Thinking about changing to slug hunting for deer. Where to begin??

[Lawdwaz]

Well I haven't had much to drink tonight .....

 

THAT could be my downfall.........

[ATbuckhunter]

Ok I have seen it more than once tho call it a faulty round call it bad luck call it anything but I have shot a deer with both a 270 and a 3030 inside 30 and had a pencil hole in and out...then killed deer out round 100 and comes out like a golf ball or better....now take a 12 g slug at 50 yards it goes in like a gumball and comes out like a baseball...same at 100...it's a better round when you don't need to shoot over 100 just bc it hurts some to shoot doesn't mean it will hurt him

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

This certainly sounds odd. I've never heard of a bullet not expanding at close range but expanding at longer ranges. May I ask what round you were using and what caliber it was?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stoneam2006]

This certainly sounds odd. I've never heard of a bullet not expanding at close range but expanding at longer ranges. May I ask what round you were using and what caliber it was?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

270 was core loc not sure grain off hand out of a savage axis

3030 was Hornady lever revolution again not sure grain off hand outta mossberg 454 tactical

Actually no longer have 3030 due to the poor performance that had on both deer taken with that rifle....both dead deer but both long tracks little blood with ok shot plcement

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ATbuckhunter]

270 was core loc not sure grain off hand out of a savage axis

3030 was Hornady lever revolution again not sure grain off hand outta mossberg 454 tactical

Actually no longer have 3030 due to the poor performance that had on both deer taken with that rifle....both dead deer but both long tracks little blood with ok shot plcement

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Hmm that is defiantly odd. Especially since 30-30 is known for being a great close quarter caliber. I've seen the damage a 30-30 can do at close range with core lokts and its not pretty. As long as your happy with the performance out of your 12 gauge, then keep with what works best for you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Berniez]

A few years ago the NRA did a study about "Brush Busters" and concluded that the Shotgun slug was actually one of the worst for being deflected....the rainbow trajectory was probably the reason. A rifle shoots flatter and you don't have the worry about Kentucky windage trying to avoid that 7-9 inch drop at 100 yards.  A rifle (esp a 270) needs a smaller opening to slip that bullet through.  I have hunted with slugs for 30 years and unless I am in my swamp the flatter shooting rifle with a smaller diameter has a much better chance of getting through without deflection.   Anecdotal information to the contrary stick with a rifle unless you enjoy that extra challenge.  In any case do what you enjoy.  Have a Happy New Year, . 

[Buckmaster7600]

An expanding rifle bullet NOT expanding at close range, but then expanding at longer range ?

It doesn't work that way. Any given bullet will tend to expand MORE at close range because of it's higher velocity.

I was thinking the same thing. That might be the most ignorant comment in this thread.

[shawnhu]

Honest to Pete...years of hearing you guys run down the accuracy of smooth bores & open sights...Well over 38 years of shooting them I call BS....If you do not know your weapon and ammo, any gun can be "sloppy". I know mine and I'd bet many others here can say the same. I Personally will take my 20ga smooth bore / bead sight from zero to 120 yrds over a scoped rifle all day long...and do.

How many shots did you take at that coyote again?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

Ok I have seen it more than once tho call it a faulty round call it bad luck call it anything but I have shot a deer with both a 270 and a 3030 inside 30 and had a pencil hole in and out...then killed deer out round 100 and comes out like a golf ball or better....now take a 12 g slug at 50 yards it goes in like a gumball and comes out like a baseball...same at 100...it's a better round when you don't need to shoot over 100 just bc it hurts some to shoot doesn't mean it will hurt him

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

One shouldn't judge the expansion, or lack thereof, by looking at the exit hole. A bullet designed to expand may very well expand and expend most of its energy early on right after entry and may be left with a fragment of the bullet at exit.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Pygmy]

One shouldn't judge the expansion, or lack thereof, by looking at the exit hole. A bullet designed to expand may very well expand and expend most of its energy early on right after entry and may be left with a fragment of the bullet at exit.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Good point, Shawn..The Nosler partition is a good example of this. Many people think of the partition as a "tough" bullet that expands slowly, because of its reputation for deep penetration.

Actually, the partition is a very fast expanding bullet. The front section expands very quickly and does a lot of damage just inside the entrance wound. The front section usually washes away and the sealed rear section stays together, retaining about 65% of the bullet's weight, and keeps penetrating, usually exiting. Exit wounds for NPs are often smaller than entrance wounds because of this. Often hunters look at the small exit wound and think the bullet did not expand properly, despite the fact that they are standing over a very dead animal.

