before rifling. Rifling in a CF rifle that shoots jacketed bullets is typically .004"/1mm deep adding .008"/.2mm to the bullet diameter which must be large enough to fill the grooves.

 

And yes I meant 3000 yards. That is what the knuckle dragging "expert" claimed about the 7mm-ought 8. It's more powerful then an ought 6 you see cuz ought 8 is bigger than ought 6.

Edited August 2, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[Larry]

First let’s dispel the 3000 yard shot with 7-08. Farthest kill shot was with a 338-lupua mag in 2014 and it was at 2474 yds.
The 7-08 is a 308 neck down to 7mm. Remington brought out the round back in the 1980’s it was a wildcat long before that. It is one of a number of very good cartridges based on the 308 win starting with the 243win.
Whether you use a 139gr or a 140gr bullet it makes no difference Hornady makes a very good bullets. So pick one you like and go with it. it will work and don’t over analyze this.

[Larry]

Never forget we won the cold war because of Reagan administration policies

[Pygmy]

Oh Boy !....I'm  grabbing a beer and some popcorn !