What's wrong with the dec

[bowtech2]

After a terrible season in NY. Why does the dec want to do this.

DEC Delivers - Keeping You Connected and Informed

DEC Announces Availability of a Draft Environmental Assessment for Deer Damage Management in New York

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation sent this bulletin on 12/17/2015 01:34 PM EST

DEC Announces Availability of a Draft Environmental Assessment for Deer Damage Management in New York

Public Invited to Comment by January 15

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Acting Commissioner Basil Seggos today announced the availability of a draft Environmental Assessment (EA) entitled "White-tailed Deer Damage Management in New York." The EA, prepared by the U.S. Department of Agriculture Wildlife Services' (WS) New York Office, describes the need to manage white-tailed deer to reduce and prevent damage associated with these animals in New York; discusses potential issues associated with managing damage caused by deer; and the environmental consequences of alternatives for WS involvement in deer damage management throughout New York State.

The proposed action (preferred alternative) is to implement an integrated approach using a variety of methods to reduce deer damage. DEC issues permits to landowners, municipalities and resource management agencies to address deer damage and as a cooperating agency on this EA, DEC is encouraging the public to review and provide comments on it.

The abundance of deer in many parts of New York State is causing a myriad of problems, particularly in suburban and urban areas, where deer densities are highest. Agricultural, horticultural and silvicultural damage, impacts to biodiversity and native plant communities, and threats to human health and safety are consequences often associated with high deer populations. Deer population levels in most parts of the state are managed primarily through regulated recreational hunting, but there is typically little land accessible to hunters in developed areas.

DEC issues damage permits in situations where hunting is not able to reduce deer populations sufficiently to alleviate negative impacts. Some communities and landowners who receive permits choose to hire WS to carry out the damage reduction activities. Actions proposed in the EA could be conducted on public and private property in New York when the resource owner (property owner) or manager requests assistance, a need for action is confirmed, and agreements specifying the nature and duration of the activities to be conducted are completed. WS would conduct most deer damage management projects in urban or suburban environments and properties where access to the general public is limited due to safety or security concerns.

WS prepared the EA to facilitate planning, program management and interagency coordination, to clearly communicate with the public the analysis of the impacts of managing deer damage across the State of New York, and to consider comments from the public on the proposed action. Six types of potential adverse effects of damage management activities were analyzed in detail: effects on deer populations; effects on non-target plant and wildlife species; effects on human health and safety; effects on the socio-cultural elements of the human environment; humaneness and animal welfare concerns of methods; and effects on the regulated deer harvest. Alternatives examined in the EA include an alternative in which WS continues the current "integrated" deer damage management program; an alternative in which WS is restricted to providing technical assistance (information) only; and an alternative in which no deer damage management is conducted by WS.

The preferred alternative is for WS to continue a deer damage management program that includes the use of the full range of legal non-lethal and lethal management techniques. A major goal of the program would be to resolve and prevent damage caused by deer and to reduce threats to human safety. To meet this goal, WS, in consultation with DEC, would continue to respond to requests for assistance with, at a minimum, technical assistance, or when funding was available, operational deer damage management. Based on site-specific evaluations, property owners or managers that request assistance from WS would be provided with information regarding the use of non-lethal and lethal techniques. Preference would be given to non-lethal methods when practical and effective. After receiving any necessary DEC permits, property owners or managers could choose to implement WS' recommendations on their own, use volunteer services of private organizations, use contractual services of WS, use contractual services of other nuisance wildlife management businesses, or take no further action.

Interested parties may obtain a copy of the EA and submit comments on it by entering "APHIS-2015-0093" in the search box at the Regulations.gov website (link leaves DEC website.) Comments may also be sent to USDA APHIS Wildlife Services, 1930 Route 9, Castleton, NY 12033-9653, but electronic submission of comments is preferred. All comments must be received by the close-of-business on January 15, 2016 to receive full consideration. All comments received, including the names and addresses of those who comment, will be part of the public record and will be released for public review as required and allowed by law.

[nobody]

 I am not sure how long this posting on the DEC was, but I can see what this sportsman is also seeing. Excessive nuisance permits especially and

excessive party permits are killing the N.Y.S. herd off. I quit my membership from  a hunting club for the reasons that relate to this kill off. I live up

in northern tier and we used to come the opening of the southern tier in area 8T where we were always in the woods on opening day morning just knowing we were going

to take home some venison to help compensate for our trip costs for these hunts.

 

 Last time I hunted our posted leased land in area 8T, I would say about 6 yrs. back. On the opening morning my boy and myself from 7am to 12 noon we hear just 3 shots ?????????????

