OK guy's Call your lawmakers

[WNYBuckHunter]

We get it, you would rather see guns in bow season than crossbows.

For bonafide, certified, disabled hunters (registered and documented in any way that makes everyone confortable) that require that level of assistance only ...... I believe you really are starting to get it or at least pieces of it. Man that was a struggle for such a simple concept.

I knew thats what you were saying form the get go. I dont agree with it. I too thought you were going down your "might as well let guns in" road that you have taken so many times. Either way, I dont agree with guns being brought into archery season. Like I said before, you would rather see guns in bow season than crossbows, makes no sense.

[Doc]

....I dont agree with guns being brought into archery season.

But they are already here aren't they? It's been that way for a long time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

....I dont agree with guns being brought into archery season.

But they are already here aren't they? It's been that way for a long time.

What guns are in archery season?

[Doc]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

[wztirem]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

No doubt about what you refer to. However, including a special firearms season for the handicapped during bowseason may well increase the possibilty of a tragedy.

Do you know of any states which permit the handicapped to use a firearm during the early season?

[Doc]

No doubt about what you refer to. However, including a special firearms season for the handicapped during bowseason may well increase the possibilty of a tragedy.

Do you know of any states which permit the handicapped to use a firearm during the early season?

As far as I know, nobody does this for disabled hunters, but then I am not familiar with the details of season rules outside of NY.

However, if I am reading the game syllabus correctly, right here in NYS we have a bow season and muzzleloading season that overlap significantly in the northern zone.

    Bowhunting: Sep 22 - Oct 22

    m'loader:      Oct 16 - Oct 22

Also, it appears that here in the southern zone we have the last week of the late season shared by bows and m'loaders.

So there are a lot more extreme examples of guns in bow season than the relatively insignificant numbers of severely disabled  hunters that I am talking about. Having that arrangement regarding the entire general hunting population (even just the muzzleloading portion) is not something that I am real comfortable with. But, the actual numbers  of severely disabled that we are talking about is miniscule by comparison.

[sits in trees]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

Correction good Doctuer, guns are "NOT" in bow season.... in fact "Bows are in gun season", talk about looking at things with blinders on. my family was hunting small game in oct and nov with shotguns well before there was even the thought of a bow season, yea pheasant and rabbit hunters opened the woods to bow hunters, imagine that.

[sits in trees]

We get it, you would rather see guns in bow season than crossbows.

For bonafide, certified, disabled hunters (registered and documented in any way that makes everyone confortable) that require that level of assistance only ...... I believe you really are starting to get it or at least pieces of it. Man that was a struggle for such a simple concept.

yea Doc, the criteria on wether someone is eligible to hunt with a crossbow will be decided by real Doctors, not a keyboard cowboy that calls himself Doc ;D LOL...and besides soon enough everyone will be able to hunt with a crossbow in your beloved bow season anyhow, just the way it should be, so don't waste time getting yourself all worked up on who's "Bonafide" and "CERTIFIED" or not, LOL...

[WNYBuckHunter]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

And that makes a difference, how? You dont have people hunting deer with guns, the deer arent getting shot at with guns (with the exception of the occasional poacher), and they arent on ultra-high alert. Again, your logic on this just doesnt add up.

[Doc]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

And that makes a difference, how? You dont have people hunting deer with guns, the deer arent getting shot at with guns (with the exception of the occasional poacher), and they arent on ultra-high alert. Again, your logic on this just doesnt add up.

I was simply answering your question. You are the one who asked. And I guess you probably missed my reply about the overlap of muzzleloader and bow seasons that already exists in both the Northern zone and Southern zone. Come-on guy ..... Let's keep up  .

So again, you are incorrect ..... there are people using firearms during bow season and in fact some of those are deer hunting as well.

I am not sure just how many people that you envision are severely disabled to such a point that they would qualify for handgun use in bow season and who coincidentally would be interested in even doing that, but I am thinking that the number would be so small that you (and the deer) would be hard pressed to even know they would be around, especially when compared to the already existing small game gunfire. 

[nyantler]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

Correction good Doctuer, guns are "NOT" in bow season.... in fact "Bows are in gun season", talk about looking at things with blinders on. my family was hunting small game in oct and nov with shotguns well before there was even the thought of a bow season, yea pheasant and rabbit hunters opened the woods to bow hunters, imagine that.

Now there is a point well made...!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

And that makes a difference, how? You dont have people hunting deer with guns, the deer arent getting shot at with guns (with the exception of the occasional poacher), and they arent on ultra-high alert. Again, your logic on this just doesnt add up.

