1 and done.

[A Sportsman]

i guess that's what it will come down to. Hunter preference. IS it fair between hunters? Yes. We'd all be in same boat. But does it disregard whether or not a specific area needs it? Also yes.

[Trial153]

If this tread is any indication of the type of feedback the DEC receives then it's no wonder NY deer hunting ranks at the bottom of barrel.

The pro OBR side gives explanations as to why it would benefit the deer herd and NY hunting.

And the Status quo group says leave it as is because I said so.

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[A Sportsman]

I'd have have to pass on every single buck regardless of size with the bow for a month and a half on long island (a place loaded with deer) just to be able to hunt deer at my camp upstate. I guess for some people that's not too big a deal. But I gotta tell you, it sounds terrible to me.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Cant make everyone happy and they look at it that way. It will be Ar..It will be OBR or it will be doe only all year long if thats what it takes for them to get the job done.  Cant believe they really care what most hunters think.

 

They are so understaffed they cant take care of whats on their plate now.  Any rules that have to do with the need of more payroll will never be seen thats for sure!

[phade]

I'd have have to pass on every single buck regardless of size with the bow for a month and a half on long island (a place loaded with deer) just to be able to hunt deer at my camp upstate. I guess for some people that's not too big a deal. But I gotta tell you, it sounds terrible to me.

 

So, we'd have to choose when to shoot our buck too. Gun season likely would be nothing but doe killing because our archery season will have included the buck kill.

 

Fair is fair.

[Doc]

Cant make everyone happy and they look at it that way. It will be Ar..It will be OBR or it will be doe only all year long if thats what it takes for them to get the job done.  Cant believe they really care what most hunters think.

 

They are so understaffed they cant take care of whats on their plate now.  Any rules that have to do with the need of more payroll will never be seen thats for sure!

It's not just a payroll issue, I believe there is a genuine antagonistic attitude in the DEC. There is now an adversarial condition between hunters and the DEC that I have been feeling developing for quite a while, especially as regards bowhunters.

[fasteddie]

I havn't shot a buck in a couple years . Last year I put 2 does in the freezer . I shot was what available to me . I had more tags but no more opportunities . I take the deer for the freezer not for the antlers .

[A Sportsman]

Phade, I Don't think it's very fair for people who gun hunt in areas where you won't be allowed to shoot a doe.

That asIde I don't see why "fair" needs to be such an important part of the regulations. We have always had different regs around the state. Deer Rabbit and squirrel season length varies. on Long Island we have a 5 day fall turkey season and no spring turkey season, etc. etc. I've been hunting under an AR rule that I hate for he past 5 years, While most of state hasn't. That's not fair. (Not that it has effected my hunts all that much).

Phade, I almost never disagree with your opinions on deer hunting. oBR is the exception. As fsw said, not everyone will be happy. I won't be.

[sssurfertim]

WNY buck hunter, If I shoot a buck in 1C I would be done with bucks for the season. And Since there is no doe harvest allowed in 3a, and never will be, I will not be able to hunt deer there. With the low amount of hunters, let alone successful hunters in 3a, the one buck rule will do virtually nothing in that area. So basically i will be giving up opportunity, in my case in the area that I grew to love the hunting tradition in, for no reason at all. Explain how that makes sense. Maybe I am slow on the uptake?

I gun hunt on tens of thousands of acres in areas where virtually no one goes, yet somehow I'm supposed to start going somewhere else in another part of the state to look for a doe? That's what my gun season is reduced to?

I realize I could save my buck tag by not using it for bow. But we have a 4 month bow season on Long Island. That is something that is unreasonable to ask me to do.

Exactly what I said a few pages back, in the same boat LI and Catskills Hunter. I think if anything they should make it one buck per REGION. Two total per season.

[Doc]

I will call you out on that wide brush stroke.

 

How many antlerless did YOU shoot in the affected WMUs? I shot four this past season. Four. Not one, not two, not three....but FOUR. Bow, gun, and MZ. And I am not unique. My phone fills up with tons of people who lay down the does in these WMUs, even in bow.

 

Debate all you want, you can go pound sand if I choose to pass on a doe in the first week of Nov. this season. I killed more than my "required" contribution to get the job done and will likely do so again this year. My mentality is precisely what the DEC needs - one that gets the job done, yet demands more of an organization that is inept and one that needs to work toward not being so. Compare that to people who complain, yet pass off everything as not being "the way things were" and displaying fear-mongering of taking a buck tag away to better manage a resource as if some social liberty is being compromised to the detriment of the old guard - and basically refusing to acknowledge that the management discipline is about as far from a fad as one can get. Quite frankly, its those people with their head in the sand that slow down the ability for adaptations that should be discussed or considered given the conditions. Add in the mix an agency who shoves it down our throats, and it's a pretty bad spot for people with my mentaility. You and the DEC make great partners in their current state. I like to think I'd be a great partner with what the DEC should be.

Really? You calling me out. What is this ... 6-guns at high noon? ..... lol.

 

I got nothing during bow season, and shot the two does in gun season that I had permits for. Why? .... was this a contest? I would have tried harder if I had known that I was in a competition .... lol.