  Was there all day till sunset hrs. and absolutely saw no deer at all. Also in the afternoon we heard like 2 more shots. Oh my I thought, what ta hell are we doing in southern

 tier spending our money and time plus paying for the two of us $300.00 in club dues. When there is no deer. Over the 20 past years we have hunted this area  and you always saw

all kinds of deer. Thats when we dropped out of the club.

 

 We live up north in area 6G. One of our favorite spots was Stony Point state land. All kinds of  deer running around. Not anymore. Now back a few years when hunting was great

and there was lots of deer I heard off the grapevine that one land owner was issued 300 nuisance permits. Sounded crazy to me at the time but I heard this chatter more than once.

 It had got so good hunting there that I ran into 3 guys from the state of Maine that came all this way to hunt here. Now today It,s not even worth the gas to go over there , there,s is very few deer left

on this state land area. Also area 6G, the DEC has continued to issue a average of 16,000 doe permits each year.

 

 Is it the car insurance companies on the DEC about paying so many car/deer damage claims.DEC says it is the land owners complaining of deer damage to their crops  If we new where these places were,

saying not that this isn,t  going on. We would knock on each farmers door and say, here we are. Can we take some deer off your land ? Where is the corn crops on Stony Point area ?

 

Well I threw in our 2 cents. Maybe were wrong but to me maybe were somewhat right ? What do you hunters think???????????????

[Doc]

The DEC is simply building a case to maintain deer populations at levels that satisfy the politics of satisfying moneyed stakeholders.

 

Yes, we all remember days when hunting was exciting because of so many opportunities. Apparently the DEC has decided to put the "hunt" back into hunting.

 

And boy the explanations all fly fast and furious each year, don't they? Some of the more arrogant hunters like to blame it all on hunters who apparently have recently gotten stupid or lazy or blind, or who just simply all of a sudden don't have a clue how to hunt. And then there are the weather critics ...... it was too warm. Don't like that one, how about too many acorns ....ok how about not enough acorns? Bad winters? Predators?

 

Look, how about the answer that makes the most sense. The DEC's estimates of herd size are either mistakenly too high, or they simply are purposely distorting the numbers to support their agenda of whacking down the herd to something that is insignificant in terms  of deer damage to the various financial interests who are impacted by the deer.

 

The big question now is just how far down do they have to draw the herd size down to satisfy all those squeaky wheels that have established political control over DEC policies. I guess time will tell. And in the mean time we will listen to those that remember a better time. and we will still be amused at all of the annual excuses as to why we just aren't seeing the deer we used to. And the DEC will continue to claim higher and higher deer populations. Its all pretty fun to watch.

[thphtm]

Let's see what is going to happen the up coming hunting season, if the weather continues to be mild there are going to be more deer running around. Our forests are over grown with tall trees and no under brush  that the deer feed on, why doesn't the DEC take some of our license money and spend it on clear cutting on the state lands to improve the habitate.

[nyslowhand]

Lots of things wrong with this Environmental Assessment for Deer Damage Management in New York plan/draft! A few blatant issues that popped-out while I was reading the draft:

 

The draft was initiated by NYS agencies that want to reduce the whitetail population mainly because they view them as a nuisance. The DEC got dragged into this because it specifically involved a wildlife resource, deer.

 

This excerpt really summed up the reasoning behind this plan (APHIS-2015-0093, pg 3);

"Wildlife acceptance capacity, or cultural carrying capacity, is the limit of human tolerance for wildlife or the maximum number of a given species that can coexist compatibly with local human populations. Biological carrying capacity is the land or habitat’s ability to support healthy populations of wildlife without degradation to the species’ health or their environment during an extended period of time (Decker and Purdy 1988). Both cultural and biological carrying capacities must be considered when resolving wildlife damage problems. Those phenomena are especially important because they define the sensitivity of a person or community to a wildlife species. For any given damage situation, there are varying thresholds of tolerance exhibited by those people directly and indirectly affected by the species and any associated damage. This damage threshold determines the wildlife acceptance capacity. While the biological carrying capacity of the habitat may support higher populations of wildlife, in many cases the wildlife acceptance capacity is lower or has been met. Once the wildlife acceptance capacity is met or exceeded, people begin to implement population or damage management to alleviate damage or address threats to human health and safety."

 

Seems to be two completely different views trending within the (~37, as of this posting) posted comments to this plan. One by hunters and another by suburbanites that want deer around, just not in their yards.