[Buckmaster7600]

The lack of knowledge in terminal balistics is amazing. There is a lot more to the story of how a bullet performed than the size of an entry or exit hole.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Buckmaster7600

[Doc]

I find bead or ramp sights quicker to line up to make those quick shots rather using than a scope, and that eliminates the fogging in clod weather, and did I bump the scope issues.

I try real hard not to be lured into taking any "quick shots" or any kind of shots where I feel pressured for time. The scope forces me to do that. Whenever I hear the phrase "quick shot" being used, I think of scenarios of "jump-shooting" deer like rabbits with such speed that things in the background tend not to be looked at with enough scrutiny to ensure safety. Among other undeniable benefits, I see the fact that things are forcibly being slowed down as the biggest benefits in the realm of gun safety. It is just possible that one of the main reasons for the vast improvements in NYS's safety record is the proliferation of scopes in the deer woods. Not only do you automatically slow down the shooting, but you also get a magnified clear view of what's behind the target with the only vision obstruction being the thin crosshairs. I'm a big fan of scopes not only for my use, but also for those around me that are shooting in my vicinity.

 

[stoneam2006]

One shouldn't judge the expansion, or lack thereof, by looking at the exit hole. A bullet designed to expand may very well expand and expend most of its energy early on right after entry and may be left with a fragment of the bullet at exit.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Yea that may be right but I'm telling you that the hole the round punched thru these deer were ridiculously small and didn't seem to tear anything up. I mean the damage to the organs was minimal at best if it had been any worse shot probably a lost deer. Kinda like another thread posted when guys were saying they purposely aim for front shoulder bc it drops them on the spot. Rifles IMO do not provide the blood trail that a shotty does and again unless over 100 yards consistently really not any better of a choice IMO.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[growalot]

Shawn..you never disappoint!...though it took you longer than I expected..
Now I'll gladly answer that 3 times..hitting and mortally wounding it once. Three shots all on me ..not the gun ,bead,nor the ammo. If your wondering why..,It was mind set period. Well the first miss...the second shot ,I never shoot directly at running game,as in swing shooting, and he was running toward me. As Opposed to across or even away,yes that makes a difference. Now ask me how many times I shot at the buck not long after that...72 yrds(I ranged it from cut fur on trail back to blind) , in a snow fall.Once and it hit exactly where I wanted,even though his reaction had me think other wise. Now that was not a aiming at him shot...it was my being set up on an opening I had calculated he was going go pass through when he started to move again. See he was in heavy brush standing.I knew his approximate distance( previous ranging),and what path he'd take. He was on a run when he hit that spot..I had the bead set and knew when to pull the trigger. Now,all that,years of experience,and skill.The type of skill that allows me to routinely kill deer at 25-35 yrds with a bow ,not using sights. It is a mind/eye coordination I naturally have but keep tuned.
Now ask me how many deer I've lost in these years..in gun My first ever kill..yes kill for he went over the fence and died on posted land at camp..guys found him a week later exactly where I said he went(no won't trespass,but guests did searching for their deer,and no owner wouldn't give permission)...1 doe that went into the neighbors swamp and me and another neighbor couldn't get to...I lost my tag ,a knife and almost a boot.A death run straight down hill..and the biggest buck of my life..because I put a sight on my bow...and he died and was recovered,the next day..just not by me or deer search. My mistake for using the sight..sold it and the bow..for a faster bow with..no sights still. Now I'm on the PC...here is another buck I shot at 60 yrds the exact same way..just two examples That's all I have on this computer for gun  notice the consistency.

Edited December 30, 2015 by growalot

[Curmudgeon]

270 was core loc not sure grain off hand out of a savage axis

3030 was Hornady lever revolution again not sure grain off hand outta mossberg 454 tactical

Actually no longer have 3030 due to the poor performance that had on both deer taken with that rifle....both dead deer but both long tracks little blood with ok shot plcement

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

The coreloks tend to disintegrate. And, more so at higher velocities. So maybe the exit hole is smaller at close range because much of the metal is in the meat. Another good reason to use copper bullets.

 

 

 

[Northsox65]

Just to throw in my 2cents, I live in Tompkins County that is one of the few countys that is still "Shotgun" only, I love my H&R single shot 12g and it is deadly, every deer that I have shot has dropped in its tracks, now don't get me wrong if this damn county went to Rifle I would definitely be using my dads Marlin 30-30 that he has killed 100's of deer with. And for accuracy with Rifles/Shotguns Let me tell you My first shotgun was a beat up old 20 gauge Stevens my Dad bought me from a gun store back in 1975, I shot well over 5000 rounds through that gun and knew exsactly where it shot, I could shoot a fly off a cows ass at 50 yards and killed many, many deer, phesants, ducks, geese, rabbits, and partridge with that gun. The first time I went to a skeet/trap range the old timers with their expensive over/under 12 gauge laughed at me when I pulled out the old 20 gauge stevens, but earned their respect when I shot 24 out of 25 birds on my first try.

