Does only for the first 2 weeks. Thoughts?

[NonTypical]

Maybe a January Doe Hunt. A lot of states use this as an option when numbers get to high. In Michigan, there isn't a always January Doe Hunt, but they have that option when needed. Of course, they also have in their constitution that the Natural Resource Commission has all authority when determining on how to manage wildlife.

On Long Island, our season has been extended into January. We can use both a bow or a gun. Many hunters on the island will take there share of does at that time, myself included.

[sssurfertim]

On Long Island, our season has been extended into January. We can use both a bow or a gun. Many hunters on the island will take there share of does at that time, myself included.

should have put LI in the title, it's so warm early season that I really don't kill my does until December.

[NonTypical]

Here on Long Island, we used to be able to shoot a doe using a DMP. Then have it checked in and we would get another tag for a deer of either sex, and keep doing that until you shot a buck, then that tag would be dead. They took that incentive away from us last year. Why??? I have no idea. We can get as many as 4 DMP's per person without sharing them. I like many others, would fill a few tags during the course of the season. Then at least during the late gun or bow season, we would still have some deer of either sex DMP's left just in case we had an opportunity to harvest a buck. That would rarely happen, so more often than not, we would end up just harvesting another doe.

What they should have done is have an earn a buck program where you have to shoot 2 or even 3 does before you could harvest a buck. When hunting on a certain federal wildlife refuge here on the island, they require you to shoot 2 does before you can shoot a buck. It has worked pretty damn good in there by knocking the numbers right down.

I can guarantee you that if the state imposed an earn a buck program, at least here in 1C, there would be many hunters willing to stack up the does at some point during the season. Without a doubt, the population here on the island is out of control and something does need to be done about it. Instead of taking incentives away from the ones who can help control it in heavily populated areas, they should be creating incentives like an earn a buck program.

[NonTypical]

should have put LI in the title, it's so warm early season that I really don't kill my does until December.

I agree Tim. Late season is where it's at for me for harvesting does.

[mike rossi]

(One) part of the equation I have not seen anybody discuss is that the timing of crop harvest and the decreasing daylight. The earlier you knock the population down, the less crop depredation and the less deer killed by autos. The rut occurs when deer activity is highest when most autos are on the road..... 

 

Also, I do not know how common this is, I heard it twice, but the practice of ignoring does by theory they will draw bucks during the rut is going to concern the DEC if it becomes a cultural practice. 

[wolc123]

Most agree that the vertical bow is about the least effective weapon for killing does.   This is mostly because of limited range and difficulty in "making the draw" with a group of deer in close.   Does are in such great numbers in these areas that it is rare to see them alone.  The bow does have one advantage over a gun, it's silent report.  In those areas which are infested with deer and the state has resorted to this new measure, the does go nocturnal, almost at the sound of the first gunshot.

 

Allowing ML's or guns for does early is not the answer, they are too loud and will put most of the does into a full nocturnal mode before adequate numbers can be harvested.   The crossbow is the true solution, not needing to be drawn with groups in close yet nearly as quiet as a vertical bow.     

[NFA-ADK]

Wolc123 the X-Bow is much louder than a compound, not even close.   Plus the anti hunter is very against this weapon.

 

Mike Rossi that is typically what we do.  Target doe after we get our bucks.  If the DEC does not give out extra tags for any reason they are shooting themselves in the foot.  I never targeted doe until last year for population control.  I was not successful, if this is the reason they give no tags to a hunter it is moronic on LI if population control is what is needed. 

 

If I do not get any extra tags then I would probably not hunt until I can shoot a buck.  And then I could care less about population control if the DEC figures I did not get a doe last year so no extra tags this year?  If I get the extra tags I will hunt the first 2 weeks where I know doe are abundant, I just like being in the woods.  Not sure I would shoot one until the opportunity is presented in the first 2 weeks but I admit I trophy hunt unlike most I know.

 

Otherwise many hunters I know are in it for meat and this will not affect them on LI.  The real trophy hunters I know do not shoot doe until after the rut so they would not even hunt the first 2 weeks out of fear of spooking the bucks and or alerting them to their presence.

 

So for me, if I get the extra doe tags no much will change, no management tags then I go back to targeting buck only. 

 

One thing is for sure, taking away the opportunity to kill extra deer and yes this incudes bucks will only hamper the effort to lower the population.  This will not go over good with many hunters.  Not all of them trophy hunt but they would hate to have that opportunity removed and will push back.