I was simply answering your question. You are the one who asked. And I guess you probably missed my reply about the overlap of muzzleloader and bow seasons that already exists in both the Northern zone and Southern zone. Come-on guy ..... Let's keep up  .

So again, you are incorrect ..... there are people using firearms during bow season and in fact some of those are deer hunting as well.

I am not sure just how many people that you envision are severely disabled to such a point that they would qualify for handgun use in bow season and who coincidentally would be interested in even doing that, but I am thinking that the number would be so small that you (and the deer) would be hard pressed to even know they would be around, especially when compared to the already existing small game gunfire.

If we were talking small game hunting, yes, there would be people using firearms. We arent, we are talking deer hunting and taking deer with firearms during archery season. Yes, I realize the number would be small, the point still remains that most truly disabled people dont want to be treated like they are disabled, they want to be able to participate in things as closely to anyone else as they can. They can already hunt with guns in gun season, so your guns in bow season idea doesnt make sense.

Now, I do have to say that this is kind of catching me off guard, its not your typical extremist line of thinking about crossbows. I actually never thought I would hear you say you would support the addition of guns in archery season. Actually, it is pretty extremist to support guns in archery season rather than crossbows, so I guess its more typical for you than I first thought.  ;D

[Doc]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

And that makes a difference, how? You dont have people hunting deer with guns, the deer arent getting shot at with guns (with the exception of the occasional poacher), and they arent on ultra-high alert. Again, your logic on this just doesnt add up.

I was simply answering your question. You are the one who asked. And I guess you probably missed my reply about the overlap of muzzleloader and bow seasons that already exists in both the Northern zone and Southern zone. Come-on guy ..... Let's keep up  .

So again, you are incorrect ..... there are people using firearms during bow season and in fact some of those are deer hunting as well.

I am not sure just how many people that you envision are severely disabled to such a point that they would qualify for handgun use in bow season and who coincidentally would be interested in even doing that, but I am thinking that the number would be so small that you (and the deer) would be hard pressed to even know they would be around, especially when compared to the already existing small game gunfire.

If we were talking small game hunting, yes, there would be people using firearms. We arent, we are talking deer hunting and taking deer with firearms during archery season. Yes, I realize the number would be small, the point still remains that most truly disabled people dont want to be treated like they are disabled, they want to be able to participate in things as closely to anyone else as they can. They can already hunt with guns in gun season, so your guns in bow season idea doesnt make sense.

Now, I do have to say that this is kind of catching me off guard, its not your typical extremist line of thinking about crossbows. I actually never thought I would hear you say you would support the addition of guns in archery season. Actually, it is pretty extremist to support guns in archery season rather than crossbows, so I guess its more typical for you than I first thought.  ;D

Ok, without using your favorite phrase about "cherry picking", let me suggest that you go back and read the part about muzzleloaders and bows already sharing the same season for deer hunting. Maybe that escaped you the two or three times it was included in different replies (but probably not). If you really missed it, then I now understand why I have to repeat myself endlessly before you finally understand what I am talking about.

As far as people feeling bad about receiving special treatment for their disabilities, I have to point out that that is what the proposed bill in the very first post is all about. Perhaps you are saying that that bill has no merit because some disabled people may take offense to special treatment. Well, I think you are wrong. I think they would appreciate receiving the assistance of a weapon that adequately compensates for the disability that they have. If that is a crossbow, then so be it. If their disability is a bit more severe where a crossbow simply doesn't cut it then lets at least be honest enough about what it is that we are saying that we are trying to do, and allow the appropriate weapon for the appropriate disability. I'm not sure how many times I have to say it ...... If we are going to keep all this from being just an insincere, empty piece of window-dressing then let's do something that actually accomplishes what we claim we are trying to accomplish. There's nothing extreme about that unless you believe that the whole idea of helping the disabled is extreme.

Oh, and by the way don't let it throw you that I am suggesting that a few severely disabled individuals be given the right to use a weapon that their disabilities require. You won't be seeing me supporting a notion that able bodied hunters use handguns or even crossbows or any other inappropriate weapon in bow season. Nothing has changed there. You seem to be having some difficulty grasping the concept that we are talking about the severely disabled in this thread only.

[sits in trees]

heres who we must contact fellas, sponsers and cosponsers of bill A00469 ..send letters or e-mails in support. heck even give em a call!!