 

So anyway, what the hell set you off in such a pissed off spring loaded condition. My gosh calm down a bit and take whatever it is that you take to get yourself back under control. I am just telling you what I have heard people say, and what I have read authors in magazines preaching. I am not trying to claim that I have run some kind of poll or anything. Maybe you have ..... Have you? We don't seem to agree on our personal experiences, but don't take that as a reason to begin some kind of feud for cripe sake. I know you like to set yourself up as some kind outdoor wizard who is never wrong, but try not to take it so personal when someone has a different set of experiences than you and sincerely offers an opinion on things. Opinions are not really a declaration of war.

 

Also, I don't have any idea what you think my attitude is toward the DEC. I couldn't make much of anything out of all that "and the way things were" nonsense, and the fear-mongering, and complaints about people who dare to complain, and whatever all that rambling spewing was supposed to be all about. So I won't even comment on that.

 

All I can say is that if you want to have an intelligent discussion, try starting off without that chip on your shoulder and understand that not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy. Conversation is a lot easier when you stay calm and drop the paranoia. Nobody is really out to get ya'.

 

[phade]

Really? You calling me out. What is this ... 6-guns at high noon? ..... lol.

I got nothing during bow season, and shot the two does in gun season that I had permits for. Why? .... was this a contest? I would have tried harder if I had known that I was in a competition .... lol.

So anyway, what the hell set you off in such a pissed off spring loaded condition. My gosh calm down a bit and take whatever it is that you take to get yourself back under control. I am just telling you what I have heard people say, and what I have read authors in magazines preaching. I am not trying to claim that I have run some kind of poll or anything. Maybe you have ..... Have you? We don't seem to agree on our personal experiences, but don't take that as a reason to begin some kind of feud for cripe sake. I know you like to set yourself up as some kind outdoor wizard who is never wrong, but try not to take it so personal when someone has a different set of experiences than you and sincerely offers an opinion on things. Opinions are not really a declaration of war.

Also, I don't have any idea what you think my attitude is toward the DEC. I couldn't make much of anything out of all that "and the way things were" nonsense, and the fear-mongering, and complaints about people who dare to complain, and whatever all that rambling spewing was supposed to be all about. So I won't even comment on that.

All I can say is that if you want to have an intelligent discussion, try starting off without that chip on your shoulder and understand that not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy. Conversation is a lot easier when you stay calm and drop the paranoia. Nobody is really out to get ya'.

More of the same from you. Complain and dismiss anything that changes. Whine about this antler fetish and say my statement is further evidence of the mentality that handicaps the dec when i put my money where my mouth is proving your BS is just that. My mentality is exactly what the DEC needs. You should ask Curmudgeon if his name is for sale, Doc is getting a bit misleading. Edited September 5, 2015 by phade

[WNYBuckHunter]

i guess that's what it will come down to. Hunter preference. IS it fair between hunters? Yes. We'd all be in same boat. But does it disregard whether or not a specific area needs it? Also yes.

 

Again, its not about need.

[First-light]

The one thing he guys said about the time before 1 buck rule everyone was always pitted against each other, our own worst enemy………..

[upstatehunter]

Again, its not about need.

So is it not up to us as hunters on what happens, or up to the DEC on what happens?

[Doc]

More of the same from you. Complain and dismiss anything that changes. Whine about this antler fetish and say my statement is further evidence of the mentality that handicaps the dec when i put my money where my mouth is proving your BS is just that. My mentality is exactly what the DEC needs. You should ask Curmudgeon if his name is for sale, Doc is getting a bit misleading.

You always seem to think that every comment is aimed at you, and personalize everything. Not everything on this forum is about you ..... honestly...lol. However, I will add that if the shoe fits, wear it.

[phade]

You always seem to think that every comment is aimed at you, and personalize everything. Not everything on this forum is about you ..... honestly...lol. However, I will add that if the shoe fits, wear it.

More deflection and more of the same for you. Your wide brush strokes are getting old, as is this mentality that anything outside of your personal comfort zone is a fad, or is a change to resist against. Your inability to get over the resistance to change is exactly why hunting quality never gets better in NY. Try to play the game and critique the DEC but under the veil, your ability to dismiss change really is as bad or worse than any poor sap who decides to pass a doe during the rut.

[Doc]

More deflection and more of the same for you. Your wide brush strokes are getting old, as is this mentality that anything outside of your personal comfort zone is a fad, or is a change to resist against. Your inability to get over the resistance to change is exactly why hunting quality never gets better in NY. Try to play the game and critique the DEC but under the veil, your ability to dismiss change really is as bad or worse than any poor sap who decides to pass a doe during the rut.

My gosh are you still going at it? For crying out loud, give it a rest. Are you having some kind of breakdown or something?

[phade]

My gosh are you still going at it? For crying out loud, give it a rest. Are you having some kind of breakdown or something?

ill let you have the last word on it and i wont post on the matter after this, because your dna is hardwired to always be right and resist change. Good day curmudgeon. Edited September 6, 2015 by phade

[phade]

The one thing he guys said about the time before 1 buck rule everyone was always pitted against each other, our own worst enemy………..

