1 and done.

[Doc]

Shooting a doe or small buck will always put you out of the game. That's why I take my doe with the smoke pole and I still fail to see why it matters if I shoot her with a bow or gun.

The DEC has apparently decided that bowhunters are now charged with the responsibility of managing the herd size but, it is not necessary to do so when gun hunting. So apparently in their mind it does make a difference whether you do it in bow season or gun season.....lol. Don't bother trying to make any sense out of it .... apparently the DEC isn't burdened with logic.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes, I do generally respond in kind when somebody can't seem to carry on a civil debate, as has been my experience with you on far too many occasions. Some people think they can say anything they want, and I am not supposed to return fire. Well sorry it doesn't work that way.

 

Funny, you usually seem to be the one firing the first shots. Im guilty of the same thing now and again, just making an observation.

 

[Doc]

Funny, you usually seem to be the one firing the first shots. Im guilty of the same thing now and again, just making an observation.

 

I think if you read all of the replies you will find that that is not true. I'm generally very careful about that.

[Doc]

I find it funny how some of you fail to see how most hunters really are in NY. I've been dealing with them for almost 30 years. Spoken to thousands of hunters and although there are a few factions out there that are a bit more educated on whitetails, habitats, and management. The vast majority of hunters know little ( and simply don't care ) about any of that. Hence the reason why the DEC knows they can run willy nilly with the statements and regulations they put out. Like I said earlier, in your inner circle you may find the same mindset as you, but beyond that inner circle lies a vast population of hunters that can't be bothered with learning anything about real deer management, population control, biology.. etc. That is the way it is... so there will always be complaining, opinions that differ and so on... but deer hunting seems to go on despite it all... there will probably never be a hunting Utopia in NYS.. so make the most of what you're given, have some fun, express your opinions and move on... in the scheme of things it isn't worth losing a ton of sleep over... it just makes for good conversation among hunters.

I agree that many, perhaps even most, hunters may be very, very casual about their hunting, and may not really see any need for involvement beyond going out and having a great time. Most of them maybe go out on opening day only during their season. And I would be very surprised if any of these guys worried a bit about real deer management, population control, biology.. etc. To them it is like bowling. They just do it but don't really care who maintains the alleys. Just human nature I guess. Their involvement in hunting is so slight that they don't feel a need for knowing anymore than pulling the trigger. That is just the nature of hunting today, and likely has always been that way. 

[jjb4900]

I've been saying for a long time that many greatly overestimate the amount of hunters who keep on top of new proposals and regulations.......like stated above, many, and probably the greater majority of license holders, take a very casual approach to it.........

[Five Seasons]

I've been saying for a long time that many greatly overestimate the amount of hunters who keep on top of new proposals and regulations.......like stated above, many, and probably the greater majority of license holders, take a very casual approach to it.........

 

Consider there's what? Roughly 200k tags sold every year. We know some aren't used, we know some are bought by wives and sisters and we know others who hunt without tags at all. So lets just say out of the 200k I bet it's roughly 10k who are really passionate hunters. Totally pulling that number out of my butt, and you do not need to be a member of this website to show your passion, but statistically with most things in life there are the dedicated passionate 10% and on the flip side there is the bottom 10% full of poachers and sloppy hunters.

 

Just a thought, but I agree that similarly with the safe act. The majority just really dont care... or care enough.

[G-Man]

So here is the real question , of the dedicated hunters, who here stops looking for a buck after they shoot one . There by not trying to fill your 2nd tag. Be honest....

if I get a target buck with archery I look for a secondary target during gun or muzzleloader.

I have filled my 2 tags 6x in last 10 years, but I also take 3 weeks vacation 2 for bow 1 for gun.. if I am forced to 1 tag it will be for archery and I'd pretty much give up gun season, I just don't find it challenging with out possibility of another buck, it's to the point if I see a deer with gun it's in range and shootable. Not so with bow..always a twig or something in way....lol

[Five Seasons]

So here is the real question , of the dedicated hunters, who here stops looking for a buck after they shoot one . There by not trying to fill your 2nd tag. Be honest....

if I get a target buck with archery I look for a secondary target during gun or muzzleloader.

I have filled my 2 tags 6x in last 10 years, but I also take 3 weeks vacation 2 for bow 1 for gun.. if I am forced to 1 tag it will be for archery and I'd pretty much give up gun season, I just don't find it challenging with out possibility of another buck, it's to the point if I see a deer with gun it's in range and shootable. Not so with bow..always a twig or something in way....lol

 

1 buck would certainly kill my gun season as well... or perhaps I become more selective and possibly get no horns at all.

 

In all honesty I try to shoot a 2.5 or older during archery and then i'm strictly trophy hunting for gun. But it gets me out there. Then if all goes according to plan I'll harvest a doe or 2 for meat. It's a self-inflicted OBR with the opportunity to shoot a wall mounter if it presents itself. It usually doesn't. haha.