 

• 
   
• Aileen M. Gunther
   
•   Albany Office  LOB 435
  Albany, NY 12248
  518-455-5355
  William Magee
   
•   Albany Office  LOB 828
  Albany, NY 12248
  518-455-4807
   
   
   
   
  

 

Nancy Calhoun      Albany Office  LOB 525

Albany, NY 12248

518-455-5441

  Michael Cusick      Albany Office  LOB 727

Albany, NY 12248

518-455-5526

  Joe Giglio      Albany Office  LOB 439

Albany, NY 12248

518-455-5241

  Félix Ortiz      Albany Office  LOB 826

Albany, NY 12248

518-455-3821

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

What guns are in archery season?

Every rifle, pistol or shotgun carried by small game hunters and Fall turkey hunters.

And that makes a difference, how? You dont have people hunting deer with guns, the deer arent getting shot at with guns (with the exception of the occasional poacher), and they arent on ultra-high alert. Again, your logic on this just doesnt add up.

I was simply answering your question. You are the one who asked. And I guess you probably missed my reply about the overlap of muzzleloader and bow seasons that already exists in both the Northern zone and Southern zone. Come-on guy ..... Let's keep up  .

So again, you are incorrect ..... there are people using firearms during bow season and in fact some of those are deer hunting as well.

I am not sure just how many people that you envision are severely disabled to such a point that they would qualify for handgun use in bow season and who coincidentally would be interested in even doing that, but I am thinking that the number would be so small that you (and the deer) would be hard pressed to even know they would be around, especially when compared to the already existing small game gunfire.

If we were talking small game hunting, yes, there would be people using firearms. We arent, we are talking deer hunting and taking deer with firearms during archery season. Yes, I realize the number would be small, the point still remains that most truly disabled people dont want to be treated like they are disabled, they want to be able to participate in things as closely to anyone else as they can. They can already hunt with guns in gun season, so your guns in bow season idea doesnt make sense.

Now, I do have to say that this is kind of catching me off guard, its not your typical extremist line of thinking about crossbows. I actually never thought I would hear you say you would support the addition of guns in archery season. Actually, it is pretty extremist to support guns in archery season rather than crossbows, so I guess its more typical for you than I first thought.  ;D

Ok, without using your favorite phrase about "cherry picking", let me suggest that you go back and read the part about muzzleloaders and bows already sharing the same season for deer hunting. Maybe that escaped you the two or three times it was included in different replies (but probably not). If you really missed it, then I now understand why I have to repeat myself endlessly before you finally understand what I am talking about.

As far as people feeling bad about receiving special treatment for their disabilities, I have to point out that that is what the proposed bill in the very first post is all about. Perhaps you are saying that that bill has no merit because some disabled people may take offense to special treatment. Well, I think you are wrong. I think they would appreciate receiving the assistance of a weapon that adequately compensates for the disability that they have. If that is a crossbow, then so be it. If their disability is a bit more severe where a crossbow simply doesn't cut it then lets at least be honest enough about what it is that we are saying that we are trying to do, and allow the appropriate weapon for the appropriate disability. I'm not sure how many times I have to say it ...... If we are going to keep all this from being just an insincere, empty piece of window-dressing then let's do something that actually accomplishes what we claim we are trying to accomplish. There's nothing extreme about that unless you believe that the whole idea of helping the disabled is extreme.

Oh, and by the way don't let it throw you that I am suggesting that a few severely disabled individuals be given the right to use a weapon that their disabilities require. You won't be seeing me supporting a notion that able bodied hunters use handguns or even crossbows or any other inappropriate weapon in bow season. Nothing has changed there. You seem to be having some difficulty grasping the concept that we are talking about the severely disabled in this thread only.

I know that MLs share the late season with bows, what does that have to do with the majority of archery season?

Doc, if someone's disability is as severe as you are talking about, then a rig for a crossbow is just as effective and easy to use as one would be for a handgun, so why not just keep archery equipment in archery season instead of letting guns in? Letting guns into archery season is more extreme than crossbows. I have no difficulty is grasping what you are saying. 

[Doc]

I know that MLs share the late season with bows, what does that have to do with the majority of archery season?

Doc, if someone's disability is as severe as you are talking about, then a rig for a crossbow is just as effective and easy to use as one would be for a handgun, so why not just keep archery equipment in archery season instead of letting guns in? Letting guns into archery season is more extreme than crossbows. I have no difficulty is grasping what you are saying. 

Look, you were the one who brought up the question of guns during bow season. Now you want to modify your question with it has to be a majority of the season? I'm just telling you (again) that there already are guns used for deer hunting during the bow season. You asked ..... I answered.