 

Read the plan, form your own conclusions and post comments by 1/15/16.

 

[DirtTime]

Already a discussion on this one:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/30785-environmental-assessment-white-tailed-deer-damage-management-in-new-york/

[Skillet]

"Read the plan, form your own conclusions and post comments by 1/15/16."

 

I'm sure they'll be paying a lot of attention to comments. Yeah. Right.

[DirtTime]

Right or wrong they warned they would do some drastic things. Pretty plain to see how the reaction went over;

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/28507-get-your-vaseline-ready-ny-its-here/

 

Hard to cry over the same glass of spilled milk if you helped tip it over.

[Skillet]

And just how did we help tip it over, Rob?

It wouldn't matter how many doe we killed, they've got an agenda, & a crucial tactic to achieve the agenda, is to claim overpopulation. This was coming, no matter what.

[DirtTime]

And just how did we help tip it over, Rob?

It wouldn't matter how many doe we killed, they've got an agenda, & a crucial tactic to achieve the agenda, is to claim overpopulation. This was coming, no matter what.

Mute point.....I digress....

 

Where are these so called "over-populations"? Major urban areas. 

[Ford]

Well, there is is a huge problem with the way our forests are managed. This probably would not come in to play on LI, or some of the more urban/suburban areas, but bare with me.

 

There is a huge program to log the state lands making them more beneficial to wildlife. I posted this before, but it went unnoticed.

 

We definetly need a program like this, for many reasons. And it should be much more aggresive, like 30 to 60% in my opinion.

 

Here is the link.

 

 

http://www.eregulati...est-initiative/

[Doc]

 

Where are these so called "over-populations"? Major urban areas. 

If you look on the DEC map where the antlerless only edict was placed, you will notice that the effected areas include some urban areas, but mostly run out into rural areas as well.

[The_Field_Ager]

Mute point.....I digress....

 

 

 

Moot point, not mute. 

[The_Field_Ager]

Under UN mandate, parks like the Adirondacks are now to remain ' Ever Wild'. There will never be proper management there now, with clear cutting and so forth.  Man is evil and no longer part of nature apparently. So much for good stewardship.

[Skillet]

If you look on the DEC map where the antlerless only edict was placed, you will notice that the effected areas include some urban areas, but mostly run out into rural areas as well.

The urban areas are a given. There always have been too many deer in them, & there always will be. I think they serve as a convenient distraction. DEC likes to use words like "urban" & "suburban" to take the attention away from exactly what you said, Doc. That their idea of the areas with overpopulation extend far into rural country. I think that in most of the territory included, the average hunter present therein would argue deer are not overpopulated at all, but quite the opposite. That's at least true for a lot of us on this site, & it seems like we're a good cross-cut of the state's hunting population.

The only real overpopulation I see is that of the idiots making these proposals & trying to ram pure BS down my throat.

I saw a thread a couple days ago where people were talking about dropping a deuce in the woods, & how bad it is to leave soiled TP out there. Next year, maybe I'll get my 8N DMP's, just to use them to wipe my azz out in the woods, then mail them to the DEC.

Merry Christmas!

[Skillet]

Under UN mandate, parks like the Adirondacks are now to remain ' Ever Wild'. There will never be proper management there now, with clear cutting and so forth. Man is evil and no longer part of nature apparently. So much for good stewardship.

Yeah, the only exception will be when some habeeb decides they want to establish a muslim compound in the ADK's.

[landtracdeerhunter]

That BS Skillet, is coming from a high and alarming powerful governmental agency in this state. Who's really to blame for the decisions made forth?

 

[JFB]

This writing has been on the wall now for awhile, and I say again us sportsmen are too lazy (or dumb) to do anything to combat it. I don't know of ANY organized sporting group leading a stance against this slippery slope which is aggressively attacking deer. 

 

So time will tick on and very soon NY will be even MORE of a JOKE to hunt. Sooner than you realize it will effect YOUR hunting and YOUR backyard. I say start with a widespread boycott of buying hunting licenses to get their attention. Back to my xmas coffee. 

[G-Man]

The problem is the dec is not a game department but an enviromental organization that is run by politics with high appointed positions. Monies are used on enviroment al projects that can loosely be tied to game and fish management. Just because permits are issued doesn't mean you need to fill them.

Until nys adds an ammendment to it constitution for right to hunt and fish to be governed by game commision, nothing will ever significantly change as political pressure will some day leave us with no seasons at all.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Now with Air Guns it will open up areas to hunting that could not have guns in before. Air and Bows.with little setback rules.