 

[Trial153]

If you apply the 90/10 rule which is pretty sound in regards to hunting there is certainty that a good percentage of the 10% is filling their second buck tag on a a regular bases.

A one buck rule especially in the marginal habitat area ( roughly 2/3 of the states) makes a lot of sense.

I bow hunt for whitetails for three weeks yearly, in two states that are both one buck states, and the hunting opportunity in both is better then probably 95% of NY.

I won't even go into the obscenely long gun season that hits a large portion of the rut......

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If you apply the 90/10 rule which is pretty sound in regards to hunting there is certainty that a good percentage of the 10% is filling their second buck tag on a a regular bases.

A one buck rule especially in the marginal habitat area ( roughly 2/3 of the states) makes a lot of sense.

I bow hunt for whitetails for three weeks yearly, in two states that are both one buck states, and the hunting opportunity in both is better then probably 95% of NY.

I won't even go into the obscenely long gun season that hits a large portion of the rut......

So True...Take gun's out of any part of the rut and you just made yourself a great hunting state. Simple!

[WNYBuckHunter]

So here is the real question , of the dedicated hunters, who here stops looking for a buck after they shoot one . There by not trying to fill your 2nd tag. Be honest....

if I get a target buck with archery I look for a secondary target during gun or muzzleloader.

I have filled my 2 tags 6x in last 10 years, but I also take 3 weeks vacation 2 for bow 1 for gun.. if I am forced to 1 tag it will be for archery and I'd pretty much give up gun season, I just don't find it challenging with out possibility of another buck, it's to the point if I see a deer with gun it's in range and shootable. Not so with bow..always a twig or something in way....lol

 

Yes, I look for another buck, but its only because I have the tag. As far as my priorities for the deer I kill go, filling my freezer and helping the farmer fill his DMAPs are higher on the list than putting a rack on the wall. If I shoot a buck, its the icing on the cake. If I only have one buck tag, and fill it on opening day of bow season, Im still gonna be out there hunting the rest of the season. Its not all about the trophy for me.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 buck would certainly kill my gun season as well... or perhaps I become more selective and possibly get no horns at all.

 

In all honesty I try to shoot a 2.5 or older during archery and then i'm strictly trophy hunting for gun. But it gets me out there. Then if all goes according to plan I'll harvest a doe or 2 for meat. It's a self-inflicted OBR with the opportunity to shoot a wall mounter if it presents itself. It usually doesn't. haha.

 

 

So then its not a self inflicted OBR

[nyantler]

I agree that many, perhaps even most, hunters may be very, very casual about their hunting, and may not really see any need for involvement beyond going out and having a great time. Most of them maybe go out on opening day only during their season. And I would be very surprised if any of these guys worried a bit about real deer management, population control, biology.. etc. To them it is like bowling. They just do it but don't really care who maintains the alleys. Just human nature I guess. Their involvement in hunting is so slight that they don't feel a need for knowing anymore than pulling the trigger. That is just the nature of hunting today, and likely has always been that way. 

Hence, the reason why you'll find opinions all over the map when a new regulation or recommendation is purposed. It is definitely the way it is and I too don't see it changing ever. I do find that knowing a little bit about all of it gives one a tad bit more credibility when discussing hunting related issues. But, God bless the hunter that foregoes all the knowledge for having a great time... above it all that is always really my motivation for hunting as well.

[Doc]

if I am forced to 1 tag it will be for archery and I'd pretty much give up gun season, I just don't find it challenging with out possibility of another buck

And, I'll bet that's the way it is with most hunters. The title of this thread may be more on target than the thread author thought. "1 and done" may be exactly the real result that OBR produces. And I wonder how that result would impact the harvest of does in those areas where high populations are a problem. No, I don't really wonder.....lol.

[Trial153]

And, I'll bet that's the way it is with most hunters. The title of this thread may be more on target than the thread author thought. "1 and done" may be exactly the real result that OBR produces. And I wonder how that result would impact the harvest of does in those areas where high populations are a problem. No, I don't really wonder.....lol.

You might want to check the harvest numbers for antler-less deer in some one buck states. It's pretty clear that they have no problem killing copious amounts of does.

All this amounts to is another " I won't like it " so we shouldn't rational for keeping the status quo.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Trial153

[Doc]

You might want to check the harvest numbers for antler-less deer in some one buck states. It's pretty clear that they have no problem killing copious amounts of does.

All this amounts to is another " I won't like it " so we shouldn't rational for keeping the status quo.

No what this amounts to is a bit of inspection of potential negatives rather than just charging headlong into a plan simply because it sounds good on the surface. And I do have to wonder about whether the grass really is greener on the other side of the state line as everyone seems to want to say when they are enthusiastic about some of these cure-alls.

[WNYBuckHunter]

No what this amounts to is a bit of inspection of potential negatives rather than just charging headlong into a plan simply because it sounds good on the surface. And I do have to wonder about whether the grass really is greener on the other side of the state line as everyone seems to want to say when they are enthusiastic about some of these cure-alls.