[shawnhu]

Shawn..you never disappoint!...though it took you longer than I expected..

Now I'll gladly answer that 3 times..hitting and mortally wounding it once. Three shots all on me ..not the gun ,bead,nor the ammo. If your wondering why..,It was mind set period. Well the first miss...the second shot ,I never shoot directly at running game,as in swing shooting, and he was running toward me. As Opposed to across or even away,yes that makes a difference. Now ask me how many times I shot at the buck not long after that...72 yrds(I ranged it from cut fur on trail back to blind) , in a snow fall.Once and it hit exactly where I wanted,even though his reaction had me think other wise. Now that was not a aiming at him shot...it was my being set up on an opening I had calculated he was going go pass through when he started to move again. See he was in heavy brush standing.I knew his approximate distance( previous ranging),and what path he'd take. He was on a run when he hit that spot..I had the bead set and knew when to pull the trigger. Now,all that,years of experience,and skill.The type of skill that allows me to routinely kill deer at 25-35 yrds with a bow ,not using sights. It is a mind/eye coordination I naturally have but keep tuned.

Now ask me how many deer I've lost in these years..in gun My first ever kill..yes kill for he went over the fence and died on posted land at camp..guys found him a week later exactly where I said he went(no won't trespass,but guests did searching for their deer,and no owner wouldn't give permission)...1 doe that went into the neighbors swamp and me and another neighbor couldn't get to...I lost my tag ,a knife and almost a boot.A death run straight down hill..and the biggest buck of my life..because I put a sight on my bow...and he died and was recovered,the next day..just not by me or deer search. My mistake for using the sight..sold it and the bow..for a faster bow with..no sights still. Now I'm on the PC...here is another buck I shot at 60 yrds the exact same way..just two examples That's all I have on this computer for gun notice the consistency.

Sorry to disappoint you, guess you were baiting me huh? That's about all I got from your post, the rest was just a mangled mess of grammar and misspellings I don't care to decode, but I think I got the gist of it. It's always the equipment, or the neighbors, or the stars and moon wasn't lined up, I get it. It's never you, because God forbid anyone challenged your ethics and skill.

Shooting at a running coyote 3 times and missing everyone of them, doesn't sound convincing. You still have yet to recover that coyote.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[WNYBuckHunter]

Shawn..you never disappoint!...though it took you longer than I expected..

Now I'll gladly answer that 3 times..hitting and mortally wounding it once. Three shots all on me ..not the gun ,bead,nor the ammo. If your wondering why..,It was mind set period. Well the first miss...the second shot ,I never shoot directly at running game,as in swing shooting, and he was running toward me. As Opposed to across or even away,yes that makes a difference. Now ask me how many times I shot at the buck not long after that...72 yrds(I ranged it from cut fur on trail back to blind) , in a snow fall.Once and it hit exactly where I wanted,even though his reaction had me think other wise. Now that was not a aiming at him shot...it was my being set up on an opening I had calculated he was going go pass through when he started to move again. See he was in heavy brush standing.I knew his approximate distance( previous ranging),and what path he'd take. He was on a run when he hit that spot..I had the bead set and knew when to pull the trigger. Now,all that,years of experience,and skill.The type of skill that allows me to routinely kill deer at 25-35 yrds with a bow ,not using sights. It is a mind/eye coordination I naturally have but keep tuned.

Now ask me how many deer I've lost in these years..in gun My first ever kill..yes kill for he went over the fence and died on posted land at camp..guys found him a week later exactly where I said he went(no won't trespass,but guests did searching for their deer,and no owner wouldn't give permission)...1 doe that went into the neighbors swamp and me and another neighbor couldn't get to...I lost my tag ,a knife and almost a boot.A death run straight down hill..and the biggest buck of my life..because I put a sight on my bow...and he died and was recovered,the next day..just not by me or deer search. My mistake for using the sight..sold it and the bow..for a faster bow with..no sights still. Now I'm on the PC...here is another buck I shot at 60 yrds the exact same way..just two examples That's all I have on this computer for gun  notice the consistency.

 

Sorry, but I have to call it like it is. At first you are talking about distances of 120 yards, then you offer up 2 deer that you shot at half that range as proof of consistent accuracy? I dont think anyone is questioning the ability to be reasonably accurate at short distances with a smooth bore.

