OK guy's Call your lawmakers

[G-Man]

Well doc you have to start somewhere and this bill is the start... it helps disabled hunters enter the bowhunting season and participate without specially modified equipment. If you want them to use a gun in BOW season your not making any sense, There is GUN season for guns, and the people that this bill is trying to create an archery opportunity for cannot physically draw a bow,don't have a problem holding a gun. You Should be suporting this bill and writhing letters to further expand it if thats what you feel is nessary.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thats the biggest load of crap yet.

BTW, I think my exact wording was "how are they going to raise or shoulder a gun?", not just shoulder, as you cherry picked. Ill bet money that firing a crossbow off of a bipod or tripod is a hell of alot easier than firing a handgun accurately with one hand. Again, this law is about archery equipment in archery season, not adding guns to archery season as you seem to be on board with.

Now see there you go getting all angry again. A load of crap?? . Well like I said before, for some this law is more about advancing crossbows than trying to do anything substantive to help the disabled. So I guess you know where I stand, and I know where you stand on that issue. I don't really have anything to add.

Nobody's angry, just calling things what they are.

We get it, you would rather see guns in bow season than crossbows.

[sits in trees]

Maybe you will understand the way Culver explained it, because I didnt sidestep anything, you just apparently didnt understand what I was saying.

Looks like sits got the half page diatribe he was looking for though. 

Well, rather than repeat it all, just read my reply to Culver. A lot of it is repeated stuff that nobody seems to want to address. I think you will see that I do understand exactly what you are saying. Basically you are saying and have been saying that if the disabled issue doesn't involve a crossbow, the heck with those that can't work within that new limit. I simply don't agree with that half-way measure.

As far as Sits is concerned ..... Lol, what can I say. He is kind of irrelevant to this discussion and non existant in any other topics. The only time he comes out of the woodwork is when there is a crossbow topic.... pretty much a "johnny one-note" element of back-ground noise that I have learned to ignore.  :

yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble on every single topic that no body even bothers reading anymore.

oh and for the rest of you good folks on this forum i apologize for opening the spicket to the endless dribble machine :'(  all i wanted to do is make everyone aware of this new bill, please disregard nonsense by Doc of this eventually having hunters walk the woods during bow season with rifles

[sits in trees]

If you open the door even a crack the abusers will always knock it right off the hinges. Sorry.

yea the damn woods will be a swarmin with cripples and their damn crossguns!!!

[sits in trees]

Well if the Romans used them then it must be ok......wait didn't they also stone people to death, fight to the death in an arena, and nail people to crosses as punishment?  Not quite sure I would use them as an example to further my agenda.

uuuhh, by geeze, this here a fella has a dern goood point, them thar Roman fellars were a nasty bunch a drunked up over sexed crossbow usin Eyetalians ;D . things a got much better once them thar Germanic barbarian tribes overthrew them Italians and took over all a Europe. and they didnt use them damn crossguns!!!!

sorry guy's but since we were on the subject of history...

[Doewhacker]

"yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble"

And how many forums do you post the same thing on?

[sits in trees]

"yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble"

And how many forums do you post the same thing on?

huh?

[Doewhacker]

"yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble"

And how many forums do you post the same thing on?

Nice try Wacker, i havent posted on any forum in months

yea right, :  You know when I googled the draw loc some of your older post's came up, you are a bonified internet sensation! lol

[sits in trees]

"yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble"

And how many forums do you post the same thing on?

Nice try Wacker, i havent posted on any forum in months

yea right, :  You know when I googled the draw loc some of your older post's came up, you are a bonified internet sensation! lol

huh? what does this have to do with the price of tea in Tibet?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

this sounds like a perfect tool for the physically challenged hunter...especialy since the bill seems to target those with back/arm problems, since the inability to draw a normal bow is the basis

[sits in trees]

yea and as far as the draw lock device is concerned the story remains the same, there is not a single vert bow manufacturer out there that reccomends the use of such a device on their bows and will void your warranty if any damage occurs when using such a device, DUUHHH looks like NYS kinda goofed on that one HUH? i have e-mails from Hoyt, PSE, Martin, Matthews technical departments stating that leaving their bows in the cocked position for extended periods of time with the use of such a device is "NOT Recommended", and will void your warranty.