[wolc123]

Maybe for a heavy draw, high speed model but the noise of any crossbow is certainly a lot closer to a vertical bow than it is to a gun.   A lot also depends on the model.  The little entry-level one that I bought last year is no louder than my 65% let-off high-velocity compound.  Granted, it is only 300 fps and 135 lb draw but it should get the job done inside 50 yards.  At 59 yards last season the penetration was marginal, just getting thru the heart, so 50 yards will be my limit with it going forward.    I have no doubt that if I had those first 2 weeks this fall I could kill some does easily inside of 50 yards.  The trouble is, they go nocturnal soon after they know they are being hunted and the only "easy pickings" when x-bow finally opens now, for the last 2 weeks, is 1-1/2 year, rut-crazed bucks.     

 

As a pure meat-hunter, 2-1/2 year old bucks are number one on my target list.  These new regulations should definitely increase my odds a bit in getting one of those with my crossbow since they are now off-limits to the early bow-hunters.   Them, and older bucks are also usually smart enough to go nocturnal soon after they pick up the scent of bow-hunters.    I can definitely see these new regs reduce the early bow-season pressure as most bow-hunters I know care only about killing bucks.  Taking away that pressure should make for a more productive gun season opener.  It has been a little lame at home the last few years do to increased bow-hunting activity. 

 

Overall, for me personally I see more good than bad to these new regulations, with my only dislike being the loss of the ability to kill a buck in the ML season.   I will just have to make sure my buck tags are filled prior even if it means killing a 1-1/2 year 3" unicorn buck. 

[papabear]

its meat 

[Jaeger]

This came up on a national forum by a ny hunter as well.

 

My mother, still down out on eastern long island, north fork WMU1c, just emailed me an article out of a local paper reporting the same thing.

I had bowhunted LI for the fist 10-12 years of my hunting and we both agreed that making the first 15 days of the season doe only will only keep hunters out of the woods for the first 15 days.

In an area where doe permits are almost unlimited, no one is going to go out the first 15 days if they can't shoot a buck.  The DEC accomplished exactly the opposite of what they wanted.

A better idea would have been to establish an "earn a buck" system for the first 15 days, shoot a doe then and get an extra buck tag.  That would have really got the bowhunters taking down the does.

I think the DEC generally does a great job, but sometime one just has to wonder if they think like the hunters or not.

Below is what I posted there.

Actually, the last I recall, if you do bring in a doe on an anterless DMP permit to a check station, they give you another doe permit.  When I left the island if you brought a doe in that you took on a deer management permit (doe permit, not antlerless your get with bow/muzzleloader) you got an either sex tag.  Now, back then, your first and second choices in 1C were guaranteed, a second drawing for two more tags was had in Oct.  Hence, you started the season off with 4 deer management permits.  if you filled any or all you got either sex tags.  So, if you took your 4 does you got 4 either sex tags in addition to your regular season deer tag.  You could take 5 bucks!  Or if you brought in yet another doe off one of the additional tags you got another doe tag.  Point is, you could start off with 4 doe tags and your regular tag and continue to take does until the season ran out or you used them to kill 5 bucks.

And even that didn't cull the herd enough.

 

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[Jaeger]

Just checked when on the DECALS site this morning.  The "bonus" permits in wmu 1c (eastern LI) are anterless only, the site specifically stated that they are doe permits and not the either sex permits given out in the past.  A change, oh well.

[jjb4900]

Just checked when on the DECALS site this morning.  The "bonus" permits in wmu 1c (eastern LI) are anterless only, the site specifically stated that they are doe permits and not the either sex permits given out in the past.  A change, oh well.

I may be wrong, but I think that changed prior to this year.......

[NonTypical]

I may be wrong, but I think that changed prior to this year.......

You are correct. It changed last year.