I absolutely disagree with your statement on crossbows being as easy to use as a handgun. That doesn't make me right and you wrong, but I simply have a vision of a one armed hunter trying to load, aim and shoot a crossbow, and I am not picturing that as being something that is reasonable to expect. I'm not saying it can't be done because I have seen people do amazing things. Heck, I have seen a girl shoot a bow with her feet..... lol.

And you can stop trying to make it sound like I am advocating opening up gun season for anyone who wants to use a handgun. I already addressed that.

I still hold that the original bill that lead off this discussion is exclusionary, and I have offered a concept for fixing  that. If you feel that there are some disabled people that shouldn't be accomodated, that's your decision. I don't happen to agree.

However, I am not composing a bill or writing letters to legislators or even campaigning for the change. I am simply offering up the concept. If you don't agree with it, that's not really a problem. There's probably no need for endless post after post repeating the same stuff. It's getting rather circular now and not really all that interesting, unless you have some new aspect to the discussion.

[Dave]

I agree. Doc, I think this topic had ran its course, full circle. Losing interest in hashing up same old stuff lets move on. But it was a great debate and everyone was heard.

Dave

[WNYBuckHunter]

I still hold that the original bill that lead off this discussion is exclusionary, and I have offered a concept for fixing  that. If you feel that there are some disabled people that shouldn't be accomodated, that's your decision. I don't happen to agree.

That part of your reply is where you are the most full of it. I am saying no such thing. All you have offered is throwing guns into archery season. Look, you are the one that has now see sawed from saying there are already guns in archery season because people are hunting small game, to there are guns in archery season because of late ML/bow season. Please, all you are doing with that crap is nit picking to try and justify your point.

The bottom line is that many disabled people cannot hunt the majority of archery season because they cannot effectively use a vertical bow. A crossbow would help because it can be rested on a bipod or something similar, thus enabling said one armed man to shoot effectively. You are never ever going to be able to fit everyone into anything, so you can stop with that nonsense. The crossbow would be a great fit for many disabled people to use in archery season, its better than what they have now, and Id rather see it allowed rather than a gun of any type.

If you dont agree, fine, but dont sit there and try to say that I dont care about this person or that person or otherwise try to vilify my opinion just because it isnt shared by you. I like your proclimation that the thread is done and not worthy of discussion anymore. What are you, the thread nazi? 

[Doc]

I like your proclimation that the thread is done and not worthy of discussion anymore. What are you, the thread nazi? 

I am saying that this thread is getting circular and redundant and is starting to bore the heck out of me. I'm getting weary of repeating myself. If that's what you like to do, by all means, carry on with it to your heart's content. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do ..... lol. I'm just telling you what I'm going to do. If some new and interesting viewpoint comes up on the subject that strikes my interest, I may jump back in, but right now it seems like the old season re-runs. Is that being a "thread nazi" (whatever that is).  :-\

[wztirem]

I guess you are taking a well needed time out. I for one will not hold my breath waiting for you to jump back in :-*

[WNYBuckHunter]

I like your proclimation that the thread is done and not worthy of discussion anymore. What are you, the thread nazi? 

I am saying that this thread is getting circular and redundant and is starting to bore the heck out of me. I'm getting weary of repeating myself. If that's what you like to do, by all means, carry on with it to your heart's content. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do ..... lol. I'm just telling you what I'm going to do. If some new and interesting viewpoint comes up on the subject that strikes my interest, I may jump back in, but right now it seems like the old season re-runs. Is that being a "thread nazi" (whatever that is).  :-\

Got you to respond, didnt I? 

BTW, thread nazi is a reference to the soup nazi episode of Seinfeld. No soup for you!

Good debate Doc.  ;D

[SteveB]

The thread and bill are about letting disabled use all ARCHERY equipment in the bow season.

Where did the "allow them guns in the bow season" come from?

Perhaps start a new thread for opinions if that is indeed an avenue one feels is needed and is passionate about - or not if it is just another attempted diversion.

[nyantler]

Don't stop now.. this is just starting to get interesting!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Oh come on Steve, you have to expect Doc to make some type of argument against the bill because there are crossbows involved. Might as well make it out like anyone that is for the bill somehow doesnt care about all disabled sportsmen, right? 

[NYDeer]

Just saw this post, and what a hot potato!

Although I support enhanced outdoor activities for the handicapped. I won't be contacting, the bill leaves the door too wide open for fraud. It doesn't help I've personally witnessed a teenager run from a store, hop over the side & into a new convertible mustang parked in the first handicapped spot. He topped it off by pulling the mirror tag & squealed tires while taking off like a rocket..  I wish I was as handicapped as him!