 

What part of it being a proven success in many states dont you get? Also, at no point has anyone ever implied it was a cure all, but you just cant seem to stop throwing that turd into the conversation.

[phade]

Yeah, I guess my phone and feed blowing up of all those dead velvet Kentucky bucks is just a fluke.

[nyantler]

I've had non-resident hunters tell me how good NY deer hunting is compared to other states... makes me chuckle because usually just before that I heard a NYer say just the opposite. Hunter cooperation in other states is way better than here... NY hunters are a fickle group... harder to manage than the deer herd!

[nyantler]

I have a great idea.. tell hunters that they can use as many buck tags as they like until they kill the buck of their dreams and watch them come running to support that reg...

[phade]

I've had non-resident hunters tell me how good NY deer hunting is compared to other states... makes me chuckle because usually just before that I heard a NYer say just the opposite. Hunter cooperation in other states is way better than here... NY hunters are a fickle group... harder to manage than the deer herd!

 

I hunt in arguably one of the better areas for NY. I've also hunted mediocre Midwest areas (by their standards) and plenty of mid-atlantic/southern areas. Are we better than say Florida? Yes.

 

I'll take that mediocre Midwest hunting any day of the week over NY.

 

I also do not believe for one second we as a state are more fickle than other states' hunter populations. Southerners running dogs, Midwesterners baiting and supplemental feeding, etc. They're just as fickle as us, no better, no worse. Yet other states' entities can get stuff done.

Edited September 9, 2015 by phade

[Doc]

I guess the old "grass is greener" syndrome can apply to hunting too .... lol. Perhaps our deer management should just consist of blindly copying all the other states. But then since none of them have all the same answers to all the same problems, how do we decide which one has it right?...lol.

 

Which ones of all those "perfectly managed" states has the same human population densities, hunting pressures, variety of terrain, land use, and habitat, and extreme weather zones that we have? 

 

No I am not saying that there are not some ideas that we can successfully borrow from other states. But I also am not ready to assume that just because some other state has adopted any of these programs, that it automatically is some magic bullet for NY. I'm sure there is a bit more to management than just copying other states. But then, I am no better than any of the other armchair game managers on this site. We all do a heck of a job of game management when we get in front of our computers......right?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I guess the old "grass is greener" syndrome can apply to hunting too .... lol. Perhaps our deer management should just consist of blindly copying all the other states. But then since none of them have all the same answers to all the same problems, how do we decide which one has it right?...lol.

 

Which ones of all those "perfectly managed" states has the same human population densities, hunting pressures, variety of terrain, land use, and habitat, and extreme weather zones that we have? 

 

No I am not saying that there are not some ideas that we can successfully borrow from other states. But I also am not ready to assume that just because some other state has adopted any of these programs, that it automatically is some magic bullet for NY. I'm sure there is a bit more to management than just copying other states. But then, I am no better than any of the other armchair game managers on this site. We all do a heck of a job of game management when we get in front of our computers......right?

True but some of us do a heck of a job with our own properties and have some hunting just like those other states. We have mature bucks chasing does in the wide open bean and cornfield, In broad daylight every year. We have so many people stop and say..Hey there we were wondering if we could hunt? There is a huge buck running around down near that pond right now! Ny can be a great hunting state for most parts but other parts of the state never will be. Just the way it is in most all states.

 

The part i dont get is people complaining about poor hunting in their area. A 2 hour trip in many directions will put hunters in deer rich areas with great hunting.  The old saying of..(You get out what you put in) holds true in most cases.

[A Sportsman]

That's it in a nutshell for me doc. For one, These states do not have the biggest city in the country in them. How many hunters from nyc and Long Island flock to all over upstate each year. What percentage of Catskills and adk hunters actually live there? Very very few. To not take things like this into account is shortsighted in my view.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I guess the old "grass is greener" syndrome can apply to hunting too .... lol. Perhaps our deer management should just consist of blindly copying all the other states. But then since none of them have all the same answers to all the same problems, how do we decide which one has it right?...lol.

 

Which ones of all those "perfectly managed" states has the same human population densities, hunting pressures, variety of terrain, land use, and habitat, and extreme weather zones that we have? 

 

No I am not saying that there are not some ideas that we can successfully borrow from other states. But I also am not ready to assume that just because some other state has adopted any of these programs, that it automatically is some magic bullet for NY. I'm sure there is a bit more to management than just copying other states. But then, I am no better than any of the other armchair game managers on this site. We all do a heck of a job of game management when we get in front of our computers......right?

 

Cant have a single post without calling one rule change a magic bullet, or a cure all can you? I know you arent ignorant enough to really believe that anyone that knows anything about deer management would think there is such a thing. Nobody said any state is perfect, just that some other states are alot better than NY in the way they manage deer. But just keep blowing what is said out of proportion, twisting words and statements so you can try to justify your opinions.

 

Also, you complain about proven management practices, you complain about new ideas, you say the DEC has no idea what its doing. Its gotten to the point of being just plain funny.