[NonTypical]

<p>This came up on a national forum by a ny hunter as well.My mother, still down out on eastern long island, north fork WMU1c, just emailed me an article out of a local paper reporting the same thing.I had bowhunted LI for the fist 10-12 years of my hunting and we both agreed that making the first 15 days of the season doe only will only keep hunters out of the woods for the first 15 days.In an area where doe permits are almost unlimited, no one is going to go out the first 15 days if they can't shoot a buck. The DEC accomplished exactly the opposite of what they wanted.A better idea would have been to establish an "earn a buck" system for the first 15 days, shoot a doe then and get an extra buck tag. That would have really got the bowhunters taking down the does.I think the DEC generally does a great job, but sometime one just has to wonder if they think like the hunters or not.Below is what I posted there.Actually, the last I recall, if you do bring in a doe on an anterless DMP permit to a check station, they give you another doe permit. When I left the island if you brought a doe in that you took on a deer management permit (doe permit, not antlerless your get with bow/muzzleloader) you got an either sex tag. Now, back then, your first and second choices in 1C were guaranteed, a second drawing for two more tags was had in Oct. Hence, you started the season off with 4 deer management permits. if you filled any or all you got either sex tags. So, if you took your 4 does you got 4 either sex tags in addition to your regular season deer tag. You could take 5 bucks! Or if you brought in yet another doe off one of the additional tags you got another doe tag. Point is, you could start off with 4 doe tags and your regular tag and continue to take does until the season ran out or you used them to kill 5 bucks.And even that didn't cull the herd enough.

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As far as it not being able to cull the herd enough, a huge problem on Long Island has always been access and having a 500' setback. Now that they have reduced the setback to 150' and are trying to open up more public land, they take away an incentive for hunters to shoot does. I just don't get it. When hunting in Wertheim Wildlife Refuge, the Feds got it right trying to reduce the herd. You have to shoot 2 does before you can get a buck tag. This encouraged hunters to take does, and has worked very well to reduce the herd.

I am all for shooting does, but if I had my choice I try to do it later in the season when temps drop. If they imposed an Earn-A-Buck program, I would empty my quiver on opening day and stack them up.

[jjb4900]

As far as it not being able to cull the herd enough, a huge problem on Long Island has always been access and having a 500' setback. Now that they have reduced the setback to 150' and are trying to open up more public land, they take away an incentive for hunters to shoot does. I just don't get it. When hunting in Wertheim Wildlife Refuge, the Feds got it right trying to reduce the herd. You have to shoot 2 does before you can get a buck tag. This encouraged hunters to take does, and has worked very well to reduce the herd.

I am all for shooting does, but if I had my choice I try to do it later in the season when temps drop. If they imposed an Earn-A-Buck program, I would empty my quiver on opening day and stack them up.

I think what has got many bent out of shape is just the simple fact that they may have to pass up a buck and kill does first, I'm willing to bet they would still complain no matter what plan was implemented if it in any way interfered with their ability to take a buck in any way shape or form........

[SteveB]

Maybe for a heavy draw, high speed model but the noise of any crossbow is certainly a lot closer to a vertical bow than it is to a gun.   A lot also depends on the model.  The little entry-level one that I bought last year is no louder than my 65% let-off high-velocity compound.

You either own the loudest compound ever made or have serious hearing issues.

[eagle rider]

makes no sense to me.... it's either deer season or it isn't.  I can't believe that this will make a difference whatsoever.  I'd rather seem what PA does and have Doe Days mixed in here and there if they really must. 

[Vinny Tagalucci]

The NYSDEC has been issuing unlimited antlerless tags in 1C for 10+ years.They were telling hunters something.Problem is nobody was listening.Toooo many antlerless deer get a pass from hunters blinded by antlers.#1 reason everyone is pissed is because they lose their chance at an early season Buck.

Herd Management before Trophy Management................don't blame the DEC.Their tools failed......not them.

[NonTypical]

The NYSDEC has been issuing unlimited antlerless tags in 1C for 10+ years.They were telling hunters something.Problem is nobody was listening.Toooo many antlerless deer get a pass from hunters blinded by antlers.#1 reason everyone is pissed is because they lose their chance at an early season Buck.

Herd Management before Trophy Management................don't blame the DEC.Their tools failed......not them.

I agree herd management should come first. But let's be honest, this plan is not going to help. It is counter productive. This is obviously going to keep many hunters out of the woods during the early season, myself included. It would've been more productive to make a doe only season in December when temps drop and hunters could harvest as many does as they would like without having to worry about them spoiling if they don't get them processed asap. I will still be shooting a bunch and donating them, but it won't be in October.

[Doc]

The point is that if you have a serious population problem, you don't try to solve it using the least effective season available. A couple of doe days during gun season would do a whole lot more than the two weeks of antlerless bow season. To choose the lesser efficient season, raises huge questions about the seriousness of the population problem, or the credibility of what is truly the goal.

[mike rossi]

The point is that if you have a serious population problem, you don't try to solve it using the least effective season available. A couple of doe days during gun season would do a whole lot more than the two weeks of antlerless bow season. To choose the lesser efficient season, raises huge questions about the seriousness of the population problem, or the credibility of what is truly the goal.