We keep saying that, but in reality, our damage done not agreeing is minimal to the DEC. We can disagree all we want but were not changing the rules no matter how much the DEC says we have a voice. We dont, and the DEC does what they want to their agenda. So we can disagree all we want, but in the end it still doesnt change the result. Edited September 6, 2015 by phade

[WNYBuckHunter]

So is it not up to us as hunters on what happens, or up to the DEC on what happens?

 

 

We as hunters have the opportunity to express our opinions, but what happens is based on more than just us. Unfortunately the DEC is driven by politics, and not biologists and wildlife management focused people. Until that happens, we are at the whim of groups that speak the loudest, and not always those that speak for the best interests of everyone.

 

Carrying capacity needs to take the primary role in management decisions, some areas are just not capable of holding large numbers of deer. After that, hunter satisfaction, landowner needs and issues, etc come into play. Most changes that need to be made to improve hunting and herd health in alot of areas are going to make someone mad, the DEC should be making changes that are effective, take the least amount away from everyone today, and have a positive effect for everyone in the long run.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My gosh are you still going at it? For crying out loud, give it a rest. Are you having some kind of breakdown or something?

 

Is it possible for you to have a debate with someone without ending it with a bunch of deflection and some sort of personal attack?

[nyantler]

Here's a very frequent quote that I hear over and over from those that are "big buck hunters". "Most hunters never give the rutting big bucks a chance to come through because they are busy shooting the does that the bucks are following". These people will refuse to shoot the does because they are convinced that there may be a big buck following them up. Those guys are so hung up on bucks/antlers that they will never shoot a doe for fear that they will mess up the opportunity at the possible buck following that doe or group of does. Now I don't want to start a great debate on that little pearl of wisdom, but remarks such as that show a definite mindset or reluctance to shoot does because of the big buck/antler fixation. How widespread is that attitude? I have no data (nor does anyone else), but I hear and read those sentiments quite frequently such that I believe it is not an insignificant number of hunters. So, is it any wonder that it is hard to get cooperation from hunters to thin the doe numbers. There is a need for an educational campaign among hunters and those that are entering the ranks of hunting. Maybe we even need a bit of a de-programing campaign to set the hunter antler fetish in its proper perspective and convince hunters that it is in their best interests to take does.

 

I would tend to agree with that... I have a bit of that sometimes myself... although I never fail to fill my doe tags... I just happen to save them for another time during the season to allow me to be in the woods all season. I have certainly heard and seen evidence of what you're talking about. I believe it is very common as well. I think it goes back to what I said about hunters not being as conservation minded as they might let on... again most hunters are consumers, not conservationist. I would take a doe first before killing a buck if it was required and made sense to me... I wouldn't feel like it was being forced on me unless it made absolutely no sense at all... I usually try to give the DEC the benefit of the doubt even when I'm somewhat reluctant of their motive. Honestly, most all of the newer regulation changes have little affect on my hunting experience.

[nyantler]

I find it funny how some of you fail to see how most hunters really are in NY. I've been dealing with them for almost 30 years. Spoken to thousands of hunters and although there are a few factions out there that are a bit more educated on whitetails, habitats, and management. The vast majority of hunters know little ( and simply don't care ) about any of that. Hence the reason why the DEC knows they can run willy nilly with the statements and regulations they put out. Like I said earlier, in your inner circle you may find the same mindset as you, but beyond that inner circle lies a vast population of hunters that can't be bothered with learning anything about real deer management, population control, biology.. etc. That is the way it is... so there will always be complaining, opinions that differ and so on... but deer hunting seems to go on despite it all... there will probably never be a hunting Utopia in NYS.. so make the most of what you're given, have some fun, express your opinions and move on... in the scheme of things it isn't worth losing a ton of sleep over... it just makes for good conversation among hunters.

[Doc]

My gosh are you still going at it? For crying out loud, give it a rest. Are you having some kind of breakdown or something?

Yes, I do generally respond in kind when somebody can't seem to carry on a civil debate, as has been my experience with you on far too many occasions. Some people think they can say anything they want, and I am not supposed to return fire. Well sorry it doesn't work that way.

[Five Seasons]

I would tend to agree with that... I have a bit of that sometimes myself... although I never fail to fill my doe tags... I just happen to save them for another time during the season to allow me to be in the woods all season. I have certainly heard and seen evidence of what you're talking about. I believe it is very common as well. I think it goes back to what I said about hunters not being as conservation minded as they might let on... again most hunters are consumers, not conservationist. I would take a doe first before killing a buck if it was required and made sense to me... I wouldn't feel like it was being forced on me unless it made absolutely no sense at all... I usually try to give the DEC the benefit of the doubt even when I'm somewhat reluctant of their motive. Honestly, most all of the newer regulation changes have little affect on my hunting experience.

Buck fever got the best of me 2 years ago and I shot a 5 point. Following that 5 was a nice 8.

Shooting a doe or small buck will always put you out of the game. That's why I take my doe with the smoke pole and I still fail to see why it matters if I shoot her with a bow or gun.