Retrieving Deer Question

[bubba]

An entirely different situation than someone not letting you get your deer and stealing it because it fell on their property.  They are well within your rights to stop you, but not to steal it.  Any the silly loophole that you are not reporting you killed it, just reporting it is crap in any court  it is called a harvest report tag not a I found  a deer tag.  the DEC officer told me on the phone today that agrument will not fly.

[growalot]

Ya ..phone conversation and nothing in writing...not flying from personal experience...when they say no retrieval it's not retrievable...Do you think they are coming back to the guys house to see if the deer is still there?...Also with our friend it was a deer down and a blood trail...the question to pose is can the owner of the land legally tag it...DEC said to him..... yes..... first tag on.... owns the deer...You did not pose the question like that did you?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I worked doubles all weekend.  I spoke with our local region 6 captain today.  We have been emailing back and forth.  When I get the answer from the legal dept, I will post it.  BTW the captain said emailing legal questions to the people who just answer the emails, is not a reliable way.  he suggested contacting an officer, not office personnel.  

 

 

Mr. Merrifield, I have referred your question to our legal department.  They will put together a written response for you.  It may take a little while for our legal staff to draft your answer. 

 

Your question does not have a simple cut & dry legal answer.  There are several variables that need to be taken into consideration.  There are also ethical concerns that might need to be considered.  I appreciate your patience while we work on answering your question. 

 

Captain Todd Richards

NYS Environmental Conservation Police

 

"Richards, Todd J (DEC)" <[email protected]> wrote:

Your question may be easier to explain via a telephone conversation.  If you would like to give me a call, my phone number is (315) 785-2231. 

Captain Todd Richards

NYS Environmental Conservation Police

-----Original Message-----

From: Bob Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 4:06 PM

To: dec.sm.information.R6

Subject: Question

Hello I have a question regarding a scenario at my hunting camp.  I own land in Parishville NY.  My property borders state land.  A person on state land shoots  a deer or bear and it comes onto my property.  If I deny them access to retrieve the animal, can I legally tag it since I

did not hunt it or harvest it?   Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you

---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

http://www.avast.com

 

The person that answered my email is an officer. In fact hes the Captain of Reg 8.

 

[bubba]

We shall see when I get info from the legal dept. I am sure the captain did not tell you it does not say you liked it so anyone can tag it sinc

[bubba]

And report it is nce it does not say you

[WNYBuckHunter]

Huh?

[Jmny]

Well, time will tell, apparently you missed the part were you somehow establish that you shot the deer. Yes it differs in circumstances both hunters were on state land but If you were on state land and the deer went onto private property and the landowner filled out and placed a legal carcass( harvest) tag. I believe it would legally be the landowners. Whether or not you were denied permission to recover or you trespassed. My belief is carcass ( harvest) tag is the simplest way to establish legal possesion. Now, that is just my belief based on what I believe is common sense. There is no emotional response contained in my belief. As far as stealing your deer on their private property, do you equate refusing to allow you access as them stealing. If the landowner doesn't have access to a valid carcass( harvest) tag, he can't legally possess the deer. But now assuming he doesn't have access to a carcass( harvest) permit how would you call the DEC to report a thief of your deer? What proof would you base your claim??? Seeing you can't witness them taking the deer( You were denied access) Will you admit to trespassing to say you saw them take the deer illegally. Basically you have an unfounded assumption. Believe their is a saying about assuming. And the DEC won't want to waste their man power on assumptions.

Well, I have responded to this thread enough, it's not my goal to hijack or intimidate others to accept my point of view. Just to explain my thought of reasoning. I will await the answer from those charged with enforcing the law.

PS: Would appreciate the name of the conservation officer just to verify. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem verifying your post. As he actually gets paid to enforce that very law. Let me thank you, in advance for helping to resolve this manner.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Jmny

[DirtTime]

I think Paula summed it best in two posts.

Walk away

 

 

Walk away

 

 

Is it really worth it to bring DEC/ECO/Law Enforcement  into the mix? Like mentioned, I doubt you will get to far. A search warrant for someones freezer? For a deer? I think most judges would laugh at that one. I also think no law enforcement be it basic or wildlife officers would do a "probable cause" search.

[bubba]

Huh?

. Play dumb? You are the one who said you are not tagging a deer you shot just tagging as it does not say you. Same with reporting

[jjb4900]

. Play dumb? You are the one who said you are not tagging a deer you shot just tagging as it does not say you. Same with reporting

you're last few responses made no sense, had me baffled as well..............but anyway, this made me think of another scenario, that has probably been played over and over a thousand times.........Hunter #1 shoots and wounds a deer, he tracks it with hunter #2, who is in the same hunting group as #1, and #2 is the one who gets the killing shot into it, he turns the deer HE killed over to hunter #1.....good or no good?? is it any different than finding a dead deer and tagging it??

[jjb4900]

the problem with trying to get a solid answer on a topic, from a LEO, that can have 20 different scenarios, is that the caller poses the question the way he wants and expects to get a concrete answer that can be appelid across the board......I know one who tells people "If you're calling to get an answer for a "what if" situation and then stick my name on it, you're not going to get it, call me when you have an actual situation on hand and I will make a decision and back it up with my name."......

Edited November 4, 2015 by jjb4900

[WNYBuckHunter]

. Play dumb? You are the one who said you are not tagging a deer you shot just tagging as it does not say you. Same with reporting

 

Not playing dumb, just dont understand either of your previous two posts, as they were gibberish.