 

Maybe most of the nuisance problems are in gun free zones? 

[Vinny Tagalucci]

The real point is for years Hunters in 1C have been and will continue to pass antlerless deer whether in October or January.

Everyone is quick to place blame on the DEC.That's the easy thing to do.Hunters are ultimately responsible to manage and maintain populations.The DEC sets the stage.Hunters are not always willing to perform.All one needs to do is read posts on various websites and social media pages to see the general consensus is that does are not specifically targeted for various reasons......too warm......too much hassle.......lessens the chances of seeing a buck.....the DEC is a bunch of morons.........etc. None of which help with population control.Spin it any way you want.Bowhunters in 1C need to take responsibility and kill more antlerless deer.

It's easy.......kill,donate, get another tag.They hand out tags like tickets at a carnival.

[eagle rider]

That was a purely political decision. The way I heard it, the local state rep would only support the change to allow x-bows in NY if LI was excluded.

 

There is much opposition to hunting on LI. Lot's of "don't kill Bambi" types, and many live near hunting areas. They think spending thousands on "specialized sniper teams" is a better solution to population control than allowing hunting... while also feeding the deer in their yards.

 

I heard that DEC was considering Connetquot for deer hunting... the locals are up set to fight it tooth and nail. (It doesn't help that the DEC was having closed and invitation only meetings on the topic, trying to exclude people from the decision making process).

 

So many people on LI, so many different opinions and so little quality information distributed.

Yeah it's don't kill Bambi out here until the car crashes go up, the plantings are destroyed and their spraying for ticks in the school fields.  Then all of a sudden you stop hearing so much from the idiots.  Every once and again you'll get a pike of BS like the White Buffalo study to chemically sterilize doe, but that's it.  Crazies.

 

Doe only first two weeks is an acceptable population management, but then again LI hunters do a good job taking a lot f deer and we have a lot of deer on the over priced sand bar!  My write in to them was to keep the season as it was, with limitless and doe tags and a bonus successful archer tag (as they use to do in the past) that is for either sex if a doe was taken during the first two weeks.  That went received like a fart in church.  Seemed to me like  good compromise (haha, compromise with the King!!!!).  But no such luck.

Edited August 23, 2015 by eagle rider

[NFA-ADK]

Simply put the state land I hunt has very few deer.  Population control in these area's is not needed.  Yet the area's that do need it are usually hard to get access to causing basically NO hunting in the area with high populations.  As more hunters pound the state lands these deer find sanctuary in these residential areas.

 

You want population control.  This is what is needed. 

1)Stop making us get signed waivers to hunt in residential areas.  If the home owner allows us in we should not need to get permision from every other house in the area.

2)Stop preventing us from shooting MORE deer.  It does not matter if they are a buck.  Bucks cause as much damage if not more than doe.  I understand they can not reproduce yet they can still cause car accidents, plant damage and are part of the population issue. 

3)Get the earn a tag system back in place, give us more reasons to get into the woods by giving out extra buck tags for every 2-3 doe shot.  This will get us hunters to participate more in culling the population and added incetive to take more doe.

 

Otherwise keep experimenting and see the results of diminished hunters in the field.

[eagle rider]

Simply put the state land I hunt has very few deer.  Population control in these area's is not needed.  Yet the area's that do need it are usually hard to get access to causing basically NO hunting in the area with high populations.  As more hunters pound the state lands these deer find sanctuary in these residential areas.

 

You want population control.  This is what is needed. 

1)Stop making us get signed waivers to hunt in residential areas.  If the home owner allows us in we should not need to get permision from every other house in the area.

2)Stop preventing us from shooting MORE deer.  It does not matter if they are a buck.  Bucks cause as much damage if not more than doe.  I understand they can not reproduce yet they can still cause car accidents, plant damage and are part of the population issue. 

3)Get the earn a tag system back in place, give us more reasons to get into the woods by giving out extra buck tags for every 2-3 doe shot.  This will get us hunters to participate more in culling the population and added incetive to take more doe.

 

Otherwise keep experimenting and see the results of diminished hunters in the field.

Who makes you get waivers from any other land owner than those who's land your hunting?  I hunt some private lands in Suffolk and I only need permission from the land owner who's property you are hunting.  If I have to get a deer off another person's land I have to get permission.  But that is no different than anywhere else.