[Doewhacker]

"yea Doc, atleast i don't spend hours typing pages upon pages upon pages of endless dribble"

And how many forums do you post the same thing on?

Nice try Wacker, i havent posted on any forum in months

yea right, :  You know when I googled the draw loc some of your older post's came up, you are a bonified internet sensation! lol

huh? what does this have to do with the price of tea in Tibet?

Ok let me slow it down for you, you made a joke about Doc posting pages of endless dribble and you are in fact guilty of the same offense as I noted you post the same exact crap on countless sites, at least in the past you have. Does that make sense to you?

[Doewhacker]

yea and as far as the draw lock device is concerned the story remains the same, there is not a single vert bow manufacturer out there that reccomends the use of such a device on their bows and will void your warranty if any damage occurs when using such a device, DUUHHH looks like NYS kinda goofed on that one HUH? i have e-mails from Hoyt, PSE, Martin, Matthews technical departments stating that leaving their bows in the cocked position for extended periods of time with the use of such a device is "NOT Recommended", and will void your warranty.

So what, if one is left with no other option it sounds pretty good.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

yea and as far as the draw lock device is concerned the story remains the same, there is not a single vert bow manufacturer out there that reccomends the use of such a device on their bows and will void your warranty if any damage occurs when using such a device, DUUHHH looks like NYS kinda goofed on that one HUH? i have e-mails from Hoyt, PSE, Martin, Matthews technical departments stating that leaving their bows in the cocked position for extended periods of time with the use of such a device is "NOT Recommended", and will void your warranty.

So what, if one is left with no other option it sounds pretty good.

If the bill passes they will have an option

[Doewhacker]

Yup, and when crossbows go full inclusion all of this time wasted on new legislation will have been wasted no? I guess in the age of right now, people do not want to wait any longer than they have too.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yup, and when crossbows go full inclusion all of this time wasted on new legislation will have been wasted no? I guess in the age of right now, people do not want to wait any longer than they have too.

I gotta disagree....not in the right now mentality...that I agree with. I just think a lot of folks with true physical challenges probably have waited for quite some time. I think most of us think full inclusion is coming but it isn't guaranteed and who knows when. This would fill the gap for the challenged....and to be honest ...from a selfish standpoint ...it was what I had said in my crossbow posts....I want my father to be bow hunting with me again. He would definitely fall in this category as would many other legitimate users. I will stick with my compound even if there is general inclusion but this step is needed IMO

[Doewhacker]

Well I agree with you on that side of it Culv, but at the same time guys are always squaking about to much legaslation on here all of the time too. Maybe if they drop some stupid law that we have on the books there would be room for a more sensable one like this, lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well I agree with you on that side of it Culv, but at the same time guys are always squaking about to much legaslation on here all of the time too. Maybe if they drop some stupid law that we have on the books there would be room for a more sensable one like this, lol

They won't quit making stup laws....they want us to feel like we need them (our elected officials that is)...lol

[sits in trees]

it's funny how the possibility of inclusion in any form just drives the anti crossbow/NYB guy's nutz. their reasons for not having crossbows in NY state become more outlandish every year as they wear out their old and tired reasons from the previous years.

we are already surrounded by states which have full inclusion and some have had it for decades with no ill effects at all. sad how even the idea of giving an older guy with arthritic shoulders a chance to hunt effectively during bow season again is just not acceptable to these wackos??

i love this new one especially about totally healthy hunters running to see their doctors in droves to get a disability note just to be able to hunt with a crossbow, "NOW REALLY", the excuses get lamer every year.

yes i said it before and i'm saying it again if you are against crossbow full inclusion or this current bill, your as low down and dirty as any other anti hunter out there.

[Doc]

We get it, you would rather see guns in bow season than crossbows.