[bubba]

True not playing.

[WNYBuckHunter]

We shall see when I get info from the legal dept. I am sure the captain did not tell you it does not say you liked it so anyone can tag it sinc

 

 

 

And report it is nce it does not say you

 

Those posts make sense? I see youre right back to the name calling, same as always.

 

Bottom line is, I posted written emails from the DEC to backup what Ive been told over and over, and you cant back up your statements, so you whine and piss and moan like usual. This has nothing to do with me being right, its just me passing along the info Ive been given straight from the horses mouth. You can never admit when youre wrong, so you start calling me names, etc.

[Doc]

Those posts make sense? I see youre right back to the name calling, same as always.

 

Bottom line is, I posted written emails from the DEC to backup what Ive been told over and over, and you cant back up your statements, so you whine and piss and moan like usual. This has nothing to do with me being right, its just me passing along the info Ive been given straight from the horses mouth. You can never admit when youre wrong, so you start calling me names, etc.

Come-on! Are you saying you don't understand what "I am sure the captain did not tell you it does not say you liked it so anyone can tag it sinc" means? I'm pretty sure he is talking about some kind of a tag on your sink. And you are supposed to like it. Yeah .... that's it.

[knehrke]

I'm pretty sure that what's ethical and what's legal overlap only occasionally. 

 

Life would be so much simpler is there were more societal pressure to "do the right thing", instead of using the law to justify our every action. 

 

Be careful who sees this thread. We might end up with fifty new regulations intended to clarify the situation. As if it isn't confusing enough...

[bubba]

As my mail said it will take a while. I have no t received a response yet. When I do it will be posted regardless of what it says. And to clarify. The captain told me on the phone that your theory that the book does not say after you kill a deer, is at best foolish and no Court would even consider it. The same with reporting a harvest. His words were in your theory, anyone could tag any deer at any time. In other words, it made no sense. You were grasping at straws to try to make sure you were right. So you have been told this several times? Do you email every year to ask the same thing?

[Jmny]

Ok, said I wouldn't comment anymore but JJB has offered another scenario into the mix. In the situation where More than one person from the same or for that matter, differing parties both shoot and hit the same deer, sportsmanship usually is the way to proceed. This would be to evaluate if possible who placed the kill shot in the animal. But this isn't always easy. Some times it falls to who put the final shot into the deer.

However getting back to the two hunters from the same party. As long as one of the two tag the deer there is no law being broken.. Both had the license and unfilled harvest(carcass) tag available. They technically could have flipped a coin to see who's harvest tag to use. I know this evaluation will cause a stir among those,with the belief only those that kill the deer can apply there harvest tag, but tell me with no degree of uncertainty did hunter 1 or Hunter 2 kill the deer? Do you honestly thing a DEC officer would have a problem with what ever the two hunters decide? Let's see both hunters paid for the right to hunt deer. Both shot at the deer in question. Both hunters had in their possession weapons( hell of a time for aggressive disagreement). They decide between themselves whose harvest tag to use. One hunter is done for the year unless he has another tag The other gets to continue hunting for the duration of the season,

[bubba]

And FYI. Being told something more than once does not make it correct

[Lawdwaz]

The buck I shot yesterday decided to pull the plug at the very back of the neighbors land.  To drag it out via their VERY nicely manicured trail and across the side of their lawn would have been a huge advantage and saved a ton of time and months of my life...

 

The lady whose land I hunt offered to call the adjoining neighbor and secure permission.  Unfortunately the man of the family said if it was up to him, no sweat but it was NOT up to him but his wife and she said NFW. He said we could go get the deer but not go across the lawn.  I was grateful to NOT have any issues with going on to get the deer at that point, at least I didn't loose it.

[Nomad]

I don't think he was the " man" of the house.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

As my mail said it will take a while. I have no t received a response yet. When I do it will be posted regardless of what it says. And to clarify. The captain told me on the phone that your theory that the book does not say after you kill a deer, is at best foolish and no Court would even consider it. The same with reporting a harvest. His words were in your theory, anyone could tag any deer at any time. In other words, it made no sense. You were grasping at straws to try to make sure you were right. So you have been told this several times? Do you email every year to ask the same thing?

 

My theory isnt what counts, and my opinion doesnt matter, we are talking about state laws here. Feel free to go back and read, I explained how and why I was given the information each time. Im not going to repeat myself.

 

I will be very interested to see what answer you receive.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And FYI. Being told something more than once does not make it correct

 

Granted, but when you are given the same answer to the same question by 6 different people that are paid to uphold that particular law over the span of a couple of decades, you can reasonably come to the conclusion that its correct.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Come-on! Are you saying you don't understand what "I am sure the captain did not tell you it does not say you liked it so anyone can tag it sinc" means? I'm pretty sure he is talking about some kind of a tag on your sink. And you are supposed to like it. Yeah .... that's it.

 

LMAO Doc

[bubba]

Granted, but when you are given the same answer to the same question by 6 different people that are paid to uphold that particular law over the span of a couple of decades, you can reasonably come to the conclusion that its correct.

. So now you are saying you have been told that it is ok tontag a deer you did not kill because the guide does not say after you kill the deer or you can report because you are reporting a kill,not a kill you made? Ridiculous