[growalot]

Ya I see you read it..lets see..spell check on...I see no red lines ...never blamed anyone for anything... No I don't need to bait you..I just know you from past experience... I believe  said:

 

Three shots all on me ..not the gun ,bead,nor the ammo.

 

Also said in reference to coyote: Why would I ask permission to recover a rotting coyote? I really have nothing to prove to you..

 

  hitting and mortally wounding it once.

Edited December 30, 2015 by growalot

[growalot]

You can call me out and I do not expect any different on this site,,,but some may remember several doe I have shot and talked about the hunts out to 100-120yrds ...I do not take pics of every deer I shoot..in fact..it wasn't until I  got a digital camera did I ever take consistent pics of my bucks, Also when I joined a site that had partner deer contests  where pics are needed.

 

Remember...Lord ....how many times I need to repeat...There are too many ppl that know who I am, that view this site for me to be fool enough to lie...I have shown pics of the lane way I hunt and I have taken many a doe there..Yes I can show you a pic that is an old one from camp of a doe taken at 94 yrds by me and one a 100yrds with my gun by my sister in law( first time she ever shot my gun.) told that story a few times as well here. ...but we have changed PC several times over the years and  do not feel a need to go searching for those zip drives to post a bunch of pics...It wouldn't allow you to process what I know to be true any better...

Edited December 30, 2015 by growalot

[shawnhu]

Ya I see you read it..lets see..spell check on...I see no red lines ...never blamed anyone for anything... No I don't need to bait you..I just know you from past experience... I believe said:

Also said in reference to coyote:

I say it how it is, and if it walks like a duck...

Where's that pic of the mortally wounded coyote?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[growalot]

[growalot]

Now lets get back to the original post...He wants to use a shot gun close quarters and The advise to check the barrels he has and try different ammo stands ..Really the only thing to do to get what is his best set up. I understand wanting the shot gun...I would have lost one of my biggest bucks had I tried to shoot it using a scoped rifle...first he was coming down hill and looking, eye level at me...my gun at my side(I was more scouting than hunting at that point)  managed to get the gun up as he turned his head away from me at 10 yrds...shot him straight through the center of his heart at 30 ft...and he ran like a scalded cat..I had to swing in the woods and take a  lower neck /top of shoulder shot to stop him going to the hunter next door... I actually was repeating that in my head as I pulled the trigger on him 40yrds away.."lower neck, top of shoulder...The hit flipped him end to end on the spot...That would have never been possible with a scoped rifle, for me at least...I would have never acquired him in the sights fast enough.

Now if this is the type of thing getting the original poster to want to switch..then go for it...just make sure you have the best set up for you and your weapon.

Edited December 30, 2015 by growalot

[chiefbkt]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but deer dead on the ground don't prove gun accuracy. Pics of your 3-5 shot groups at 100 yards, that's more definitive. There are slug guns out there that are accurate as hell, I've seen them and own one. But I would never say it could compete with a rifle when it comes to overall accuracy.

Ok, since now we've turned the OP's simple question into a six of one half dozen of the other debate, Let's be honest, everyone has their own preference for short range and thick brush weaponry. Not everyone is capable of shooting as good or poorly as the next person. Not everyone knows their guns like they should. I don't think the OP is pursuing a new gun. I think he wanted to know if he should put a scope on it, use open sights, slug recommendations, and if his barrels would work. I hope he figures out his barrel situation and can get some range time in with his gun to decipher which slug is best. And hopefully he got some good advice in here amidst all of the disagreements.

[The_Real_TCIII]

^ you just take your level-headed, rational posts to another forum mister. There's no place for them here

[growalot]

That's right Chief and I'll agree...now lets just see what started this whole thing...and then show me where I said they were MORE accurate than a rifle...because what I said to that point ..I highlighted in bold....It's just again a case of demanding "if I can't do it you sure can't"

Too bad...I can't throw a football 50yrds while 4 guys are trying to slam me to the ground...Mind you finding a guy running down field through a field of guys and hitting my mark...There are quarterbacks that can

I can't throw a baseball 90+ miles an hour into a catchers mitt ,getting it to drop just so over a 17 1/2 "x8 1/2"x81/2"x12" plate 60ft 6" away...but there are pitchers that can

I'd say get my point but that would be fruitless to many

 

 

 

Honest to Pete...years of hearing you guys run down the accuracy of smooth bores & open sights...Well over 38 years of shooting them I call BS....If you do not know your weapon and ammo, any gun can be "sloppy". I know mine and I'd bet many others here can say the same. I Personally will take my 20ga smooth bore / bead sight from zero to 120 yrds over a scoped rifle all day long...and do.