For bonafide, certified, disabled hunters (registered and documented in any way that makes everyone confortable) that require that level of assistance only ...... I believe you really are starting to get it or at least pieces of it. Man that was a struggle for such a simple concept.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc,

If you say that is your true intention in your previous post I owe you an apology. Based on your posts on the other threads I was sure you were going down the line of ...Sure...why not open the bow season up to everyone with guns. I really think this is a great step forward for those that are challenged..a first step. Based on the efforts I have seen in my life of the physically challenged I think they should get any benefit we can afford them. If it is pistols as the only way to participate...I say sure why not

[Doc]

Doc,

If you say that is your true intention in your previous post I owe you an apology. Based on your posts on the other threads I was sure you were going down the line of ...Sure...why not open the bow season up to everyone with guns. I really think this is a great step forward for those that are challenged..a first step. Based on the efforts I have seen in my life of the physically challenged I think they should get any benefit we can afford them. If it is pistols as the only way to participate...I say sure why not

This thread is not about including anything in bow season for all hunters. At least that is not the way that I read that bill in the original post. My comments are limited to only those individuals who need assistance to participate in hunting. My thoughts are that it would be the right thing to do, and that the actual number of individuals involved would be relatively insignificant and completely transparent to other hunters and bow season harvest results. There is also an assumption that a system could be devised and enforced to eliminate fraud (important caveat). My opposition to the inclusion of anything other than a bow in bow seasons for able-bodied hunters remains unchanged.

Doc

[wztirem]

Doc,

If you say that is your true intention in your previous post I owe you an apology. Based on your posts on the other threads I was sure you were going down the line of ...Sure...why not open the bow season up to everyone with guns. I really think this is a great step forward for those that are challenged..a first step. Based on the efforts I have seen in my life of the physically challenged I think they should get any benefit we can afford them. If it is pistols as the only way to participate...I say sure why not

This thread is not about including anything in bow season for all hunters. At least that is not the way that I read that bill in the original post. My comments are limited to only those individuals who need assistance to participate in hunting. My thoughts are that it would be the right thing to do, and that the actual number of individuals involved would be relatively insignificant and completely transparent to other hunters and bow season harvest results. There is also an assumption that a system could be devised and enforced to eliminate fraud (important caveat). My opposition to the inclusion of anything other than a bow in bow seasons for able-bodied hunters remains unchanged.

Doc

Doc,

Your interpretation of the bill is correct. As far as enforcement to eliminate fraud is concerned, the State (DEC) being in such financial distress would be hard pressed to enforce the law as it is written considering the available resources.

As far as your stance regarding the inclusion of crossbows in bow season, your position is clear and I respect it. However,these days I can attribute such a position as tantamount to Crockett at the Alamo.

It is obvious that in the near future crossbows will be included in the regular bow season. As far as allowing handicapped individuals to hunt deer with firearms during bow season, that would be a mistake.

[nyantler]

[it is obvious that in the near future crossbows will be included in the regular bow season. As far as allowing handicapped individuals to hunt deer with firearms during bow season, that would be a mistake.]

Agreed

[Doc]

Lol.... I never said that anybody has to agree with it  . It's just reassuring to know that a few people actually understand what I was trying to say without going all crazy on me.

Relative to the enforcement, I admit that the DEC probably doesn't need more on their plate right now. However this is where someone smarter than me would have to work out the details. I would never say that it can't be done.

As far as firearms during the bow season, I must point out that we already have that with concurrent bow seasons, small game seasons, and turkey seasons. I think the scattered few extremely disabled people that would be added would be the proverbial "drop in the bucket". I would visualize the people allowed to use a handguns in bow season would be only those severely handicapped people who could use no other kind of weapon (Note: I'm starting to use the term "handgun" or "pistols" now because I am not sure that long-guns would actually be useful for those disabled to that extent). I think those numbers who are disabled to that extreme extent and coincidentally also want to hunt would be extremely insignificant numbers as compared to those that are already out there with firearms.

This is a rather new thought that has occurred to me with all the talk of disabled hunters, and perhaps I have not thought of all the details and difficulties involved. However, I don't think it is a notion that should be discounted just out of hand without a bit of consideration.

Anyway, it's just a thought that I figured I would throw out there since the bill in the original post seemed like a limited half-way, almost insincere, measure that left out a whole category of disabled folks in a truly practical sense. My belief is that if we are really serious about doing something for the disabled, it probably is not right to be thinking only in terms of the mildly disabled.